This does not feel like a Doom game

inb4

John Romero made Daikatana so he doesn't know what real Doom is, this is an objectively bad game. FACT.

Honestly I don't mind if a property changes things up a bit. Doom 3 may be a weird black sheep, but as a game it's still a very solid alternate take on the same core premise. I don't want, say, Quake to suddenly become a multidimensional skateboarding career simulator or something, but it's like saying Quake 2 and 4 aren't Quake games because they're objective-driven and have Strogg instead of whatever the hell the devs felt like that day. Eternal's going to take some adjusting and replays to get its full value for me, but the fact that it's "not Doom" because of your personal dislikes for how the game was handed is simply that - your personal opinion.

On 3/22/2020 at 10:21 AM, Eurisko said:

After finally pulling myself away from Doom 64 I’ve played a good portion of Eternal.

 

The game looks fabulous and runs wonderfully. 
However, I’m finding it hard to get to grips with the jugging of the mounted cannon, shooting and the chainsaw to get different item drops.

I find my self quite literally legging it from certain enemies in order to find an imp or a zombie to slice up to get some ammo , a lot.
The same applies for health. 

The Doom Slayer who has just literally been to hell and back is VERY weak to the slightest attack. The balance seems well off. I don’t ever remember think this for Doom (2016)
Does this improve as you level the Slayer up? Anyone else feel the same?
 

 

After getting further into the game ,the git gud mentality is kinda what you've gotta do. However after levelling up your slayer and especially extending your ammo cap your given a much better chance at being able to "Git Gud"

I've got to grips with things now but as I've read in other threads the the initial ammo amount and what's thrown at you is a tough amount to deal with. I've never had so much trouble Arachnotrons.

It's kind of a shame that they didn't pull a Witcher and allow you to backport the player mods that Eternal shares from 2016 to give you a headstart from a savegame. It's kind of immersion breaking to go from weak at the beginning of 2016 (he was out of action for a while after all since Doom 64) to very powerful at the end of 2016...to being weak again at the beginning of Eternal. Keep in mind I haven't played it yet and won't be for a long time so I have no idea how Eternal actually begins to explain or justify why you're back at square one (besides gameplay balancing reasons). It even seems like they expect you to warm up from 2016 since the difficulty effectively carries over to the next game off the bat, but that kind of falls apart if you go from wasting the Spiderdemon to getting wasted by lowly zombies again. I guess I'm looking too deep into things, but still!

5 minutes ago, Lila Feuer said:

how Eternal actually begins to explain or justify why you're back at square one

Hyaden teleports you somewhere at the end of Doom 2016. That makes sense to have nothing but a shotgun in the game.

On 3/21/2020 at 11:43 AM, Phobos Anomaly said:

This is not Classic Doom. And that is precisely what I didn't want it to be. If I wanted classic doom, I'd play classic doom. It has evolved the formula while staying true to the spirit. D16 and DE play unlike any game I've ever played, they are a new kind of shooter that feels like an extension of twitch/arena shooters. They manage to feel completely new while also feeling comfortingly old. That is what I love about this new id Software and their games.

Hear hear!

ID has always been a company about innovative gameplay. The "spirit" of Doom is not a plodding corridor shooter stripped back to the barest of functionality which is how it would feel now to new players. It has always been a series about pushing the boundaries in every possible way. Now ID is free to do whatever it likes and take it in a direction.

This feels like "Doom". Heck, it even feels like Doom 2. But if you want a verbatim copy-paste of Doom 2 into a 3D engine, you'll be very disappointed by how shit that would work. Go ahead and try it in Unity or Unreal, it would be dogshit.

I haven't played Eternal but saying it "doesn't feel like a Doom game" is one of the weirdest criticisms of a game you could give. You can't expect every game in the franchise to be the exact same formula, otherwise it would get boring (or at the least unoriginal) relatively quickly (look at Call of Duty). I understand if you don't like it, but you should try to view the game as if it were it's own standalone game and how you enjoy it in that sense before you compare it to the others. Super Mario Bros 2 doesn't feel like a Mario game, but many people will tell you it's still a good game.

Honestly, i think the only way for a "modern" and "official" Doom game to feel closer to the classics is if it was a retro/Sonic Mania type throwback game with an old school looking engine or something with a cartoonish/simpler art style instead of the "over detail/so many polygons" stuff they have in the new games.

Think of the indie game Prodeus or Quake mods like Your Path Of Destruction or Slayer's Testaments.

Like, you need to have a good art style and "game feel" and an engine that can support traditional enemy placement and staying corpses, but also stuff like weak spots or even Doom 3 stuff like the interactive screens, mirrors and lightning (not that dark, though) like a perfect engine that can do almost anything.

A perfect Doom game that can play like a really polished Megawad/TC but at times also represents the 2016/Eternal/Slayer Gate style arena fights and some Doom 3 horror, since Doom is both action/horror/puzzle/exploration/etc.

Something that also has a premise like that of MetaDoom or MiniDoom 2, so it takes so much from the series (even cut concepts and obscure stuff) and maybe adds something new whether or not it even comes from some mods or something else.

All the levels and environments, the enemies, weapons, items, mechanics, so much combining so many things you can't even go "i wish they'd bring that thing though" without seeing it's there, like a certain prop or something.

A game that would have to be so big and have so much more, i just think we're not ready for the "ultimate" Doom game.

Something that not even a fangame or mod can pull off.

I keep suggesting ridiculous stuff but i know i'm not the only one.

21 minutes ago, croc_rock said:

I haven't played Eternal but saying it "doesn't feel like a Doom game" is one of the weirdest criticisms of a game you could give. You can't expect every game in the franchise to be the exact same formula, otherwise it would get boring (or at the least unoriginal) relatively quickly (look at Call of Duty). I understand if you don't like it, but you should try to view the game as if it were it's own standalone game and how you enjoy it in that sense before you compare it to the others. Super Mario Bros 2 doesn't feel like a Mario game, but many people will tell you it's still a good game.

Well, that's kind of the thing then isn't it. It's kind of hard to truly hammer down the point of how unusually different the game feels unless you've really played it for yourself. That jarring feeling was something that never even remotely registered from any of the pre-release footage I saw prior to experiencing it first hand.

I have never considered myself a "purist" by the typical metrics of the Doom community. I like the original games, I like Doom 3, I like Brutal Doom, I like 2016, etc etc. I find them all highly enjoyable for their own reasons. I even love everything about Eternal, except the core moment to moment gameplay which kind of renders all the positives moot. The game now feels like a repeating sequence of extremely hard pivots with how the game explicitly funnels you into very specific different behaviors/activities during combat in a way that does not feel very fluid/organic. This is just aggravating to me and I never felt this way about any of the previous Doom games ever.

3 minutes ago, lazygecko said:

 

Well, that's kind of the thing then isn't it. It's kind of hard to truly hammer down the point of how unusually different the game feels unless you've really played it for yourself. That jarring feeling was something that never even remotely registered from any of the pre-release footage I saw prior to experiencing it first hand.

 

I have never considered myself a "purist" by the typical metrics of the Doom community. I like the original games, I like Doom 3, I like Brutal Doom, I like 2016, etc etc. I find them all highly enjoyable for their own reasons. I even love everything about Eternal, except the core moment to moment gameplay which kind of renders all the positives moot. The game now feels like a repeating sequence of extremely hard pivots with how the game explicitly funnels you into very specific different behaviors/activities during combat in a way that does not feel very fluid/organic. This is just aggravating to me and I never felt this way about any of the previous Doom games ever.

Please excuse me, me very dumb have caveman brain forget to read op

48 minutes ago, Duke of Pathoris said:

ID has always been a company about innovative gameplay. The "spirit" of Doom is not a plodding corridor shooter stripped back to the barest of functionality which is how it would feel now to new players.

Imma let you finish, but anyone who pays OG Doom and thinks of it as a “plodding corridor shooter stripped back to the barest of functionality” then they have garbage taste.

I get what you’re saying and agree that it’s better to try new things than remain stagnant, but this is one of multiple times I’ve seen a defense of questionable design choices in Eternal using the “Classic Doom is boring now, had to change it all up” type of line and it’s starting to stick in my craw..

43 minutes ago, Doomkid said:

Imma let you finish, but anyone who pays OG Doom and thinks of it as a “plodding corridor shooter stripped back to the barest of functionality” then they have garbage taste.

 

I get what you’re saying and agree that it’s better to try new things than remain stagnant, but this is one of multiple times I’ve seen a defense of questionable design choices in Eternal using the “Classic Doom is boring now, had to change it all up” type of line and it’s starting to stick in my craw..

Agreed. The need to feel to innovate on an already proven and solid formula that a number of people happen to already enjoy isn't always unreasonable, but if done improperly and you experiment too much then yeah you risk damaging what's already in place that did work.

2 hours ago, Doomkid said:

Imma let you finish, but anyone who pays OG Doom and thinks of it as a “plodding corridor shooter stripped back to the barest of functionality” then they have garbage taste.

It's not exactly plodding. That wasn't the best word to use.

On 3/23/2020 at 7:04 PM, The Doommer said:

Why exactly?

Because I'm sick of action games that include upgrade systems and RPG elements. Also, the ammo piñata stuff is lame.

I've thought a bit about it and this is what would've had to be different about DE to feel more like a Doom game to me. But it's based very much on my personal view of the original Dooms, which as we've established varies greatly between people.

• Level layouts: stop locking me in arenas with forcefields or doors, make levels more nonlinear.
• Mechanics: remove all the monster pinata mechanics and just put more pickups in the levels. Health and armor pickups are already 1000 times more useful than they were in 2016 (where they barely gave you anything on Nightmare). I could rely on them alone if the fights were more spread across the level instead of being pretty much long sessions in each arena. Also, remove or minimize upgrading so that the player isn't pathetically underpowered in the beginning and doesn't grow stronger ahead of the monsters, which essentially makes you have to put less and less care into combat as the game progresses, because your upgrades outpace the difficulty.
• Lore: stop explaining things about how Hell works, giving it concrete lore, structure and history, and making the demons afraid of Doomguy. Hell should be an eldritch unexplainable dimension of evil that can't be halted by killing three priests or observed working in predictable patterns. Hell, both as a place and as a force, should remain oppressive.
• Style: dial down the gaminess just a tad, remove the 1-ups, dash refills, cosmetics and all that trash.

I absolutely disagree that a competently made game like that, especially with the sheer quality of the new Dooms - the graphics, the animations, the combat physics, the effects, the music - wouldn't be extremely successful today.

13 hours ago, lazygecko said:

 

I have never considered myself a "purist" by the typical metrics of the Doom community. I like the original games, I like Doom 3, I like Brutal Doom, I like 2016, etc etc. I find them all highly enjoyable for their own reasons. I even love everything about Eternal, except the core moment to moment gameplay which kind of renders all the positives moot. The game now feels like a repeating sequence of extremely hard pivots with how the game explicitly funnels you into very specific different behaviors/activities during combat in a way that does not feel very fluid/organic. This is just aggravating to me and I never felt this way about any of the previous Doom games ever.

That sounds exactly like old Doom tho. You can't just fire rockets in your face, you'll die. You can't just main the plasma rifle, you won't have ammo. There's an optimal play style.

Being able to basically main any gun was a weird 2016 quirk.

5 hours ago, Antroid said:

make levels more nonlinear

Your mission in this game is to kill all the demons. So, this is not a very correct point.

6 hours ago, JBerg said:

action games that include upgrade systems and RPG elements

If you want a game that gives you all the weapons and upgrades from the start, you might not even want to try the OG Doom.

5 hours ago, Antroid said:

just put more pickups in the levels

Two words for this: Git gud.

5 hours ago, Antroid said:

stop explaining things about how Hell works, giving it concrete lore, structure and history, and making the demons afraid of Doomguy.

If you played Eternal, you'd understand that because Slayer is fucking immortal (game deaths aren't canon obviously) and is filled with pure hatred of the demons, so they shit themselves upon seeing him.

Second, lore is optional in the game, you hate it, don't read the codex.

5 hours ago, Antroid said:

an eldritch unexplainable dimension of evil that can't be halted by killing three priests

Hell isn't stopped by the death of the priests. The invasion of Earth is stopped and the Khan Makyr resurrects Icon of Sin and sends him to Earth. So, hell isn't stopped at that point.

Again, you don't understand the lore here.

5 hours ago, Antroid said:

remove the 1-ups, dash refills, cosmetics and all that trash.

Sometimes, you won't need a dash refill and you can do some perfect movements (I tried and made it, believe me). But on some levels be my guest and try to dash without dash refills and fall to your death.

5 hours ago, Antroid said:

I've thought a bit about it and this is what would've had to be different about DE to feel more like a Doom game to me. But it's based very much on my personal view of the original Dooms, which as we've established varies greatly between people.

• Level layouts: stop locking me in arenas with forcefields or doors, make levels more nonlinear.
• Mechanics: remove all the monster pinata mechanics and just put more pickups in the levels. Health and armor pickups are already 1000 times more useful than they were in 2016 (where they barely gave you anything on Nightmare). I could rely on them alone if the fights were more spread across the level instead of being pretty much long sessions in each arena. Also, remove or minimize upgrading so that the player isn't pathetically underpowered in the beginning and doesn't grow stronger ahead of the monsters, which essentially makes you have to put less and less care into combat as the game progresses, because your upgrades outpace the difficulty.
• Lore: stop explaining things about how Hell works, giving it concrete lore, structure and history, and making the demons afraid of Doomguy. Hell should be an eldritch unexplainable dimension of evil that can't be halted by killing three priests or observed working in predictable patterns. Hell, both as a place and as a force, should remain oppressive.
• Style: dial down the gaminess just a tad, remove the 1-ups, dash refills, cosmetics and all that trash.

I absolutely disagree that a competently made game like that, especially with the sheer quality of the new Dooms - the graphics, the animations, the combat physics, the effects, the music - wouldn't be extremely successful today.

So just strip away everything and make it OG Doom with modern graphics. Got it. 

Wow, way to miss the whole point of everything.

14 minutes ago, The Doommer said:

Your mission in this game is to kill all the demons. So, this is not a very correct point.

You don't kill ALL the demons, you only kill the ones that are on the way to your larger objectives. There's tons of demons the Slayer doesn't touch, even just the ones you see flying in the sky, not to mention all the ones, you know, elsewhere, outside of the levels. What's not very correct is your statement here, not my point somehow.

14 minutes ago, The Doommer said:

If you want a game that gives you all the weapons and upgrades from the start, you might not even want to try the OG Doom.

Don't put words in my mouth. Getting guns is only superficially similar to arbitrary passive stat upgrades. It's also much easier to balance for the designers.

14 minutes ago, The Doommer said:

Two words for this: Git gud.

You might want to work on your reading comprehension. This has nothing to do with gitting gud. I'm playing the game quite comfortably on Nightmare anyway. But I said replace the pinata mechanics with adequate amounts of resources simply planted in the levels, not just give me more stuff because the game's too hard. Try to understand what people are saying before replying maybe.

14 minutes ago, The Doommer said:

If you played Eternal, you'd understand that because Slayer is fucking immortal (game deaths aren't canon obviously) and is filled with pure hatred of the demons, so they shit themselves upon seeing him.

I played it and I know it. The point is, I don't like it and want it to be different. How hard is this to understand? What's the point of seeing a described change and then going "well, things aren't like that"? Obviously things aren't freaking like that, that's why I say I would've preferred them to CHANGE to be like that.

14 minutes ago, The Doommer said:

Second, lore is optional in the game, you hate it, don't read the codex.

I'm not one of those players that wants to play a game and ignore the lore. For me, lore is not optional.

14 minutes ago, The Doommer said:

Hell isn't stopped by the death of the priests. The invasion of Earth is stopped and the Khan Makyr resurrects Icon of Sin and sends him to Earth. So, hell isn't stopped at that point.

Again, you don't understand the lore here.

Or maybe I just haven't gotten to that point in the game, genius? Besides, that extra bit changes nothing about how much Hell is weakened and explained compared to how it could've been.

14 minutes ago, The Doommer said:

Sometimes, you won't need a dash refill and you can do some perfect movements (I tried and made it, believe me). But on some levels be my guest and try to dash without dash refills and fall to your death.

This is another case of completely baffling thought process. Do you think I want the exact level layouts and geometry, but for all the dash refills to be deleted from them? True galaxy brain there. Should've been obvious, but when I say I wish the game didn't have dash refills, I also mean it wouldn't have any need for them in the first place, not having gaps too long to cross without one.

Just now, Super Mighty G said:

 

So just strip away everything and make it OG Doom with modern graphics. Got it. 

Well, I can't stop you from simplifying and misrepresenting my description, but no, you don't got it.

4 minutes ago, Antroid said:

Well, I can't stop you from simplifying and misrepresenting my description, but no, you don't got it.

I just get that you want the core gameplay loop gone, so anything else is pretty inconsequential. 

Just now, Super Mighty G said:

I just get that you want the core gameplay loop gone, so anything else is pretty inconsequential. 

If by "core gameplay loop" you mean having combat mostly be prolonged fights in arenas and mostly using monsters for resources by interacting with them in specific ways, then yes. It's gimmicky, limiting and arbitrary. It also detracts from half of the fun I have with the original Doom games and many other shooters by eliminating a bunch of their gameplay aspects in favor of funneling you into a very narrow, very exact combat process (the so-called fun zone or doom dance or whatever the hell they're calling it) in strictly contained areas.

29 minutes ago, Antroid said:

You don't kill ALL the demons, you only kill the ones that are on the way to your larger objectives. There's tons of demons the Slayer doesn't touch, even just the ones you see flying in the sky, not to mention all the ones, you know, elsewhere, outside of the levels.

As you said:

29 minutes ago, Antroid said:

True galaxy brain there.

Of course I mean all the demons in the level. Not where is practically inaccessible to you.

29 minutes ago, Antroid said:

Or maybe I just haven't gotten to that point in the game, genius?

Then play it and then try to lecture me, genius.

29 minutes ago, Antroid said:

I wish the game didn't have dash refills, I also mean it wouldn't have any need for them in the first place, not having gaps too long to cross without one.

Game has a main focus on platforming, so It will have long distance areas that you will need some extra items to help you.

29 minutes ago, Antroid said:

lore is not optional

Well, I already said why all of it makes sense in my previous reply.

11 minutes ago, Antroid said:

using monsters for resources by interacting with them in specific ways

Use SSG mastery and you have a better way getting armor. Glory kills and chainsaw were there before, so I guess your point is about Armor mostly.

11 minutes ago, Antroid said:

original Doom games

Protagonist is the same, but the games are not. So, don't expect Doom Eternal to be a Doom clone.

29 minutes ago, Antroid said:

how much Hell is weakened and explained compared to how it could've been.

Pretty sure in Doom II when you kill the IoS, invasion of earth stops. And the text says "hell is a wreck"

And again, Doom Eternal isn't the end of the franchise. Hell is still there.

29 minutes ago, Antroid said:

True galaxy brain there.

29 minutes ago, Antroid said:

, genius

29 minutes ago, Antroid said:

You might want to work on your reading comprehension.

Seems you have a bad way of proving your point, just saying...

7 minutes ago, Antroid said:

If by "core gameplay loop" you mean having combat mostly be prolonged fights in arenas and mostly using monsters for resources by interacting with them in specific ways, then yes. It's gimmicky, limiting and arbitrary. It also detracts from half of the fun I have with the original Doom games and many other shooters by eliminating a bunch of their gameplay aspects in favor of funneling you into a very narrow, very exact combat process (the so-called fun zone or doom dance or whatever the hell they're calling it) in strictly contained areas.

So my point stands. I didn't misrepresent your point. You want it the old way. 

49 minutes ago, Mangcubus said:

That sounds exactly like old Doom tho. You can't just fire rockets in your face, you'll die. You can't just main the plasma rifle, you won't have ammo. There's an optimal play style.

 

Being able to basically main any gun was a weird 2016 quirk.

In Doom 1/2 you can have a total of 600 energy cells. In Eternal you can have a total of 250. That's well over a 100% difference. Couple this with how enemies in general are much more bullet spongy (especially if you don't feel like actively partaking in the weak point systems for heavy enemies every single time) and how ammo/resources are way, way more stratified and it's not nearly the same experience. Ammo and resources in the originals did not feel like it worked like this very explicit system of micromanagement which you actively had to pay attention to and repeatedly focus on, instead of focusing on other (more enjoyable) aspects of gameplay.

22 minutes ago, The Doommer said:

Of course I mean all the demons in the level. Not where is practically inaccessible to you.

Well then, obviously, to necessitate the change of the levels into being non-linear, the objective should no longer be killing every single demon in the level. I thought this was obvious enough that you couldn't possibly mean that needing to kill every demon in a level in DE is why that change would be impossible.

22 minutes ago, The Doommer said:

Then play it and then try to lecture me, genius.

I'm not trying to lecture you, but I've played enough to see how Hell is portrayed in this game. It wasn't gonna completely change its approach and direction in the second half.

22 minutes ago, The Doommer said:

Game has a main focus on platforming, so It will have long distance areas that you will need some extra items to help you.

This is nonsensical. Lots of purely platforming games don't have any sort of navigational powerups. Even if the game for some reason has to have a "main focus" on platforming (which unlike most people I don't actually mind, a degree of platforming by itself feels natural to me in any FPS), it doesn't have to make long distance areas without any way to traverse them without resorting to abstract floating powerups.

22 minutes ago, The Doommer said:

Use SSG mastery and you have a better way getting armor. Glory kills and chainsaw were there before, so I guess your point is about Armor mostly.

I do use the SSG mastery, and it's a slightly more convenient way to get armor than the flame belch, but it's still very much the same kind of mechanic as all the pinata ones. Also, who's saying I liked glory kills and the chainsaw in 2016? :D Chainsaw for ammo is probably my biggest gripe in DE, in 2016 it was barely ever required and mostly a quick way to kill some annoying big demon. For me at least.

22 minutes ago, The Doommer said:

Protagonist is the same, but the games are not. So, don't expect Doom Eternal to be a Doom clone.

Doesn't have to be a clone, but there's nothing saying it couldn't have been done in a way that was much closer to the OGs without making it some call of duty level rehash.

22 minutes ago, The Doommer said:

Pretty sure in Doom II when you kill the IoS, invasion of earth stops.

 

And again, Doom Eternal isn't the end of the franchise. Hell is still there.

Fair point about the IoS, but I always saw that as some sort of momentary illusion of victory. And while Hell is still here in the new Doom universe, it simply no longer holds the impact it used to before all the structure and rules were introduced to it.

22 minutes ago, The Doommer said:

Seems you have a bad way of proving your point, just saying...

Sorry, but your reply was spectacular in how much it missed the whole point of my post being "what I'd have preferred to be different". You keep taking the changes and trying to apply them to the exact Doom Eternal we got, like removing all the dash refills or whatever. I would've thought it would be obvious that I meant the changes being made in a way that doesn't break the game (like deleting all dash refills might), rather for the game to have been made from the beginning with the approach altered in those ways. It's not just things I was implying could have been patched into the game or something.

19 minutes ago, Super Mighty G said:

So my point stands. I didn't misrepresent your point. You want it the old way. 

Wanting the essentials of the FPS gameplay to remain mostly intact does not in any world equal being "OG Doom with modern graphics". There's a vast gap between the two. So yes, you did in fact misrepresent my point, and are continuing to do so.

Lower the difficulty and the game won't be as tightly balanced and punishing.

3 minutes ago, Antroid said:

Wanting the essentials of the FPS gameplay to remain mostly intact does not in any world equal being "OG Doom with modern graphics". There's a vast gap between the two. So yes, you did in fact misrepresent my point, and are continuing to do so.

If the core loop is gone it is effectively OG Doom so semantics don't matter. 

4 minutes ago, Pegg said:

Lower the difficulty and the game won't be as tightly balanced and punishing.

Then it would just be boring. I like the challenge, I still enjoy the gameplay a lot. I'm having a blast with the game. Doesn't mean I can't dream of it having been perfectly made to suit my tastes and my personal perception of Doom. :D

1 minute ago, Super Mighty G said:

If the core loop is gone it is effectively OG Doom so semantics don't matter. 

By that logic most FPS games ever made are "effectively OG Doom"? In that case it's a definition so broad as to become completely useless, straight from the bygone era of just calling every FPS "a doom clone" and every gaming system "a Nintendo".

2 minutes ago, Antroid said:

By that logic most FPS games ever made are "effectively OG Doom"? In that case it's a definition so broad as to become completely useless, straight from the bygone era of just calling every FPS "a doom clone" and every gaming system "a Nintendo".

We are not talking about most FPS games. We're talking about a Doom game, so of course it's going to be basic Doom if you take it's unique mechanics out. 

Just now, Super Mighty G said:

We are not talking about most FPS games. We're talking about a Doom game, so of course it's going to be basic Doom if you take it's unique mechanics out. 

My point is that calling it "og doom with modern graphics" is a very narrow way to look at it. Especially when you word it that way seemingly to imply that it's a bad thing somehow. Besides, there could be many changes and additions to it that I personally would welcome. They would have to not detract from the fun that was already in the game like the combat loop does in the nuDooms, rather, they would have to simply add new fun things on top of that. Like the interactive displays or PDAs from Doom 3. In the end it's all very subjective for what changes detract and what changes are good, different for many people, but the point still stands, "roll back some of the Doom Eternal changes" does not equal "Just make a clone of Doom 2".