How do I determine which mods are compatible with which?

Sometimes it just happens that some mods work at the same time despite modifying the same category of code. Or at least work together well enough for me to not notice whatever hiccups there may be.

Are there any number of ways I could know preemptively or at most with minimum testing which mod combos will work together and which won't?

EDIT: Didn't mention earlier but yes I do read readmes or forum threads where the compatibility is stated.

Most of mod compatibility can be discerned by reading text document attached to files, if text file says "do not play with mod x, because things will break", you better respect that decision or proceed to test, because nobody can stop you, heh. 

Well, usually if the mods play nicely together they're probably compatible. What you usually want to avoid is naturally going to be mods that alter the same thing whatever you're currently playing does. For instance, even something as simple as a custom palette may screw up the way sprites are rendered if you load another palette when the WAD already has one doing extensive changes. WADs typically have information about mods you should not use along with it though, as well as what ports are compatible/have been tested, and which weren't.

Troubleshooting mod conflicts in Doom is thankfully nothing like Elder Scrolls, where you can spent hours on end just fiddling with load orders and activating/disabling them one by one until things go back to normal, or the game stops randomly CTDing.

Edited my OP. I do read the compatibility statements. I meant in the case where it is not explicitly stated and/or there is room for interpretation.

2 hours ago, random_soldier1337 said:

Edited my OP. I do read the compatibility statements. I meant in the case where it is not explicitly stated and/or there is room for interpretation.

How often does this happen in your experience? Because the vast majority of /idgames entries specify for what it is for.

In the off case that they don't, i would suggest looking up their threads on DW - Most authors post a development thread of some sorts and often mention for which engine or port the WAD is for.

Basically, if you've got two mods that change monsters/weapons/whatever, you can assume that it will break stuff.

Level packs are usually fine as long as they don't include custom monsters - if they do, there might be DECORATE conflicts if they both modded the same stuff.

Mods that replace (Doom) entities by default
The mod that was loaded first or last will always "win" and you would only see one mod's content but not from the another

Then you also have mods that rarely use the same name for defining weapons or monsters.

12 hours ago, Redneckerz said:

How often does this happen in your experience? Because the vast majority of /idgames entries specify for what it is for.

 

In the off case that they don't, i would suggest looking up their threads on DW - Most authors post a development thread of some sorts and often mention for which engine or port the WAD is for.

Often enough that I posed the initial question.

12 hours ago, Dark Pulse said:

Basically, if you've got two mods that change monsters/weapons/whatever, you can assume that it will break stuff.

 

Level packs are usually fine as long as they don't include custom monsters - if they do, there might be DECORATE conflicts if they both modded the same stuff.

Thanks. This is probably closer to the kind of details I was looking for. I'm not too technically inclined with Doom modding but I can understand a few things here and there.

Also, question. When you say 'same stuff' are you referring to the same category, e.g., monsters/weapons/etc. Or are you referring to something else?

12 hours ago, Kizoky said:

Mods that replace (Doom) entities by default
The mod that was loaded first or last will always "win" and you would only see one mod's content but not from the another

Then you also have mods that rarely use the same name for defining weapons or monsters.

Can you tell me what you mean by the 'same name' for weapons/monsters? I'm not sure I understood.

36 minutes ago, random_soldier1337 said:

 

Often enough that I posed the initial question.

Do you have some examples? That was the intent of my question namely :)

Quote

 

I can't remove the blank quote on mobile, so disregard this part.

Extermination day without Brutal Doom. A lot of objects get replaced with those exclamation marks denoting missing assets.

Or stronghold with any monster replacer. Monsters don't try to reach the goal but just do the standard reach and/or attack player.

I also think Golden Souls 2 didn't work properly with Embers of Armageddon in that I couldn't get any ammo for my weapons. EoA says it is pretty much universal.

Admittedly, these aren't incompatible per se since you technically aren't stopped from playing. Nothing really says until you get further in the game and realize that even though the codes aren't clashing, what they are doing in game and the design for each of the things is counter to what the overall design of one set out to do.

1 hour ago, random_soldier1337 said:

Extermination day without Brutal Doom. A lot of objects get replaced with those exclamation marks denoting missing assets.

 

Or stronghold with any monster replacer. Monsters don't try to reach the goal but just do the standard reach and/or attack player.

 

I also think Golden Souls 2 didn't work properly with Embers of Armageddon in that I couldn't get any ammo for my weapons. EoA says it is pretty much universal.

 

• Isn't Extermination Day made specifically for Brutal Doom? That is expected.
• As said, 2 mods in the same (sub)category when loaded together will break the port. In this case, Stronghold modifies and include quite a fair share of enemies (and each have "how many points you get when they die" value hardcoded in them iirc). 
• You are being too naive here. It is common knowledge that ANY Total Conversions won't never work well with ANY gameplay mods (simply put, Total Conversions do what they say on the tin - they modify quite a lot of things ingame), which is something that most gameplay modders won't state in their mod post. (if you haven't already understood, Golden Souls 2 is a total conversion and EoA is mod. The same philosophy still applies if you switch their order though)

Basically, there are some hidden rules in the case of mod compatiblity that are so obvious it will be a waste of time to list all of them in your mod's post, you don't want to waste the player's time reading through walls of text just to enjoy a few minutes with a .pk3. (There are indeed exceptions like Hideous Destructor)

6 hours ago, random_soldier1337 said:

Thanks. This is probably closer to the kind of details I was looking for. I'm not too technically inclined with Doom modding but I can understand a few things here and there.

 

Also, question. When you say 'same stuff' are you referring to the same category, e.g., monsters/weapons/etc. Or are you referring to something else?

Same category, yes. For example, if it's two weapon mods, and both redefine the chaingun into something else, generally the last one loaded will take precedence, but if there's stuff the former has that the latter does not, that will still be "active."

The loose way to consider Doom mods when you load multiple in a row is that later files "overwrite" earlier files. Let's say you got a WAD that gives graphics, music, levels, and textures, and a second wad that does only levels and textures. You'll get the new graphics and music from the first WAD because the second WAD doesn't have those, but you'll get the levels and textures from the second one (there are exceptions for more advanced mods/map packs intended for modern source ports, such as if they put their levels in a new namespace as opposed to the standard ExMx/MAPxx stuff, but for most stuff, this is correct). The first WAD's levels and textures effectively won't exist, but the levels of the second WAD will now have the first WAD's graphics and music, because the second WAD didn't provide those.

7 hours ago, TheNoob_Gamer said:

• Isn't Extermination Day made specifically for Brutal Doom? That is expected.
• As said, 2 mods in the same (sub)category when loaded together will break the port. In this case, Stronghold modifies and include quite a fair share of enemies (and each have "how many points you get when they die" value hardcoded in them iirc). 
• You are being too naive here. It is common knowledge that ANY Total Conversions won't never work well with ANY gameplay mods (simply put, Total Conversions do what they say on the tin - they modify quite a lot of things ingame), which is something that most gameplay modders won't state in their mod post. (if you haven't already understood, Golden Souls 2 is a total conversion and EoA is mod. The same philosophy still applies if you switch their order though)

 

Basically, there are some hidden rules in the case of mod compatiblity that are so obvious it will be a waste of time to list all of them in your mod's post, you don't want to waste the player's time reading through walls of text just to enjoy a few minutes with a .pk3. (There are indeed exceptions like Hideous Destructor)

Don't remember the readme off the top of my head but I don't think it was explicitly stated to be played with BD. Extermination Day seems more like an accompanying mod to BD in that levels and gameplay are designed to enhance BD and vice versa. You could play it vanilla too if you wanted. Custom monsters/bosses as well as events still show up.

Can you guys compare GZDoom modding to modding with other games? Like seed said, in TES modding you could spending hours arranging/rearranging a load order until you get everything right.

On 6/30/2020 at 7:59 AM, random_soldier1337 said:

Can you tell me what you mean by the 'same name' for weapons/monsters? I'm not sure I understood.

 

Modders need to name their entities, this can be anything i.e. "class Zombieman : Actor"
but that would conflict with Doom's "Zombieman" and probably would be overridden and the mod's "Zombieman" would take priority
(correct me if I'm wrong though)