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MaishyN

LIGHTPATH (updated) - a huge and heavily detailed boom map (OTEX/65k+ linedefs)

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Looking good, chief! The space skybox and colour-themed tech textures are right up my alley.

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@MaishyN, this is an amazing debut. Personally, I'm not a slaughter player, so I decided to do a nomonsters tour and then play the early parts.

 

The artistic presentation is wonderful. You stick with a consistent technological style and color themed side areas. And let's not forget the incredible city vista at the start and the fun cartoon Sector Faces found throughout the map. I've thought of doing something similar myself and am surprised it's not done more often.

 

I knew this map was going to be too much for me at the Blue Parkour Section. There's no way I could hang with that. ;D There was a lot of extreme parkour throughout the map, including the remarkable timed lift areas.

 

When I played a little bit on HNTR, the first couple fights were shockingly easy. Then I got into the first Really Big Fight and decided to quit there, though I may go back and see if I can use the Invulns and Megaspheres + infighting to prevail.

 

But don't let my views worry you. Wait for the hardcore slaughter players this map is meant for. I'm just a tourist here, so I thank you for this magnificent piece of Doom Art.

 

Edit: I forgot to mention, really sweet work on the midi. It's pretty, sets a nice mood, and serves very well as BGM for a long map.

Edited by Steve D

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Just finished playing it. I thought it was pretty dang fun for the most part. The visuals were definitely the strongest feature of the map in my opinion, with layout coming second. The part I really found myself liking was the fact that not every room was a ball buster. There were peaks and valleys to the difficulty. Some rooms required some careful strategy, while others were just blasting away at hordes of enemies, carefree.

 

The nonlinearity of the keys section was the highlight of the map for me. It's not often that you get to use exploration in a slaughter map like this. That being said, there were some specific areas that seemed to rub me the wrong way. Chiefly of which is the fight after you grab the red key. The environment doesn't really lend itself to fun combat in my opinion. I thought it was pretty annoying. I ended up just rushing the switches and leaving the enemies for later. I think it would be cool to leave the entire red key section devoid of enemies and keep it as a fun platforming section through some sort of giant factory. That's just me though.

 

The last fight was absolutely insane. I loved the visuals here. It seemed a little too hard for me, though, so I just cheesed it by running into the teleporter hub that takes you to each key arena. I think you forgot to close that little room off. It wasn't until I started clean up that I noticed like 6 invulnerabilities that I didn't even know were there when I first attempted the fight. I guess with that knowledge it would be easier for me to beat that final fight. Also I know you probably ran out of linedefs, but the exit room seemed to be laughably devoid of detail.

 

Overall a fantastic map with a real sense of adventure! Good job!

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On 6/10/2020 at 11:41 AM, MaishyN said:

Now it is time for some screenshots:

 

Blue room:
CENTRAL.png.3a79894534db695c9e5d9769ca15251f.png
 

Green room:

GREEN.png.d2d2fe84af27bf1a6c7f4d4ada646a0d.png

 

Grey/Orange room with a lot of buttons:

CRUSHER.png.c1ff31132f32b70fcae79857435fe21c.png

 

A red room that you will hate:

RED.png.15a60455f590effe30b25249fa4ee800.png

 

A cavern and an altar of choice:

YELLOW.png.12e2b2a9d082057ddf1ad083b3052030.png

 

Any guesses what will spawn here?

CACO.png.9806edc557689b9b897917aeefa6ba2a.png

 

Bird's-eye view:

FINAL.png.3a2e7d7369eddfd01a363e008f7b89ee.png

 

Some random fact:
In the map there is a reference to an old strategy game that was released as a remastered edition recently and got quite popular. At the time of making this reference I didn't even know about a remastered edition and it was quite a nice surprise:).
 

Enjoy!


Looks like it's made from lego :D

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Thanks for your warm comments, feedback and suggestions! I'm really happy that you liked the map and had a bit of fun with it. It really makes me motivated to do more in the future.

@Steve D I believe that while later fights may seem a bit difficult on HNTR they just require the player to spam bfg into a swarm of monsters while being on invuln and be careful to not be inside this swarm while invuln ends. For most part of the map my idea for HNTR would be to make most encounters doable by providing a few invulns. I'm aware that platforming sections may be a bit of pain as it is not so trivial to balance in different difficulties. I've actually had an idea at some point to just enterily skip the blue platforming section on HNTR by adding another teleport destination in the next part. Red area is another story and now I'm pretty sure it is not properly balanced at the moment.

 

@Arbys550 The line limit is a real pain. I've started drawing the exit part once there was like 200 linedefs left so I tried to be as efficient as possible :). I could think about some rework about it. I suspect that I've made one mistake while balancing the red room. Last tweaks were made a few moments before showing it and the platform section was made like three months ago, I've jumped many, many times over them and I've become quite familiar with dancing on them. Every person playing this map will see them for a first time and it would take a while to get proficient at jumpig. I haven't realized that before. I really like your idea of a large platforming section without any monsters. In such case I would design the area differently and make it more detailed. At the moment it would be quite a bit of rework so I'll probably just make the difficulty of the fight much lower. I will definitely consider making a dynamic large platforming section without any monsters in future maps. In the last part the invulns and knowledge of their placement were intended to be the key. Thanks for pointing out a way to cheese. I think that this is a quite trivial way to cheese so I will get it fixed.

 

@Doom-X-Machina The part that looks like lego the most is not on the screenshots :). Unfortunately I wasn't able to make a cool looking screenshot of it.

 

After receiving some initial feedback I've though of implementing such changes:
1. In all red themed areas with moving platforms reduce damage of the pain sectors, from 20% to 10% or even 5%.

2. In big red room make two teleporters between the cross shaped platforms. That should make the fight easier.

3. Scale down the difficulty in red key fight, chaingunners will probably be changed to zombiemen on higher difficulties and into imps on HNTR.

4. Skip the blue pillar platforming area enterily on HNTR by making another teleport destination in the next area.

5. Make a HNTR voodoo doll that will just raise all the platforms in red themed areas and lower a few teleports to make returning up possible. The voodoo doll controlling the platforms would only be present on HMP/UV.

6. Remove potential softlock in first blue room fight in the pit before the bridge is raised.

7. Fix potential cheese in teleport room during final fight.

8. If there would be enough linedefs, make some linedef-efficient detailing in the exit area.

Edited by MaishyN

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I love the design of it but the red section is the most annoying part of the map. Platforms rapidly moving up and down are what turn me away from the map. My question is did you even test your map? When I design maps, I always test them to ensure that they are beatable. I have a feeling that authors don't put any effort into making their maps and expect the community to test out the map. To me, testing your own map is a must if you want it to be good. I test my maps so why don't others test theirs? One problem that I forgot to mention is that when minimizing the game, if you try to bring it back to foreground, it would be stuck in an infinite loop of black screen and "loading graphics" in Boom.

Edited by mArt1And00m3r11339

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7 hours ago, mArt1And00m3r11339 said:

I love the design of it but the red section is the most annoying part of the map. Platforms rapidly moving up and down are what turn me away from the map. My question is did you even test your map? When I design maps, I always test them to ensure that they are beatable. I have a feeling that authors don't put any effort into making their maps and expect the community to test out the map. To me, testing your own map is a must if you want it to be good. I test my maps so why don't others test theirs? One problem that I forgot to mention is that when minimizing the game, if you try to bring it back to foreground, it would be stuck in an infinite loop of black screen and "loading graphics" in Boom.

 

Hey! I'm glad that you like design of the map. I've actually tested the map extensively up to the point where I've had to take some break from Doom after showing it here. Seriously, at some point I've got sick of that:). I must also say that it is not about authors don't putting any effort into testing a map and expecting community to do this. Every mapper and every player is a different person with different playing style and skills. It is just impossible to know exactly how other players will react to your work. Feedback received from players is a crucial component that will eventually make mapper's work better.

 

I've tested the map only in PrBoom+/GlBoom+/GZDoom and I didn't experienced any serious issues but I'm aware that it may not work properly on other source ports due to its size and that may be your case.

 

I'm aware that the red section is improperly balanced and the main cause is probably that I've spent too much time testing this room and I've become pretty good at jumping the platforms. That may sound silly and ironic but I've problably designed the moving platforms in February and jumping over these platforms for several months made me very familiar in navigating them and I didn't realize that it might be too hard for a player seeing them for a first time.

 

Two fights that seem to require more serious fixes and rebalancing are the red room fight and the final fight.

 

For the red room the plan is following, effects on different difficulties would be acheived by voodoo dolls with difficulty setup:

On UV/HMP:

Change the platform pattern, so there will be like 4 or 5 platforms up at the same time instead of 2, now it requires perfect timing and such change would give the player more space for error

On HNTR:
Move all platforms up, and lower a few teleports down the pit to make going back up possible. The platforms would be stationary.

 

On all difficulties enemies will be significanly nerfed and one switch be removed. The pain sector on the bottom will be changed from -20% to -5%. I've also thought of adding some teleports to make the navigation easier.

 

In the final fight I'd like to put a few more resources, a few more invulns and probably a few more cyberdemons to make the fight go faster. I'm pretty sure it is beatable now once the player knows the location of all invulns but I'd like to nerf it after receiving some feedback. More cybies should also help because now the fight usually results in a large group of hks/barons left that have to be killed manually. Actually I've came up to the conclusion that it would probably be better if the final fight wasn't that hard at all.

 

I'm pretty satisfied with other fights on UV. My personal favourite is the YK fight, making the lavafall was so damn fun:).

Some more nerfing would be required on HNTR as I'd like to make all puzzle elements completely optional. Purple room currently requires the player to make proper usage of the switch and that shouldn't be the case on HNTR.

 

I've done very little mapping in last month but I've spent quite a lot of time analyzing everything concerning this map. I plan to publish a fixed version soon. I hope you'll enjoy the fixed version where the red room will not be so brutal:). I've also gathered quite a bit of new ideas and I plan to start a new map later, it will probably be hell-themed but I'm still not sure.

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38 minutes ago, MaishyN said:

 

Hey! I'm glad that you like design of the map. I've actually tested the map extensively up to the point where I've had to take some break from Doom after showing it here. Seriously, at some point I've got sick of that:). I must also say that it is not about authors don't putting any effort into testing a map and expecting community to do this. Every mapper and every player is a different person with different playing style and skills. It is just impossible to know exactly how other players will react to your work. Feedback received from players is a crucial component that will eventually make mapper's work better.

 

I've tested the map only in PrBoom+/GlBoom+/GZDoom and I didn't experienced any serious issues but I'm aware that it may not work properly on other source ports due to its size and that may be your case.

 

I'm aware that the red section is improperly balanced and the main cause is probably that I've spent too much time testing this room and I've become pretty good at jumping the platforms. That may sound silly and ironic but I've problably designed the moving platforms in February and jumping over these platforms for several months made me very familiar in navigating them and I didn't realize that it might be too hard for a player seeing them for a first time.

 

Two fights that seem to require more serious fixes and rebalancing are the red room fight and the final fight.

 

For the red room the plan is following, effects on different difficulties would be acheived by voodoo dolls with difficulty setup:

On UV/HMP:

Change the platform pattern, so there will be like 4 or 5 platforms up at the same time instead of 2, now it requires perfect timing and such change would give the player more space for error

On HNTR:
Move all platforms up, and lower a few teleports down the pit to make going back up possible. The platforms would be stationary.

 

On all difficulties enemies will be significanly nerfed and one switch be removed. The pain sector on the bottom will be changed from -20% to -5%. I've also thought of adding some teleports to make the navigation easier.

 

In the final fight I'd like to put a few more resources, a few more invulns and probably a few more cyberdemons to make the fight go faster. I'm pretty sure it is beatable now once the player knows the location of all invulns but I'd like to nerf it after receiving some feedback. More cybies should also help because now the fight usually results in a large group of hks/barons left that have to be killed manually. Actually I've came up to the conclusion that it would probably be better if the final fight wasn't that hard at all.

 

I'm pretty satisfied with other fights on UV. My personal favourite is the YK fight, making the lavafall was so damn fun:).

Some more nerfing would be required on HNTR as I'd like to make all puzzle elements completely optional. Purple room currently requires the player to make proper usage of the switch and that shouldn't be the case on HNTR.

 

I've done very little mapping in last month but I've spent quite a lot of time analyzing everything concerning this map. I plan to publish a fixed version soon. I hope you'll enjoy the fixed version where the red room will not be so brutal:). I've also gathered quite a bit of new ideas and I plan to start a new map later, it will probably be hell-themed but I'm still not sure.

If you try playing it with ZDoom-derived source ports, the final fight gets laggy. When testing it with Boom, it runs fine. Where I run into problems is when I pause and minimize the game. It would be stuck on a black screen for minutes and that gets annoying (especially if I recorded my demo of the map since it is probably going to take multiple hours). I don't know if you have managed to beat it without even saving and loading. I prefer to be able to beat it without having to save and load. Let me know when a new version is out (I'm sure you will announce it in this thread).

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Hello again!

I've uploaded an updated version of Lightpath. Link is in opening post.

 

I'd like to thank everyone for playing Lightpath. I really appreciate all the feedback I've got from you. If you haven't played the map already then you're somewhat lucky as you missed a really painful pillar dance experience:). Hope you'll enjoy the new version!

 

Some fixes and rebalancing on all difficulties have been made. UV monster count was unchanged. There are 10666 monsters on HMP and 6666 on HNTR (I don't remember who but somebody suggested 6666 would be cool - thanks:)).

 

A quick changelog:


 

Spoiler

 

Final Area:

1. More resources. A few more invulns on UV. A lot more invulns on lower difficulties. More ammo.

2. Slightly reworked monster composition. A bunch of cybies have been added to cause more infighting.

3. Teleport room now closes after pressing main switch.

4. Pressing all switches now starts crushers in all monster closets. This is added for convenince in case any monsters were blocked or teleporting late.

5. Added invisiblity spheres as a reward for solving the puzzle. It looks pretty funny once all monsters in this area start to shoot randomly:).

 

Red Area:

1. Moving platforms have been slightly reworked. On UV/HMP the pattern is a bit changed, so more platforms are up at the same time. This should make movement easier. On HNTR all platforms stay up all the time.

2. Teleporters for going back up have been added.

3. Damage of pain sectors has been decreased from -20% to -5%

4. A few new teleports for easier navigation.

5. Changunners changed into imps. Decreased caco count.

6. More resources have been added, invisiblity spheres have been changed into megas/invulns.

7. One switch has been removed.

8. Added similar crushers as in final area.


Exit area has been reworked.

 

The blue pillar jump section is now skipped on HNTR. Player is teleported to the next section instead.


 

 

 

 

On 7/10/2020 at 2:09 PM, mArt1And00m3r11339 said:

If you try playing it with ZDoom-derived source ports, the final fight gets laggy. When testing it with Boom, it runs fine. Where I run into problems is when I pause and minimize the game. It would be stuck on a black screen for minutes and that gets annoying (especially if I recorded my demo of the map since it is probably going to take multiple hours). I don't know if you have managed to beat it without even saving and loading. I prefer to be able to beat it without having to save and load. Let me know when a new version is out (I'm sure you will announce it in this thread).

 

I'm aware of some performance issues. I wonder if there are any ways to optimize this map without giving it a serious rework. Every fight have been tested to be beatable without infight saving but I haven't tried beating the whole map. I would consider beating the map on UV in a single non-TAS run as an ultimate challenge. I personally hate this map too much to even try it myself:). But I think it should definitely be possible. One of my design goals was to make all the fights challenging but as little dependent on RNG as possible (if it comes out that a fight requires RNG grinding I would rework it). For most of the fights I've found strategies that work quite well when executed properly so it should be a matter of practice and patience. I'd love to see that once you succeed:).

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7 hours ago, MaishyN said:

Hello again!

I've uploaded an updated version of Lightpath. Link is in opening post.

 

I'd like to thank everyone for playing Lightpath. I really appreciate all the feedback I've got from you. If you haven't played the map already then you're somewhat lucky as you missed a really painful pillar dance experience:). Hope you'll enjoy the new version!

 

Some fixes and rebalancing on all difficulties have been made. UV monster count was unchanged. There are 10666 monsters on HMP and 6666 on HNTR (I don't remember who but somebody suggested 6666 would be cool - thanks:)).

 

A quick changelog:


 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Final Area:

1. More resources. A few more invulns on UV. A lot more invulns on lower difficulties. More ammo.

2. Slightly reworked monster composition. A bunch of cybies have been added to cause more infighting.

3. Teleport room now closes after pressing main switch.

4. Pressing all switches now starts crushers in all monster closets. This is added for convenince in case any monsters were blocked or teleporting late.

5. Added invisiblity spheres as a reward for solving the puzzle. It looks pretty funny once all monsters in this area start to shoot randomly:).

 

Red Area:

1. Moving platforms have been slightly reworked. On UV/HMP the pattern is a bit changed, so more platforms are up at the same time. This should make movement easier. On HNTR all platforms stay up all the time.

2. Teleporters for going back up have been added.

3. Damage of pain sectors has been decreased from -20% to -5%

4. A few new teleports for easier navigation.

5. Changunners changed into imps. Decreased caco count.

6. More resources have been added, invisiblity spheres have been changed into megas/invulns.

7. One switch has been removed.

8. Added similar crushers as in final area.


Exit area has been reworked.

 

The blue pillar jump section is now skipped on HNTR. Player is teleported to the next section instead.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm aware of some performance issues. I wonder if there are any ways to optimize this map without giving it a serious rework. Every fight have been tested to be beatable without infight saving but I haven't tried beating the whole map. I would consider beating the map on UV in a single non-TAS run as an ultimate challenge. I personally hate this map too much to even try it myself:). But I think it should definitely be possible. One of my design goals was to make all the fights challenging but as little dependent on RNG as possible (if it comes out that a fight requires RNG grinding I would rework it). For most of the fights I've found strategies that work quite well when executed properly so it should be a matter of practice and patience. I'd love to see that once you succeed:).

As far as the cavern (the one with the yellow alter) is concern, what is your recommended strategy on how to go about surviving when dealing with the floaters and the teleporting enemies?

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4 hours ago, mArt1And00m3r11339 said:

As far as the cavern (the one with the yellow alter) is concern, what is your recommended strategy on how to go about surviving when dealing with the floaters and the teleporting enemies?

 

 

I've prepared a layout of my strategy. I'll go step by step through it. Every step is marked with a number on the mini map.

 

I choose chaingunners to die on the altar. Killing all viles as soon as possible is crucial to succeed. Blue arrows represent which viles to kill at each step. 

 

1. Start by pressing the switch and just before the viles appear on the pillars shoot rockets into the vile far on the opposite side to kill it immediately.

2. Jump down to the ledge in front of 2 viles killing them as fast as possible with RL. It is possible to get zapped here as it is difficult to get cover from the closest vile.

3. Move behind the altar and kill another 2 viles. It is possible to refill lost health/armor with soulsphere/blue armor.

4. Go to the outer ledge on the other side and kill the last vile on this side.

5. Move back. I switch to plasma here as it's possible to get close to some imps/hks.

6. Get back to the northern ledge. Kill last two viles.

7. I usually stand here with RL and shoot into the swarming pinkies for as long as possible to make next steps easier.

8. Switch to plasma and go for the mega. With plasma it is possible to go through pinkies without taking much damage.

9. Go down the stairs and escape to the cavern ledge. This is a bit longer part where I refill ammo several times and try to kill as many enemies as possible. Shooting rockets up the stairs seem to be pretty effective to kill most of the ground monsters. I also do some dancing with the cacos to kill as many of them here. I go up and down the cavern several times in this step.

10. Once the caco swarm is near go up and go to the secret area. It requires a few precise jumps but this shouldn't be a problem if cacos are not blocking the way.

11. Take the radiation suit and mega and jump down into lava pit. Do it fast to not get hit by a bunch of caco fireballs or other stuff.

12. This is also a bit longer step. I just use all the time on the radiation suit to kill as many cacos while being in the lava. There are also some resources here and there to pick.

13. Once the radiation suit is over I take all other resources I can and teleport back up. The teleport destination is behind the altar so all monsters should be lured far away from here just before teleporting in.

14. I take the second mega and refill ammo. There will be some cacos/hks/barons left but now it should be managable to kill them.

 

strategy.png.b185ca245d852dffafd0bd77de1354d2.png

 

Hope that helps. Choosing to kill viles instead of chaingunners seemed to be less consistent for me but I think it should also be possible to find a good strategy. Cheers!

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57 minutes ago, MaishyN said:

 

 

I've prepared a layout of my strategy. I'll go step by step through it. Every step is marked with a number on the mini map.

 

I choose chaingunners to die on the altar. Killing all viles as soon as possible is crucial to succeed. Blue arrows represent which viles to kill at each step. 

 

1. Start by pressing the switch and just before the viles appear on the pillars shoot rockets into the vile far on the opposite side to kill it immediately.

2. Jump down to the ledge in front of 2 viles killing them as fast as possible with RL. It is possible to get zapped here as it is difficult to get cover from the closest vile.

3. Move behind the altar and kill another 2 viles. It is possible to refill lost health/armor with soulsphere/blue armor.

4. Go to the outer ledge on the other side and kill the last vile on this side.

5. Move back. I switch to plasma here as it's possible to get close to some imps/hks.

6. Get back to the northern ledge. Kill last two viles.

7. I usually stand here with RL and shoot into the swarming pinkies for as long as possible to make next steps easier.

8. Switch to plasma and go for the mega. With plasma it is possible to go through pinkies without taking much damage.

9. Go down the stairs and escape to the cavern ledge. This is a bit longer part where I refill ammo several times and try to kill as many enemies as possible. Shooting rockets up the stairs seem to be pretty effective to kill most of the ground monsters. I also do some dancing with the cacos to kill as many of them here. I go up and down the cavern several times in this step.

10. Once the caco swarm is near go up and go to the secret area. It requires a few precise jumps but this shouldn't be a problem if cacos are not blocking the way.

11. Take the radiation suit and mega and jump down into lava pit. Do it fast to not get hit by a bunch of caco fireballs or other stuff.

12. This is also a bit longer step. I just use all the time on the radiation suit to kill as many cacos while being in the lava. There are also some resources here and there to pick.

13. Once the radiation suit is over I take all other resources I can and teleport back up. The teleport destination is behind the altar so all monsters should be lured far away from here just before teleporting in.

14. I take the second mega and refill ammo. There will be some cacos/hks/barons left but now it should be managable to kill them.

 

strategy.png.b185ca245d852dffafd0bd77de1354d2.png

 

Hope that helps. Choosing to kill viles instead of chaingunners seemed to be less consistent for me but I think it should also be possible to find a good strategy. Cheers!

I usually take out the arch-viles first since they resurrect enemies. I know that camping in the small secret sector doesn't help because you are taking damage from the cacodemons. Thanks for the tip, though.

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I think at this point, I would rather TAS this map (slow motion, specifically). I don't think it is worth doing it under normal circumstances. If it is beatable under normal circumstances, that's great. Honestly, I am running out of patience when it comes to trying to beat it under normal circumstances. I think this map is almost like playing Chillax maps. If someone can record a demo of this map without dying non-TAS, then props to that person. I don't think anyone would, though, which is rather sad. If this were my map, I would just eliminate the floaters all together in the cavern, so that the player would only have to focus on the ground enemies. If I wanted to, I might do this map with Doom 4 Vanilla where I can just watch enemies of same species attack each other.

Edited by mArt1And00m3r11339

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9 hours ago, mArt1And00m3r11339 said:

I finally completed the map. I did it with slow motion.

0lightpath_120720_TAS.zip

 

Great job! I've watched the whole run. It was really a lot of fun for me. I really liked how you took BFG to BK fight. I also like that you've found an easier way to go through purple room, while it may look cheesy it is ok for me that such non-trivial cheesing possibilities exist.


At some point I thought you would like to know about this page. This could help you get the last secret:) (spoilerish)

http://perfectweb.org/ddo/solver/vale_puzzle.html

 

On 7/12/2020 at 4:14 PM, mArt1And00m3r11339 said:

I think at this point, I would rather TAS this map (slow motion, specifically). I don't think it is worth doing it under normal circumstances. If it is beatable under normal circumstances, that's great. Honestly, I am running out of patience when it comes to trying to beat it under normal circumstances. I think this map is almost like playing Chillax maps. If someone can record a demo of this map without dying non-TAS, then props to that person. I don't think anyone would, though, which is rather sad. If this were my map, I would just eliminate the floaters all together in the cavern, so that the player would only have to focus on the ground enemies. If I wanted to, I might do this map with Doom 4 Vanilla where I can just watch enemies of same species attack each other.

 

I actually think that the main problem with beating the map in a single run comes from it's length. I don't think these fights are significantly harder than fights in other popular difficult mapsets but the length of the map makes it much more difficult. As I'm a hardcore analytical freak I would explain it in a mathematical way with an abstract example: if a player can beat every difficult fight 3 out of 4 times (75% chance), then if there are 3 such fights in a map the chance of beating them all is 42,19% as it is 0,75 * 0,75 * 0,75 = 0.4219. By average two runs out of five should result in a success. If there are 12 such fights then the chance is only 3,17% (0,75 to the power of 12). So with 12 fights instead of 3 not only the time required to beat the map is 4 times longer but the chance of success is over ten times lower. The amount of effort required to beat a map raises exponentially.

 

I really liked your run and it is always a great learning experience for me to see others playing my content, thanks! Now it is time to seriously think on what map should join Lightpath as MAP02:)

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4 hours ago, MaishyN said:

 

Great job! I've watched the whole run. It was really a lot of fun for me. I really liked how you took BFG to BK fight. I also like that you've found an easier way to go through purple room, while it may look cheesy it is ok for me that such non-trivial cheesing possibilities exist.


At some point I thought you would like to know about this page. This could help you get the last secret:) (spoilerish)

http://perfectweb.org/ddo/solver/vale_puzzle.html

 

 

I actually think that the main problem with beating the map in a single run comes from it's length. I don't think these fights are significantly harder than fights in other popular difficult mapsets but the length of the map makes it much more difficult. As I'm a hardcore analytical freak I would explain it in a mathematical way with an abstract example: if a player can beat every difficult fight 3 out of 4 times (75% chance), then if there are 3 such fights in a map the chance of beating them all is 42,19% as it is 0,75 * 0,75 * 0,75 = 0.4219. By average two runs out of five should result in a success. If there are 12 such fights then the chance is only 3,17% (0,75 to the power of 12). So with 12 fights instead of 3 not only the time required to beat the map is 4 times longer but the chance of success is over ten times lower. The amount of effort required to beat a map raises exponentially.

 

I really liked your run and it is always a great learning experience for me to see others playing my content, thanks! Now it is time to seriously think on what map should join Lightpath as MAP02:)

I would be interested in seeing what it looks like. I was a little concerned about the crusher room on your map because you can get boxed in or accidentally run under crushers and get squashed. As far as the puzzle is concerned, I did not know that until now.

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I honestly don't know what squares to step on to be able to access the last secret.

Edit: Never mind, it is blocks 1, 9, 5, 3, and 7 (in that order).

Edited by mArt1And00m3r11339

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I reran your map (under normal circumstances). Kills (15,061/15,000), items (312/317), and secrets (100%) in 4 hours and 11 minutes. I will have a play through of your map at some point in the winter (my favorite season). 

 

0lightpath_120720.zip

Edited by mArt1And00m3r11339

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On 7/14/2020 at 7:26 PM, mArt1And00m3r11339 said:

I reran your map (under normal circumstances). Kills (15,061/15,000), items (312/317), and secrets (100%) in 4 hours and 11 minutes. I will have a play through of your map at some point in the winter (my favorite season). 

 

0lightpath_120720.zip

Good job on the run! You're definitely a great Doom player! I've watched like half of the run and I really enjoyed it. I hope that in the winter Lightpath will not be a single map but a part of a 2 or 3 level wad :).

 

On 7/14/2020 at 12:02 PM, mArt1And00m3r11339 said:

I honestly don't know what squares to step on to be able to access the last secret.

Edit: Never mind, it is blocks 1, 9, 5, 3, and 7 (in that order).

The order actually doesn't matter here. Remembering just to press the blocks on the corners and the middle one will do the trick.

 

Now I'm gathering ideas for some crazy stuff in next levels. I have ideas for a few more maps but the next one would definitely be of a different theme than Lightpath. Looking at the same textures for another few months would be too much for me:). Next map will most likely be something hellish and a bit abstract. I'll definitly come up with more crazy voodoo doll stuff but I'd rather stay with some dynamic areas and simple puzzles instead of hardcore platforming:)

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6 hours ago, MaishyN said:

 

Good job on the run! You're definitely a great Doom player! I've watched like half of the run and I really enjoyed it. I hope that in the winter Lightpath will not be a single map but a part of a 2 or 3 level wad :).

 

The order actually doesn't matter here. Remembering just to press the blocks on the corners and the middle one will do the trick.

 

Now I'm gathering ideas for some crazy stuff in next levels. I have ideas for a few more maps but the next one would definitely be of a different theme than Lightpath. Looking at the same textures for another few months would be too much for me:). Next map will most likely be something hellish and a bit abstract. I'll definitly come up with more crazy voodoo doll stuff but I'd rather stay with some dynamic areas and simple puzzles instead of hardcore platforming:)

That would be ideal. In your Lightpath map (first map), I spent nearly 40 minutes on the blue platforming section because I kept falling into the sky pit and having to teleport back. It drove me crazy.

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Really cool map! I played through on Twitch over the course of 2 nights:

 

Part 1: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/680611705

Part 2: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/681190210

 

I found a few HoMs, perhaps because I'm playing with software rendering? I've seen some other cases of HoMs that occur in software but not gl. But I don't have much to say that I didn't say during the playthrough :D I had a good time.

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On 7/16/2020 at 9:27 AM, Benjogami said:

Really cool map! I played through on Twitch over the course of 2 nights:

 

Part 1: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/680611705

Part 2: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/681190210

 

I found a few HoMs, perhaps because I'm playing with software rendering? I've seen some other cases of HoMs that occur in software but not gl. But I don't have much to say that I didn't say during the playthrough :D I had a good time.

 

I've watched both parts and it was really great to see you go through the whole map.

 

These HoMs should be fixable as they are most likely a result of untextured walls. After watching the whole stream I'm a bit more concerned that updated map may suffer from some blockmap issues. It seemed that the YK fight didn't work as intended as all chaingunners should die instead of teleporting in after pressing the switch on the right. Some of them have teleported into the battle and that was unintended. I've tested it extensively in the previous version and everything was working properly. It also seem that monsters from one closet in the final fight doesn't teleport in properly. 

 

I've also started to think about changing the texture of the middle switch in the purple fight. It should be obvious that it is a switch here and that purple skull doesn't seem like the best choice.

 

It was kinda unfortunate that you looked twice for a secret on a symmetrical ledge (first and last fight) and both times you picked the wrong side and missed two secrets :P

 

It was a lot of fun for me to watch both streams (especially the final fight :D). Thanks for streaming the map!

 

On 7/16/2020 at 8:40 AM, mArt1And00m3r11339 said:

That would be ideal. In your Lightpath map (first map), I spent nearly 40 minutes on the blue platforming section because I kept falling into the sky pit and having to teleport back. It drove me crazy.

 

At some point I've considered adding some kind of checkpoint that would work in such a way that once the player would go through a half of the platforming section a new teleport will be accessible so the player wouldn't have to replay the whole section. If there will be enough linedefs left I would consider implementing it in a future update.

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8 hours ago, MaishyN said:

 

I've watched both parts and it was really great to see you go through the whole map.

 

These HoMs should be fixable as they are most likely a result of untextured walls. After watching the whole stream I'm a bit more concerned that updated map may suffer from some blockmap issues. It seemed that the YK fight didn't work as intended as all chaingunners should die instead of teleporting in after pressing the switch on the right. Some of them have teleported into the battle and that was unintended. I've tested it extensively in the previous version and everything was working properly. It also seem that monsters from one closet in the final fight doesn't teleport in properly. 

 

I've also started to think about changing the texture of the middle switch in the purple fight. It should be obvious that it is a switch here and that purple skull doesn't seem like the best choice.

 

It was kinda unfortunate that you looked twice for a secret on a symmetrical ledge (first and last fight) and both times you picked the wrong side and missed two secrets :P

 

It was a lot of fun for me to watch both streams (especially the final fight :D). Thanks for streaming the map!

 

 

At some point I've considered adding some kind of checkpoint that would work in such a way that once the player would go through a half of the platforming section a new teleport will be accessible so the player wouldn't have to replay the whole section. If there will be enough linedefs left I would consider implementing it in a future update.

I would keep it the same as what it was before since I don't want my demo to desync with the wad file.

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On 7/18/2020 at 3:18 AM, mArt1And00m3r11339 said:

I would keep it the same as what it was before since I don't want my demo to desync with the wad file.

 

Unfotunately at some point it will be inevitable as it is not a completed wad yet. I guess that won't be a problem as I plan to keep all versions available and I don't have any need to delete them (if link will somehow stop working just message me). I will also keep adding some version numbers to wad file names to make it easier to find the appropirate file.

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On 7/17/2020 at 9:18 AM, MaishyN said:

I've also started to think about changing the texture of the middle switch in the purple fight. It should be obvious that it is a switch here and that purple skull doesn't seem like the best choice.

Oh yeah, something I forgot to say about this part: making the switch stand out more would help, but also the cover that I used, and any other place you can take cover from the viles, should be removed or blocked off somehow. The switch will stand out a lot more if it's the only way to survive. :) But still, I had fun figuring out how to do it without the switch, and sometimes it's nice to have more than one solution to a problem!

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21 hours ago, Benjogami said:

Oh yeah, something I forgot to say about this part: making the switch stand out more would help, but also the cover that I used, and any other place you can take cover from the viles, should be removed or blocked off somehow. The switch will stand out a lot more if it's the only way to survive. :) But still, I had fun figuring out how to do it without the switch, and sometimes it's nice to have more than one solution to a problem!

 

I think it is okay that there is an alternative strategy just to kill the viles, reworking the room would require additional simplification of other parts of the map due to linedef limit. I've tested this approach without using the switch several times and I couldn't succeed without infight saving so I assume it is more difficult than properly using the switch as I could survive the fight most of the time this way.

 

I believe the best option for the switch texture here would be one of the orginal Doom switch textures. While OTEX switches look amazing the orginal ones are just subconsciously saying "press me" to the player :D

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