Ultimate Doom or Final Doom

Ultimate Doom and Final Doom are both kind of like add-ons for Doom I and Doom II. Which do you think is better? I'd have to say Final Doom is better because with it had a lot of variety and had some really good, memorable Doom II-style levels.

I just like them both for their own reasons, I can't really pick a favourite of the two, for I enjoy them both about the same.

Final DooM, because of Plutonia.

I don't really like any of them story wise - the stories they have suck.
Ultimate Doom: Ok, so you killed the Spider Mastermind and entered a portal back to Earth, but demons have overrun Earth - suddenly, you found yourself in this weird place (that looks nothing like something on Earth - rather like Hell) filled with hellspawn and after fighting through several hellish buildings like this, you kill another SM.

Where the Hell is the sense in all this!?

Final Doom, The Plutonia Experiment: Ok, so Earth has been ravaged by demons and nearly all of humanity was wiped out - and yet the UAC goes back to work on gateways and make SEVEN of them, despite all that has transpired - trying to make a device that can shut down the gates from afar. A gate opens a portal to Hell, but they shut down the gate, Hoo-ray, the next day ALL seven portals open and before they shut them all down, enough demons have made it through to overrun the base - d'oh!

Final Doom, Evilution: Same as above, Earth is nearly destroyed and the braindead officials of the UAC allow gateway experiments to be taken up again (they must still be zombies or something to do something as stupid as this). The marines are now so badass and skilled in dealing with demons that when the first gate opens a door to Hell they kick ass and wipe out the demons.

But then the demons suddenly arrive in a huge space ship of steel and flesh from the other side, yeah right there's just one problem that the story does not acount for: How the Hell did this spacecraft emerge in our dimension if it didn't come through a gate?
The only remotely logical explanation to this is that Hell is really a distant planet and that the demons are really fucking space aliens - BULLSHIT!
You probably all know my opinion on demons interpreted as space aliens, so I won't bore you with this.

As for the levels and gameplay: They're both mighty fine to me, although I am slightly annoyed with the first map in Ultimate Doom. Can't pick a favorite there.

I prefer Ultimate Doom. I liked Final Doom initially, but after more serious play it's flaws became obvious. I hate frustrating gameplay, and Plutonia especially has it in spades.

Evilution wasn't bad, a bit basic but OK. The final level sucked ass in a spectacular way though. The only way I was able to kill the fucking boss in the end was to switch autoaiming off. The rockets kept flying down and hitting the other bad guys, frequently blowing up in my face too. And the start with those random death teleports? Argh.

Plutonia is more interesting visually, but it feels rushed. There are tonnes more gameplay problems than Evilution and I doubt it was tested very well. It's fun and challenging sometimes but monitor through the window frustrating at others. I got pissed off and deleted it around MAP09.

I agree the stories of both suck too. Ultimate Doom's was sort of forgivable, but Final Doom's was outright tragic.

I never played Final Doom. And I have The Ultimate Doom. :)

Oh, and that living ship from evilution could have come through a lost gateway made years before by the demons themselves. They just now remember it. I dunno.

Ultimate Doom features 9 boring levels. They just look too dull to me. Final Doom is 'ok'. TNT is much better than Plutonia in just about everything. Visuals is the only point where Plutonia wins, IMO. TNT has some OK levels and some great music.

I think Final Doom is best, mainly because of TNT.

ravage said:

I never played Final Doom. And I have The Ultimate Doom. :)

Oh, and that living ship from evilution could have come through a lost gateway made years before by the demons themselves. They just now remember it. I dunno.

You'd have thought they'd mention it in the story, but nooo, plus it's a kinda cheap solution.

Oh yeah, and I forgot to mention the childish style in which the final Doom stories are written compared to the Doom and Doom 2 backstories.

Neither is really good.

Shaviro said:

Ultimate Doom features 9 boring levels.

Boring? Not really. Hard? Yes. I rather like the gothic, medieval theme of E4. It's kinda hard to get bored when the levels are difficult. It doesn't really fit in with the rest of Doom, but it's quite cool anyway.
Anyway, I think UDoom is probably the better of the two, it has a better storyline (not like the storyline, you know actually matters in a game where all you do is kill anyway) than TNT or Plutonia, and its gameplay is better balanced. TNT is pretty fair about difficulty most of the way through, except for those instant death teleports in the final level, Last Call. They could've left those out, and made the final level just a bit easier. Now Plutonia isn't balanced, oh no, not by a long shot. Why does water hurt, and nukage doesn't? Why does almost every single fucking level have around 4,000 revenants and 1,000 of every other demon in Doom? Not only that, the level design for Plutonia is boring (same old neutral colored blah textures), whereas for TNT it was pretty interesting, IMO.

DooMBoy said:

Uh, nine? I thought it was more like 36 levels.

He means it adds 9 new levels, not how many levels it offers after it is installed.

DooMBoy said:

Uh, nine? I thought it was more like 36 levels.

Stupidity cannot be concealed

(not like the storyline, you know actually matters in a game where all you do is kill anyway)

It may not matter to most people, but if you like to immerse yourself in a world, it needs at least a slight bit of story to it - Doom had enough of a story to actually "get into" the game - Doom 2 had *just* enough to at least let you know how bad the situation is.

And both Doom 1's and Doom 2's backstories and storylines (yes, they HAD storylines) suggested a lot of things, that fans like me can build a shitload upon.

If Doom had had no backstory and no scrolling text sequences and just featured those 27 or so maps with space station themes, corrupted space station themes and Hell themes, then I would have found the game cool to play, but a shitload would've been lost: I wouldn't be able to know that I was fighting demons (though I might be able to guess that), thus not being nearly as frightened or eager to slaughter them and I would generally just be damn confused (and annoyed), because I like to know what's going on.

"And the start with those random death teleports? Argh"

It's not random dude

Not random indeed. At the very start there is a line of colored torches against the wall. This is the clue to the order you must traverse the platforms without getting munched. (ie there are colored torches atop the platforms)

doom e4 is good.
evilution is so-so.
plutonia is really great.

Omg if you wanna good storyline go read a good book.
I really like both Ultimate Doom and Final Doom, it's just a question of degree. I prefer the challenge and variation of Final Doom more, especially Plutonia, the gameplay of Ultimate Doom is just a little bland in comparison.
Btw the PSX version of Final Doom really kicks, any views anyone?

I was pissed about how short the PSX version of Final Doom was...especially because I loved the atmosphere in it. It was rather sad. I also noted a blatant lack of barons of hell. I only found one level where there were several, located in a secret. Mancubi were also rare. But as I said, the atmosphere was wonderful, I think. I was rather sad that they didn't a.) make some levels that could fit the remainder of the PSX disc or b.) take some of the smaller levels from either PC Final Doom episode. Lastly, I didn't really like the level they chose to end PSX Final Doom...but other than that, I loved it.

...Though didn't anyone notice that on level 23, Ballistyx, that there was a secret exit you couldn't get to? But if you got to it in the PC version, it got you to Mt. Doom? I can't describe how many frustrating hours I spent trying to get at that, hoping it was possible. :\

Ultimate Doom added 9 really great maps; Final Doom added 64 maps that were mostly pretty good, and quite a few of them masterpieces.

However, at the time I bought Ultimate Doom, I only had the shareware Doom 1, so it also featured 18 further maps (OK, but nothing too special) that I hadn't seen before.

So I guess I'd say that overall I prefer Final Doom, but it's a bit academic, since they are both must-haves.

Plutonia vs Evilution? I have to go for Plutonia (better gameplay and challenge), even if to start with (read: for several years) I found it much too difficult.

As for storyline, I can't say I ever really noticed it or cared about it. I liked the original Alien Vendetta story though; that rocked ;)

stphrz said:

Not random indeed. At the very start there is a line of colored torches against the wall. This is the clue to the order you must traverse the platforms without getting munched. (ie there are colored torches atop the platforms)

I stand corrected - I missed that completely. I thought the assortment of torch colours was odd but I didn't click that it might be a clue. The final battle still sucked ass though.

magikal said:

Omg if you wanna good storyline go read a good book.

Omg, you can't play a book, dumbass.

dsm said:

Omg, you can't play a book, dumbass.

LIES ALL LIES :D

Ultimate Doom, plus E4 is soo good.

dsm said:

Omg, you can't play a book, dumbass.

Of course not, that's why I typed read shortsite.

Well if the book was a gamebook (like the lone wolf or fighting fantasy series books) then yes you could play it :p

Heh.

Ultimate Doom is 9 levels. Final Doom is 64.

Ultimate Doom is for Doom. Final Doom is for Doom II.

It's really hard to compare them and say which one is better, especially since they were made so far apart.

I like E4 the most of all the Doom levels (don't ask me why), and if I was to pick between TNT and Plutonia, I'd say Plutonia. Mostly because the last level of TNT was dumb (you shoot the nose??) and Plutonia is much harder and more interesting. TNT is level upon level of shotgun guy and chaingun guy. Of course, Plutonia is level upon level of everything else. =P

Plutonia is much more fun for coop. TNT doesn't get interesting until "Heck."

JoelMurdoch said:

Plutonia is more interesting visually, but it feels rushed. There are tonnes more gameplay problems than Evilution and I doubt it was tested very well. It's fun and challenging sometimes but monitor through the window frustrating at others. I got pissed off and deleted it around MAP09.

A bit of Plutonia story:
Dario and Milo Casali made the maps single handedly after either dario or Mile sent some maps to someone at id and they asked if they could make a megawad in 4 months.. well they did it, and Plutonia is the result.

Personally I find Plutonia to be a damn fine wad. Although I only played it through once in SP and once in Coop.

magikal said:

Of course not, that's why I typed read shortsite.

Then you have missed the point duder.
Books: You read books to immerse yourself in a story.
Games: You play games to either just do something that's fun (like you do) or to do something that's fun AND immerse yourself in the game world in a much higher degree than you would ever be able to immerse yourself in a book.

Do you get it now or do I have to cut it out for you?

dsm said:

Then you have missed the point duder.
Books: You read books to immerse yourself in a story.
Games: You play games to either just do something that's fun (like you do) or to do something that's fun AND immerse yourself in the game world in a much higher degree than you would ever be able to immerse yourself in a book.

Do you get it now or do I have to cut it out for you?

I got the point much earlier than you realised and yes please, cut it out.;)

magikal said:

I got the point much earlier than you realised and yes please, cut it out.;)

If you got the point so early, how come you have the opinion that I should go and read books instead of complaining about stories in games? (I DO read books - that's all the more the reason why I like a good story in a game).

I don't demand a shitload of a game's story - it should be clear that a backstory like the one in Doom (which is filled with holes) is more than enough to satisfy my needs.
What I do demand of a game's story is some consistency and some ideas that make at least remotely sense. If things don't immediately make sense, they should be explained at some point in the story. Otherwise I won't be able to immerse myself in the game world, because then they could just as well have left the story out completely, and if I can't immerse myself in the game world, I'll lose out on a lot of the fun.

People are different dude. Some play games just because it's plain fun to e.g. run around shooting pixels. Some also like it because there's a greater level of immersion than there is in a book (and this is only in games with at least a half-decent backstory to it). In a book, you're forced to try and imagine things from the main character's point of view - you don't need that in most games because there YOU are the main character- But this doesn't work at all if there's no plot of some sort. There has to be some sort of purpose or reason for the situation in the game.

I rarely play Final Doom or Ultimate Doom, because I simply can't immerse myself in them (due to the fact that I just can't take the backtory serious). It's just a shitload of largely meaningless levels to me, whereas whenever I play Doom or Doom 2, I try to actually tell the tale and to BE the doomguy.

Now, I apologize for my rude behaviour, but I really tend to get pissed when I post my opinion on something and some "smarty-pants" shows up and acts like I'm fucking retarded in my opinions.

Well, both are worth paying for, and both where worth finishing (several times over in my case). I guess in terms of value for money, final doom has 64 maps where as the Ultimate Doom has only 36 (including the doom 1 maps) I liked Thy Flesh Consumed.

And the Ultimate Doom episode story made perfect sense. At the end of episode 3, the text talks about a portal opens up, you go through and return to earth. I believe the last few words where "it's a good thing that no hell spawn could have come through the portal with you..." before pans to a burning city.
Obviously, some hell spawn did. So you sort of "mop up" the ones that came through.
It actually makes more sense that episode 4 is there. After all, doom 2 is supposed to be set a year after the first doom.
And yes, the final doom story sucks.

And for the record, TNT was set before Plutonia.