This does not feel like a Doom game

2 minutes ago, D88M3R said:

Lot of stuff is out of place cuz i said so.

"its not in the original therefore it's out of place and not Doom"

I knew your trend will continue after release

4 hours ago, jamondemarnatural said:

Everyone happy on everywebsite, Doomworld have only negative topics because it's not like Doom 2

Just checked a few Steam reviews. Some people are moaning due to Eternal being different, aka "this game isn't c1@551c d00m". Others are lamenting about Bethesda.net.

Heck, the most popular Steam review right now is a Not Recommended one.

So DW isn't the only place that has someone complaining about new Doom games.

1 hour ago, D88M3R said:

 to me is really weird and interesting than the original games got so much stuff right that 25 years later so many games dont even come close in terms of gameplay quality.

Got those Nostalgia glasses tight there buddy.

I think the only real objectively bad thing to say about Eternal is the Bethasda Launcher nonsense, but that has more to do with BugTheshda than the iD

It's not Doom, for sure. I wanna jump into vehicle to kill these bitches, without routine with glorykills after two goddamn shots! Because it's not Doom and basically not FPS game too, vehicles must be good idea. And killstreaks. Hugo, plz!

7 minutes ago, qdash said:

It's not Doom, for sure. 

7 minutes ago, qdash said:

and basically not FPS game too, 

yeah its obviously Starcraft 3 RTS...

I Can't believe someone can be so wrong in a single post.

4 minutes ago, jazzmaster9 said:

 

yeah its obviously Starcraft 3 RTS...

 

I Can't believe someone can be so wrong in a single post.

It feels like slasher with guns, not FPS game.

This is going from gameplay footage, but I don't like what I've seen of the platforming and jumping puzzles.

I mean, in DE, there are obviously floating platforms that look like generic game floating platforms purpose-built, rather than the natural rocky outcrops they were in Doom 2016. And for comparison, the various ledges in Doom 2016's Argent Tower didn't feel like they were there as a jumping puzzle, but that you were climbing up a vast powerful machine.

Then there are the bright green question marks. Is this Mario or what?

Lastly, and I cringed when I saw them, were the slowly rotating burning chains in your path. Sorry, but Doom NEVER needed that kind of crap, and it feels more at home in a Mario game, so why push them here?

The thing is, after years of cutesy console games on my Commodore Amiga and what I've seen of Mario on the NES/SNES, I just wanted to get away from that kind of nonsense intended for little kids. And now I discover that such bullcrap has contaminated Doom! What were you thinking, Hugo Martin!?!

17 minutes ago, qdash said:

 

It feels like slasher with guns, not FPS game.

what YOU think it feels like and what it actually is are two different things.

Its an FPS get over it.

14 minutes ago, Foebane72 said:

Mario = Bad.

I'm A Real man Gamer

 

Oh no, what happened to my Manly game? my manhood is in serious jeopardy.

Where's all the girtty and realistic atmosphere of Call of Duty and Battlefield? I want I.E.Ds exploding in suburban areas killing civialians and realistic cover based combat... 

sorry to tell you that Doom isn't just confined to what existed in Doom 1 and 2. Its like talking to a brick wall at this point

And those NES games for "little kids" are harder than most AAA games today you play today, they are actually games and not movies;

2 minutes ago, jazzmaster9 said:

Oh no, what happened to my Manly game? my manhood is in serious jeopardy.

Where's all the girtty and realistic atmosphere of Call of Duty and Battlefield? I want I.E.Ds exploding in suburban areas and realistic cover based combat... 

 

sorry to tell you that Doom isn't just confined to what existed in Doom 1 and 2. Its like talking to a brick wall at this point

Why are you assuming I like "realistic" games like those you mention? I can't f--king stand CoD. I always preferred fantasy or sci-fi FPS games, just so you know.

Doom's action, violence and gore, after those endless cutesy kids' games, was just the impetus I needed to carry on gaming in 1994 onwards.

2 minutes ago, Foebane72 said:

after those endless cutesy kids' games, was just the impetus I needed to carry on gaming in 1994 onwards.

yeah because Battletoads and Contra are intended for Kids. Get over yourself...

Not everything needs to be gritty and manly.

Again, Sorry to tell you that Doom isn't just confined to what existed in Doom 1 and 2.

6 hours ago, jazzmaster9 said:

but the games DOES need to evolve, Just because it didn't evolve the way you wanted does make the mechanics bad or diluted.

 

The added mechanics really give more depth to what might have been another shoot it until it dies game that Doom 2016 was, most of them are optional as well so it's not like your are forced to use all the upgrafes

First of all, it really doesn't need to evolve as much as people like to say. Lots of people play games that barely innovate and innovation for its own sake is not a requirement nor even always a plus.Jjust a little spicing up of the old shooter mechanics would've been fine for most people. In my opinion, Doom 4 could've done about half of what it did to add to the base of Doom and it would've been fine (I can't say I've ever seen people point out how great all the millions of upgrade systems are), and Doom Eternal could've added just a bit to that, like if Doom 4 only had weapon upgrades and Eternal added suit upgrades. I'm 100% sure people wouldn't have gone all "Oh, this is so basic and boring, this game has not evolved!".

And second, I do absolutely think this evolved in a way that makes the core mechanics diluted and obscures them under layers of bullshit. I guess since it works for many people it's purely a taste thing and can't be claimed to be any sort of objective quality of the game's design, but damn does it feel like it is. These new mechanics and cooldowns feel to me as out of place in Doom as if I had to press two buttons regularly to make Doomguy breathe manually. Or if I had to separately control his two legs to move. That would sure be an evolution of the genre and make it even more of a "thinking man's FPS"! :D

3 minutes ago, Antroid said:

...as if I had to press two buttons regularly to make Doomguy breathe manually. Or if I had to separately control his two legs to move. That would sure be an evolution of the genre and make it even more of a "thinking man's FPS"! :D

Well thank god the added mechanics feels nothing like that. there are RPGs in the early 90s more complex than whats in DE.

Just now, jazzmaster9 said:

Well thank god the added mechanics feels nothing like this.

That's just, like, your opinion, man.

To me they're exactly like that. You need to regularly perform the various different abilities to keep the flow of resources without which you will just die. Even if it's just having to chainsaw someone every five seconds to have ammo again. That's pretty much the same as pressing buttons to pour oxygen down your body.

But with reactions like this to someone saying Mario 1 firebars are maybe out of place in Doom...

12 minutes ago, jazzmaster9 said:

Oh no, what happened to my Manly game? my manhood is in serious jeopardy.

Where's all the girtty and realistic atmosphere of Call of Duty and Battlefield? I want I.E.Ds exploding in suburban areas killing civialians and realistic cover based combat...

I'm not sure you can understand anything outside two opposite extremes of "everything about this game is great! You can not claim that anything in this game is objectively badly designed because I say so!" (which seems to be your position, excluding the bethesda account stuff) and "everything about this game sucks, I hate it because I'm such a hater" (which seems to be how you think everyone who criticizes this game is).

15 minutes ago, jazzmaster9 said:

sorry to tell you that Doom isn't just confined to what existed in Doom 1 and 2.

7 minutes ago, jazzmaster9 said:

Again, Sorry to tell you that Doom isn't just confined to what existed in Doom 1 and 2.

What the hell are you blathering on about now? I never even mentioned that, I was talking about cutesy games!

I already stated I love Doom 3 and like 2016, so why you're repeating the above again, I do not know.

15 minutes ago, jazzmaster9 said:

what YOU think it feels like and what it actually is are two different things.

Its an FPS get over it.

Plus ETERNAL progression like it's goddamn Diablo or something! It's too much, dude!

6 minutes ago, Antroid said:

But with reactions like this to someone saying Mario 1 firebars are maybe out of place in Doom...

I'm not sure you can understand anything outside two opposite extremes of "everything about this game is great! You can not claim that anything in this game is objectively badly designed because I say so!" (which seems to be your position, excluding the bethesda account stuff) and "everything about this game sucks, I hate it because I'm such a hater" (which seems to be how you think everyone who criticizes this game is).

No i can undertand the gray area just fine.

If you notice most of the criticism i reply to are along the lines of "I don't like it there for it's not Doom"

I don't see anything about platforming and Booby traps that makes it less of a Doom game...

2 minutes ago, qdash said:

 

Plus ETERNAL progression like it's goddamn Diablo or something! It's too much, dude!

It really isn't

At its core, you shoot demons and avoid getting shot.

4 minutes ago, Foebane72 said:

What the hell are you blathering on about now? I never even mentioned that, I was talking about cutesy games!

You talk about "cutesy" games as if they have no gameplay value and therefore is not worthy of being included in Doom, cuz "Its NES"

1 minute ago, jazzmaster9 said:

If you notice most of the criticism i reply to are along the lines of "I don't like it there for it's not Doom"

Don't you think you're doing that just a bit too much? I for one would Ignore you if I knew how, just so I don't see that dreaded lime-green avatar again.

2 minutes ago, Foebane72 said:

 

Don't you think you're doing that just a bit too much?

you mean how you insert yourself into every Doom Eternal thread nitpicking everything thats "not doom", oh the irony

I'll gladly change it to a blue avatar if you like.

3 minutes ago, jazzmaster9 said:

You talk about "cutesy" games as if they have no gameplay value and therefore is not worthy of being included in Doom, cuz "Its NES"

Well, John Romero and John Carmack basically CREATED Doom, and they didn't include it from the start, so obviously they thought the same.

Time passes, then this "Hugo Martin" character comes along and undoes what they did. What makes HIM the new John Romero, eh?

1 minute ago, jazzmaster9 said:

If you notice most of the criticism i reply to are along the lines of "I don't like it there for it's not Doom"

I don't see anything about platforming and Booby traps that makes it less of a Doom game...

Would you accept anything they could possibly add to the game as fitting a doom game? Or is there a line?

And either way, just because you think that half a dozen WoW-style abilities with cooldowns are somehow not out of place in Doom, and neither are Mario firebars, doesn't make it an invalid opinion to say that they are. Should I just perpetually keep replying to you and people who agree with you saying that "just because you think it fits a Doom game, doesn't actually mean it does"? This could be ping-ponged back and forth forever.

Just now, Foebane72 said:

 

Well, John Romero and John Carmack basically CREATED Doom, and they didn't include it from the start, so obviously they thought the same.

 

Time passes, then this "Hugo Martin" character comes along and undoes what they did. What makes HIM the new John Romero, eh?

 

John Romero and John Carmack created Doom 1-2 and Final Doom

Hugo Martin created Doom 2016 and Eternal

doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out.

2 minutes ago, jazzmaster9 said:

I'll gladly change it to a blue avatar if you like.

No, I mean I'd happily Ignore you just so I don't see you pounce on every single slightly negatory comment like a housefly attracted to meat.

9 minutes ago, Antroid said:

Would you accept anything they could possibly add to the game as fitting a doom game? Or is there a line?

 

And either way, just because you think that half a dozen WoW-style abilities with cooldowns are somehow not out of place in Doom, and neither are Mario firebars, doesn't make it an invalid opinion to say that they are. Should I just perpetually keep replying to you and people who agree with you saying that "just because you think it fits a Doom game, doesn't actually mean it does"? This could be ping-ponged back and forth forever.

Well i don't see my view as objectively correct.

I mean objectively speaking, what IS wrong with platforming and Traps in an FPS game though?

But since i feel this is going to be an endless back and forth, I will bow out of this, since no ones minds are going to change anytime soon. Doom Eternal did just come out yesterday so only time will tell.

8 minutes ago, jazzmaster9 said:

Well i don't see my view as objectively correct.

 

I mean objectively speaking, what IS wrong with platforming and Traps in an FPS game though?

I like platforming and traps in an FPS game. One of the things everyone (well, many people) complains about that I don't mind is the platforming or parkour. I just think that firebars are way too goofy even for a goofier Doom that these revival titles already are. What next, podoboos? And I know they're actually chains on fire, but they look like goddamn firebars. I would prefer timing challenges within platforming if it was something more natural-seeming, like dripping lava or toxic waste, steam coming from a pipe turning on and off, electrical discharges, machinery like something from Doom 3 that was constantly moving and could create believable obstacles.

The firebars just don't fit thematically, IMO. I think it's kind of crazy to think back to the original dooms and imagine that traps like crushing ceilings from those games would evolve not towards a Doom 3 style believability but towards a Mario style "who gives a fuck" goofy abstraction. I guess it all must stem from how each of us perceived the original Dooms in the first place, so different evolution directions seem appropriate to different people?

Honestly though, compared to all the cooldown abilities stuff, the firebars I hardly even notice.

9 minutes ago, Foebane72 said:

 

No, I mean I'd happily Ignore you just so I don't see you pounce on every single slightly negatory comment like a housefly attracted to meat.

 

hover over my name, then click ignore user.

So far honestly. I've liked what I've seen. My friend livestreamed it to me on Discord and I'm really digging the classic colorations for the demons. The platforms look like something that'd probably bother me at first, but it wasn't as if the original Doom games didn't try to do some form of "platforming" e.g. in E3M1 you have to run across a platform lowering into blood that damages you or in MAP15 of Doom 2 you had to make a precise jump to get to an important switch that leads you to the secret exit to MAP31. If anything I think they would've had more platforming if the original Doom engine had more time in general to be developed. Maybe not to the extent we see nowadays, but still.

What I was really grateful for though is that we finally see way more colors and variety in environments than we did in Doom 2016. For the most part in Doom 2016 it was a lot like Doom 3, Martian environments, tech bases, and Hell. (But don't quote me on this because it's been a few years since I played through '16 and I only played through it once, and even I admit I need to play through it a few more times) But with Doom Eternal we're starting to see a nice variety of earth environments, including ones we didn't see in Doom 2, Master Levels, or Final Doom, such as arctic environments.

I don't have the money right now to purchase it, but if I do in the future, I will at least wait until a price drop and then get it.

16 minutes ago, Foebane72 said:

 

Well, John Romero and John Carmack basically CREATED Doom, and they didn't include it from the start, so obviously they thought the same.

 

Time passes, then this "Hugo Martin" character comes along and undoes what they did. What makes HIM the new John Romero, eh?

 

Except he didn't undo nothing that carmack and romero did, doom 1 and 2 still exist and the new people at id software are very aware of that.

Seriously man you act like if the people behind new doom killed your dog or something.

I feel shades of a Touhou bullet hell style of game.  They really want to push you into a specific style of play, it's a necessity to hit the weak spots in the early game so far(For me at least on Nightmare), and you really have to use every resource available. This is everything they said it would be so no surprise here for me personally. I do wish that there were more labyrinth style stages. The in-game lore is a bit convoluted in spots. I'm having fun, but I've seen some people on stream say yawn while reading it. I like the universe they crafted, but simplify it just a notch. Have more comic book fun, than LOTR if you gotta get people to read, especially knowing they'll be on stream. I respect that they shot for the stars.

Whether it's a "classic" doom experience IDK, or care. Feels different than any shooter I've seen out there on the market and I'm having a fucking good time.

Feels like Doom to me? 

2 hours ago, Foebane72 said:

 

Don't you think you're doing that just a bit too much? I for one would Ignore you if I knew how, just so I don't see that dreaded lime-green avatar again.

 

Don't press ignore on this Jazzmaster guy. This one is one of those collective echo chamber fan boys who can see no wrong with anything labeled Doom and is hardwired to glorify Bethesda ID's work. Use this every time they speak any varient of "I don't like it therefore it's not Doom," response since they want to silence all opposition to this game.