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MrDoomMaster

Best Wad Editing Program?

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I would really appreciate it if someone could tell me the best OR most efficient and bugless wad editor available. And if you could also tell me where i could get this editor, i would also be greatful. Thanks!

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heh there's quite a bit of debate on that one. i use doomcad, but it's too good for most people in the community to handle. but it has more than it's share of errors :P your best bets are Wadauthor (specially if you're a n00b) or DeepSEA (which is messy and cluttered but powerful). personally i think both kinda suck :P

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I'm sort of exiting the n00b stage, and wadauthor is really easy.................

IF YOU WANT TO MAKE FUCKING CRAP LEVELS


Wadauthor is actually pretty good and easy, just a little annoying at times, especially when sectors accidentally mix(a door expands to another sector).

Get wadauthor from the utilities page here on DoomWorld.

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Well. The one I have used and liked are:
DoomCAD, DETH.

The ones I have used and didn't like:
WinDEU, Wadauthor, DEEPSea

It's just a matter of personal preference after all, most new mappers like Wadauthor while I myself get very confused by the radically different approach to editing it uses.

I do recommend getting started with an easy to use editor though, DOOMCad or Wadautor. Jumping direcly into DEEPSea or DETH might be too much if you are a new mapper unless you are prepared to really struggle in the beginning.

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DCK is by far the fastest and easiest to use for a new wadauthor. However, it has many limitations and bugs that make it not the editor of choice today.
Deepsea is clearly the most powerful and probably the most error free.
I'd try a bunch of them out and see what you like... and/or look at the results of some editors. For example, Lutz used Windeu5.24 for P:AR. that is some impressive editing for sure.. or maybe impressive texture manipulation and node-building would be a better way to say it.
If you don't have Dos support, your choices are pretty limited, I think.

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Unlike many people here (except for a select few), I tend to stick with DOS-based editors.

NWTpro -edit everything in a wad, namely inserting, extracting lumps, gfx, sprites, patches, editing texture1&2 + pnames lumps

DCK 3.62 -map editing. Easiest I've seen. The only one I can succesfully use. Unfortunately, I haven't figured out how to even make zdoom levels with it. (only one possible would be zdoom 1.17)

Wintex -Uh, this ones for windows, not quite used to it. Useful for those wads too big for NWTpro to handle.

DeHackEd -duh, dehacked stuff.

That's pretty much me.

PSP -gfx editor

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MrDoomMaster said:

I would really appreciate it if someone could tell me the best OR most efficient and bugless wad editor available. And if you could also tell me where i could get this editor, i would also be greatful. Thanks!

See http://www.doomworld.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12220 discussion here on Doomworld in the editing section. Many people stick with whatever editor they start with since it's fairly hard to learn any editor - so it's best to start with one that gives you the most bang for your editing time:)

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I've never understood the difficulty people have with Deepsea, anyway I went from windeu -> wadauthor -> Deepsea and it's the least painfull to use IMO.

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Opulent said:
DCK is by far the fastest and easiest to use for a new wadauthor. However, it has many limitations and bugs that make it not the editor of choice today.
Deepsea is clearly the most powerful and probably the most error free.

Agreed.

A note to NICK PERRIN: could you please shorten your signature?

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I've used Waded for a long time, and still find it adequite for my needs. It's buggy, but I love it, and it's easy to learn (with documentation of course)

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I've been using DETH and ZETH for as long as I can remember. I keep a DOS computer just so I can continue to use them since they won't function with my XP machine at all. I do use DEEPSEA for everything BUT mapping. It is an excellent program for ripping textures/sprites, etc... from a wad as is WINTEX. I find DEEPSEA easier in that respect.
As for joining wads (textures, maps, etc...) I stick with DETH - they always come out right.
I've tried Windows editors for mapping but they lack the simplicity of looking at a blank screen and the basics (vertex, line, sector). I find them powerful yet a pain in the ass.
Wanna see what can be done with a good DOS editor? Check out some of the screenpics from the third level of Descent into Hell on my site.
I couldn't do that with a windows editor...

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Brad_tilf said:

Wanna see what can be done with a good DOS editor? Check out some of the screenpics from the third level of Descent into Hell on my site.
I couldn't do that with a windows editor...

Thanks sortof:) Anyone can make any level they want with just about any editor that supports the specials and memory support for the level. Everything else is just what one gets used to, not necessarily the easiest way to do it.

Windows editors can have "blank" screens too - arguably more blank than DETH in terms of available screen space. Remember, DETH is attempting to emulate a "Windows" interface - so knocking Windows programs is sort of self-defeating. The long term goal of DEU (in the DOS version) was to improve on the Windows emulation with better dialogs - but it never was finished. The Windows version of DEU is mostly just like the DOS version, although a bit less stable.

DETH can't join WADs though, you must mean something else:)

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I use DeePsea.

I started off with some DOS editors, blah graphics, slow and tedious work, square rooms only. I found DeePsea and fell in love with the linedraw tool. Of course, this led to many bad habits with terribly weird-shaped rooms, but I eventually applied the grid and take more time and care in the levels and make them look nice. I still use the linedraw tool to make rooms/objects and then do splitline if I need more verticies.

DeePsea works great for me. It has lots of easy editing features that help me speed up my work. For example, I use the Flip LineDef, Merge Sectors, Split LineDef, Copy, and Mirror quite often. I also don't know where I'd be without being able to just delete a vertex and have everything stick together right. Being able to easily scroll through flats or wall textures also speeds me up a bunch. Also, the error checkers help me clean up my levels before I work on reducing filesize with packing sectors and SideDefs.

New version needs to come out though, with all the new ZDoom items and stuff. =/

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Nanami said:

New version needs to come out though, with all the new ZDoom items and stuff. =/

Thanks for the feedback. Seems you've really learned how to use and abuse the features as intended.

What are the new ZDOOM 2.xx items? Is there a list somewhere? You can add them yourself. Just edit the OPT file for the project with Notepad or any text editor.

There is a new version coming out (11.7) with ZDOOM Heretic Hexen format support. Not sure about all the spawning via specials though - since the max # is 255 and some THING ids are above that.

So if you or anyone else know anything about new stuff for either DOOM or Heretic, I'd appreciate the info so I can add it before release.

The other big changes are huge level support (for those who have hit DOOM linedef or sidedef limits - now it's 64k vs 32k before) and a change in the way objects get hilighted - IMO, a bit easier to view.

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I think there is very little in the way of recent new Zdoom items. Quite possibly none over and above the things you already have covered in ZdoomHexen.opt I think the last major additions were the slope things, and you have them.

There are of course the unlimited numbers of DECORATE user defined items, but with no standardisation I don't see anyway of making them available via the menus, other than allowing direct entry of edit nums, which you already do :-).

I think you already have all the line types covered too. I'm certanly not aware of not finding any I have wanted in the DeePsea menus. Of course, I may have added something to my ZdoomHexen.opt and forgotten that I did it instead of you. :-)

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How do I get DoomCad to work? I can't even get it open.
When it asks for your doom directory, I give it but it always says its invalid or something along those lines. Whatever. Does anyone here know of a wad editor that lets you add new stuff by specifying a thing number(this is for EDGE TCs).

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Nick Perrin said:

How do I get DoomCad to work? I can't even get it open.
When it asks for your doom directory, I give it but it always says its invalid or something along those lines. Whatever. Does anyone here know of a wad editor that lets you add new stuff by specifying a thing number(this is for EDGE TCs).


DETH and DEEPSea, probably others too.

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Deepsea is quite good, but can be overwhelming for a beginner. I myself prefer Wadauthor. It also has some pretty good tutorials.

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Nick Perrin said:

Does anyone here know of a wad editor that lets you add new stuff by specifying a thing number(this is for EDGE TCs).


As people have already said, DeePsea will allow you to do this. Also, DeePsea has configurable .opt files that allow you to add items to the menus or change the descriptions and pictures used for existing ones, and even remove items from the menus. Useful if you are doing long term work on a TC and want an editor tailored to your particular project.

Dunno if other editors will allow you to do something similar.

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Enjay said:

As people have already said, DeePsea will allow you to do this. Also, DeePsea has configurable .opt files that allow you to add items to the menus or change the descriptions and pictures used for existing ones, and even remove items from the menus. Useful if you are doing long term work on a TC and want an editor tailored to your particular project.

Dunno if other editors will allow you to do something similar.


DETH can do the exact same thing.

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Yeah Deth got kickass support for that. you can do your own menues and all. It's all controlled by CFG files.

Wadauthor got it's WCF files.. and they can be tailored aswell. but I don't know to what extent.

as can DoomCad iirc, but it's limping..

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Nick Perrin said:

Does anyone here know of a wad editor that lets you add new stuff by specifying a thing number(this is for EDGE TCs).


By editing WadAuthor's .wcf files, you can create your own thing classes (like health, armour, monsters etc.), move things from one class to another (eg. putting the backpack back in the ammo class), rename the text that appears for each thing in WA, (great for making new sprites appear with their intended names rather than the one it's replacing) and with ZDoom's decorate lump you can add new things altogether. (not monsters though)

I don't know about EDGE support though. (although I did manage to create a ZDoom Heretic .wcf file using these means, so it could be possible to create an EDGE one, as long as you have the new thing edit numbers to put in the wcf file)

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deep said:

What are the new ZDOOM 2.xx items? Is there a list somewhere? You can add them yourself. Just edit the OPT file for the project with Notepad or any text editor.


I'm not sure where to find a list because I was trying to find one myself. The main new things I noticed a lack of was the 3D bridge objects and the skybox camera. Also, some of the ZDoom Hexen tags are wrong (like the slopes). Somebody somewhere has this information, I'm sure.

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Nanami said:

I'm not sure where to find a list because I was trying to find one myself. The main new things I noticed a lack of was the 3D bridge objects and the skybox camera. Also, some of the ZDoom Hexen tags are wrong (like the slopes). Somebody somewhere has this information, I'm sure.

E-mail Randy for that kind of info.

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I use DETH. And indeed. I'm using DETHs config files to change and add a few things.

In my opinion, the best editor is whatever works for you, especially if it's free software. I've been too lazy to check Why yet, but it's probably worth trying out. And I hear Rimmer is at work on an innovative editor as well.

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I have been using WADED 1.83 forever it seems... well 6 years i guess when i get around to making levels, my advice, my OPINION rather is one from someone who was computer illiterate.

I bought the book and CD "Tricks of the DOOM Programming Gurus",
BEFORE i ever owned a computer! I was saving my pennies for one so i could play the 1,000's of levels out there, my only need for a computer at the time.

I read it thoroughly. This book/CD combo is out of print, but is for sale used on AMAZON.com (i saw new ones going for $16 there).

If you go that route like i did, you dont need the CD (most used books don't include it anyway) because all those editors are still around, and they use WADED as the example editor showing how to build levels.

Is this book essential? It was to me, but as mentioned in an above post, without documentation, I don't think any editor will work well for someone new to editing. I say get the book, but thats me

Long Live WADED (....Putting away my soapbox now...)

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Nanami said:

I'm not sure where to find a list because I was trying to find one myself. The main new things I noticed a lack of was the 3D bridge objects and the skybox camera. Also, some of the ZDoom Hexen tags are wrong (like the slopes). Somebody somewhere has this information, I'm sure.


Interesting. My DeePSea is v 11.6 (so not the latest) and I think I have all the invisible bridge items (5061, 5064, 5065, 118, 9990) and slope lines prompt for, and accept, arguments correctly. Pretty sure these were not items that I added.

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Could be they are downloading the obsolete version here at DoomWorld?

Don't remember when those items were added, but I do know for sure that they were added shortly after ZDOOM had them available:)

If someone has an older registered version, they can download the current shareware ( 11.66 right now and if you wait a bit 11.7 from sbsoftware.com ) and copy the info from the OPT files into the older OPT files. There's been some slight format changes with more options (for example the "bridge" object can show a special bridge sprite), so I don't think you can take the new file and just use them in all older versions.

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Nick Perrin said:

Does anyone here know of a wad editor that lets you add new stuff by specifying a thing number(this is for EDGE TCs).


Yeah, WadAuthor.
1) You just insert ay old thing(e.g. an imp) in the map where you want your new thing to appear.
2) Then you right click on top of it an choose "Edit Raw data".
3) In the box that pops up, put the number of your thing(monster) in the "Type" box.

BTW this question has been asked before quite a few times in the editing forum...

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