[v1.5] Doom 64: Retribution

It has been brought to my attention (even though not exactly in a nice and appropriate way) that my post here from March 5 has been kinda offensive and insulting towards the GEC Edition and its team.

I admit that the word "abomination" was too strong in this context and could be misunderstood as a general disrespect for the effort of the GEC team. I emphasize that this was not the intention and I appreciate any effort to bring any version of console Doom versions to PC. All I wanted to say is that I prefer using up-to-date port executables. My apologies go out to anyone who might have felt addressed and offended by my unfortunate choice of words.

So I just heard that the new D64 port is getting some new levels. I also heard that

So, will the new levels get ported to retribution eventually? :v

And will the new lore elements presented in Eternal be taken into account on the making of the new Retribution episode?

Cheers!

For the last time though:

DOOM 64 WAS ALWAYS A CANON ENTRY IN THE SERIES.

I know, I know! Relax :v

To me, the canon was always:

Ultimate Doom, Doom II (and NRFTL) Evilution, Plutonia, Doom 64 (and dare I say, the new retribution episode too, whatever it turns out to be), Doom 2016 and now Eternal.

But I don't remember D64 being acknowledged as it is being now for a long time, so I was never really sure if it was official.

Heck, before finding this forum I thought I was one of the very few people who knew this game existed, so when I found Retribution my head literally exploded.

34 minutes ago, caikelm said:

But I don't remember D64 being acknowledged as it is being now for a long time, so I was never really sure if it was official.

Ya I was in the same boat. There wasn't a big mention of it from ID or re-releases. Like Doom 3 came out with a collection of the original Dooms, except 64, so it made me wonder. But to be fair midway had some rights to redistribution, so it prevented ID from doing their own porting of it at the time. But I am more-than-happy to accept it as always canon. :D

41 minutes ago, caikelm said:

But I don't remember D64 being acknowledged as it is being now for a long time, so I was never really sure if it was official.

It was always official. The reason why, I think, was not considered as such by some people was because it was exclusive to the N64 only at the time, prompting them to think it was some spin-off entry, which it isn't.

I think some people forget about the fact that Midway was actually commissioned by id Software to make DOOM 64 after the release of PSX DOOM by Williams (who acquired Midway in 1988). Williams also handled the US release of the SNES port as well.

1 minute ago, InDOOMnesia said:

I think some people forget about the fact that Midway was actually commissioned by id Software to make DOOM 64 after the release of PSX DOOM by Williams (who acquired Midway in 1988). Williams also handled the US release of the SNES port as well.

Yeah, now that I think of it.

Some people forget (or weren't aware of) that D64 was a project approved and supervised by id Software, on top of being a work-for-hire kind of a deal. You don't get that with a mere "filler entry".

2 hours ago, caikelm said:

So, will the new levels get ported to retribution eventually?

I'd like to, but that depends on if I'm allowed to do so. Since they are not only a paid product but also very new, it might be a long time (if ever) before I can add them.

1 hour ago, caikelm said:

To me, the canon was always:

Ultimate Doom, Doom II (and NRFTL) Evilution, Plutonia, Doom 64 (and dare I say, the new retribution episode too, whatever it turns out to be)

Actual canon will always be by whoever owns the rights and makes official content. Retribution will never be canon, but rather a fan made episode. Lost Levels are part of the official canon now.

I started a new playthrough and found another instance of that warning, it is during the story intermission before the secret map Outpost Omega.

By the way, @Nevanderdo you plan to make the HudMessage more faithful to the original? For example the secret found message?

2 hours ago, VGA said:

do you plan to make the HudMessage more faithful to the original? For example the secret found message?

Can you elaborate? The messages should be the same as the original, unless you mean the font, placement and color? That is not easily reproduced because GZDoom determines all that stuff. It is possible, but would require lots of scripting and the value of it is outweighed by the amount of work required to implement.

I considered trying to do the flashing key thing using ACS only. It's possible as well but would be script heavy when it's such a miniscule addition to overall faithfulness.

On 3/21/2020 at 2:10 PM, Gerardo194 said:

Actually, we don't care...

Shitty ports like Retribution and BD64 believe themselves as ownwers of Doom 64.

Wooooah dude, not cool at all. I expect that kind of wording from Sgt. Mark IV or Graf, not you GEC guys. You know, I'd understand your frustration if only you guys bothered updating your port instead of saying v3 is coming "soon" for over a year...

Don't continue the drama, dude, that was last page!

6 hours ago, CoTeCiO said:

Wooooah dude, not cool at all. I expect that kind of wording from Sgt. Mark IV or Graf, not you GEC guys. You know, I'd understand your frustration if only you guys bothered updating your port instead of saying v3 is coming "soon" for over a year...

Gerardo got carried over but he quickly apologized. Just end it.

15 hours ago, VGA said:

Don't continue the drama, dude, that was last page!

Yeah, sorry, my bad. I got carried away by the whole thing.

@Nevander

How do I enable brightmaps? I load the pk3 after the main wad but ... are they enabled? Doesn't seem so when I look at switches. The green part of them isn't fullbright.

Also, I am using the downscale option in GZDoom to play at 2native resolution, the only problem I have is that the logo is very small and lowres and it gets wrecked when downscaling, it looks like this, can you double its resolution/size?

I would like to say thanks for the WAD port, and because of you I was able to play Doom 64 before the release. For your episode, that you want to create, is it possible to use the Doom 64 release engine, so that way there will be no issues in the long run.

1 hour ago, VGA said:

How do I enable brightmaps? I load the pk3 after the main wad but ... are they enabled? Doesn't seem so when I look at switches. The green part of them isn't fullbright.

The current brightmaps pk3 is very incomplete. It's been on the backburner since 1.0's release. In fact I can't even remember what all is brightmapped currently. It will be improved in 1.6.

One problem though is that brightmap definitions are not inherited through composite textures. What I mean is, let's say I made a brightmap for a switch. Then, defined a bunch of textures using that switch with a lot of different wall textures behind it. Only the original switch will get brightmapped because the other textures have new names. The switch itself will be in a different location so I cannot simply reuse the brightmap. I'll need to create brightmaps for these as well.

1 hour ago, VGA said:

Also, I am using the downscale option in GZDoom to play at 2native resolution, the only problem I have is that the logo is very small and lowres and it gets wrecked when downscaling, it looks like this, can you double its resolution/size?

It's already a high res graphic. I don't know why the downscaling would ruin it so badly because it's perfect square dimensions. It must be an issue with GZDoom's scaling with such high-res replacement graphics? I don't really know how all the scaling works or which scaling takes priority.

31 minutes ago, eliparker said:

For your episode, that you want to create, is it possible to use the Doom 64 release engine, so that way there will be no issues in the long run.

With what goals I have in mind, no. I'll need the GZDoom feature set.

I actually prefer if GZDoom is eventually able to run the Steam wad. Anyway, there will always be a place for Retribution. Just like for all the other console Doom TCs.

4 hours ago, Nevander said:

With what goals I have in mind, no. I'll need the GZDoom feature set.

Fair enough, I personally have no issues playing Doom 64 Retribution, then the official re-release for the Lost Level. Still I'm looking forward to your WAD. 

On 3/21/2020 at 8:55 AM, InDOOMnesia said:

@D88M3R Depends on your other preferences.

D64 EX stays true to the original with some additions such as uncapped 60 FPS (also in all other versions) and region changing (NTSC, PAL, and NTSC-J/Japanese).

Absolution is absolutely outdated and not recommended, but it has a few new maps (some of them also added to Retribution) as well as a few new monsters.

Retribution has all the original maps and some of the new Absolution maps, with improved weapon graphics.

The new port is the more advanced version of D64 EX, with a new episode.

 

On 3/21/2020 at 8:57 AM, TheNoob_Gamer said:

Retribution

• Play the best on the surface level.
• Can run on most machines.
• Include some good maps.
• Supports GZDoom gameplay mods.
• Come with GZDoom goodies (fps uncapping, being able to rebind controls).
• Has some QOL improvements (interpolated weapon animations).
• Is free.
• No password support.
• Fun levels are accessible since the beginning.

 

EX

 

• Play the most accurate to the original.
• Performance issues on some machines.
• Come with some good options like full mouselook, crosshairs. And of course rebinding controls.
• No interpolated weapon/enemy animations.
• Has a level editor.
• Technically free but you need the ROM.
• Has password support.

 

Absolution

 

• Basically EX (it's completely free, by the way), but worse in terms of overall accuracy and performance. Has some good custom, unofficial maps however.

 

EX Steam

 

• Play the most accurate to original.
• Lacks some EX goodies (crosshair, full mouselook) due to dev time (I think). Keybinding may unstable at times.
• Can be played at 60FPS.
• Can run on potato machines.
• Has a level editor.
• Some issues (intro movies) are solvable.
• Better password support.
• Has achievements.
• No interpolated weapon/enemy animations.
• Has a new episode that links the classics and the reboots.
• $5.

 

All with 60+ FPS / 1080p support afaik.

On 3/21/2020 at 10:59 AM, VGA said:

Retribution is like a remaster, it has options for better animations like pumping the shotguns and extra configurable effects like bullet decals on walls. Between the mod's additions and GZDoom's options (like ambient occlusion and resolution downscaling), it has a TON of configurable changes. And it contains extra episodes, including the Absolution maps. And there is work on more. Also, you can play it on platforms that run GZDoom, like on Android, on Delta Touch.

 

Doom 64 on Steam is a great port which is more faithful and only costs 5 bucks. If you want to play a faithful and official remaster then get this one. It has an extra new episode. I bought this the minute it got released, easiest decision of my life, heh.

 

Doom EX is a free, older version by the main programmer behind Doom 64 on Steam. Old and boring now. Pay 5 bucks and get the new version.

 

Absolution TC is by the same coder and it is bad, old and boring, all at once!

On 3/21/2020 at 9:13 AM, seed said:

I'm a bit puzzled by the lack of mention of GEC GZDoom/DZDoom everywhere, which can play both PSX Doom and Doom 64 quite faithfully, but not perfect as the internal demos do desync in Version 2. It is based on an old version of GZDoom (1.9.0), so it should run fine on potatoes.

 

Until PsyDoom is ready enough for a stable version, it is currently the best way to experience PSX Doom on PC by a long shot, and the D64 part is not half bad either. Just make sure to edit the mapinfo and change the gravity back to 800 or 760 - it was accidentally set too low to prevent a sequence break in one of the maps from PSX Doom (Mansion, I think?). 760 is the highest it can go to prevent that error from occuring.

Thanks for the answers, i guess i am gonna get the new one or EX, i am just looking to change the resolution but otherwise to be as faithful as possible, i also plan to play PSX Doom so that too.

What I love about this mod and sets it apart from all the others in my opinion is the fact that it doesn't try to be faithful to the original nintendo 64 experience.

I don't think the original game is bad by any means but while playing I was constantly bothered by things like doomguy not having hands and the shotgun reloading being basically just a sound effect.

I know there's Brutal Doom 64 but that's just too over-the-top to me. I like it but I don't really think it's the best way to play doom 64.

Then I found Retribution and it only took a few minutes in the first level for it to blow my mind.

It's the best doom 64 mod in my opinion because it actually improves over the original experience without losing it's identity. It doesn't take too much liberty with the enhancements but still puts the game on par with the previous games with the new gun animations, the extra levels and all of the gzdoom features. Makes the whole classic games feel more consistent to each other, if that makes any sense.

Well, to me, the mod is already perfect in terms of features and enhancements (I still think it would be awesome to have the classic HUD Doom 64 Style) and I think any new feature that changes the visuals to make it more faithful to the original like the message thing mentioned earlier should be optional (I wish the not-showing-found-secrets-on-automap was optional too)

That's why I wish we can get to play the new doom 64 episode in Retribution some day. 

@caikelm

If you go to GZDoom options and into Automap options you can toggle monster, item and secret counters in the automap.

@Nevander

You got rid of that extreme epilepsy inducing "red alert" section in one of the early maps, didn't you? I was watching a real-hardware N64 playthrough the other day and I was like "wtf is this thing? I don't remember this!"

1 hour ago, VGA said:

If you go to GZDoom options and into Automap options you can toggle monster, item and secret counters in the automap.

I was talking about the automap drawing the secret areas after you've found them, like in the previous games. There's an option for that in gzdoom but it was apparently deliberately removed in this mod because that's how the original game was or something like that.

On 3/22/2020 at 5:26 AM, NightFright said:

offensive and insulting towards the GEC Edition and its team.

On 3/24/2020 at 6:30 PM, CoTeCiO said:

I expect that kind of wording from Sgt. Mark IV or Graf, not you GEC guys.

No, my brothers haven't said anything about it, so it wasn't GEC, it was only me.

On 3/24/2020 at 6:30 PM, CoTeCiO said:

I'd understand your frustration if only you guys bothered updating your port instead of saying v3 is coming "soon" for over a year...

That wasn't my decision... It is up to Erick... No frustation then.

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Sorry for being a motherfucking asshole... 

5 hours ago, VGA said:

You got rid of that extreme epilepsy inducing "red alert" section in one of the early maps, didn't you?

I wouldn't say "got rid of" but rather "couldn't reproduce." GZDoom is incapable of doing additive flashes that bright, only brighter/darker of the same color shade with light levels.

But, it is rather jarring. I don't want to cause epileptic attacks so I might leave it that way.

14 hours ago, Gerardo194 said:

That wasn't my decision... It is up to Erick... 

Yeah, I know that, but what I mean is that DZDoom would get more recognition if it had a more frequent update schedule, at least when necessary. Maybe it was a bad move to try to do v3 as a big update and hold any other updates before that instead of fixing immediate bugs that appeared shortly after v2 came out with smaller bugfix updates. But hey, you're right, this is not up to you. I've seen you've been working on the missing Doom 64 monsters, so you're doing your own stuff, and doing it well.

20 hours ago, Nevander said:

I wouldn't say "got rid of" but rather "couldn't reproduce." GZDoom is incapable of doing additive flashes that bright, only brighter/darker of the same color shade with light levels.

 

But, it is rather jarring. I don't want to cause epileptic attacks so I might leave it that way.

I had to look away from my TV playing this level on the official port, dunno what the original dev was thinking. Glad to hear the Retribution version wont hurt my head.

Doomb question but interpolation should be on or off? How was it in the original game?