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ASaltShaker

How does one get good at Doom?

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1 minute ago, Roofi said:

Just try to beat hard levels on UV without saves on pistol-start. 

And listening to Porcupine Tree helps a lot too.

;)

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practice practice practice.

 

That's what I keep telling myself anyway, I'm sure I'll get there one day *sobs

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I would definitely recommend such approach for getting better at Dooming (worked for me in the past). One should be quite familiar with Doom before trying this but it should help with getting comfortable playing really difficult maps:

 

1. Spend a while on controls. As others mentioned before, mouse + keyboard is the only way to go. You should also be familiar with SR40.

2. Find a cool and difficult map that you like. It shouldn't be too difficult though. It is preferable that it is a popular map with many demos and youtube videos available. My first choice was Sunlust 30.

3. Play the whole map on UV with IDDQD to get familiar with it.

4. Now once you know the map it is time to start it on UV again this time to play normally.

5. Before every difficult fight watch demos/youtube videos to see what tactics were used by others. Try to be analytical about their approach.

6. Do as much infight saving as possible. You succedded at killing that archvile without taking too much damage? Save. Three accurate BFG shots without taking damage? Save. You survived for another 15 seconds? Save. Use many save slots as sometimes it may happen that you save in an unfavorable situation and going back a few saves will be necessary. Be prepared to die and reload a lot.

7. You finished the map with just, let say, 100 saves! Great! Next time you will be able to do it with much less infight saving.

8. Find another cool and difficult map or try the same one again. This time try to do a bit less infight saving.

9. After going through several maps you will notice that you're now able to finish them with only a few midfight saves.

10. Once you feel you're ready, try to beat a difficult map with no infight saving at all. You may notice that it will require you a lot of trial and error but with enough patience you will succeed. After finishing it you will feel all the progress you've done.

 

You should also check out Doom streams on twitch. Watching hardcore players trying to UV-Max a really difficult map will also help you. It's not always possible to find such a stream but a few hardcore players are streaming regularly.

 

This approach is mainly about going from absolute spam saving madness into less and less infight saving to eventually be able to beat a map without infight saving at all. By going a few steps further one could try saveless UV-Maxing some of these maps but this is where the game gets really grindy. I don't think it will be fun for most of the players.

 

Good luck!

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On 7/28/2020 at 8:26 PM, LiT_gam3r said:

There is a topic by Fraggle that shows that DOOM was made to be played with mouse. read it here.

Never said it wasn't. It just wasn't common to use a mouse.

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51 minutes ago, Juza said:

Never said it wasn't. It just wasn't common to use a mouse.

[Citation needed]

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22 hours ago, MaishyN said:

I would definitely recommend such approach for getting better at Dooming (worked for me in the past). One should be quite familiar with Doom before trying this but it should help with getting comfortable playing really difficult maps:

 

1. Spend a while on controls. As others mentioned before, mouse + keyboard is the only way to go. You should also be familiar with SR40.

2. Find a cool and difficult map that you like. It shouldn't be too difficult though. It is preferable that it is a popular map with many demos and youtube videos available. My first choice was Sunlust 30.

3. Play the whole map on UV with IDDQD to get familiar with it.

4. Now once you know the map it is time to start it on UV again this time to play normally.

5. Before every difficult fight watch demos/youtube videos to see what tactics were used by others. Try to be analytical about their approach.

6. Do as much infight saving as possible. You succedded at killing that archvile without taking too much damage? Save. Three accurate BFG shots without taking damage? Save. You survived for another 15 seconds? Save. Use many save slots as sometimes it may happen that you save in an unfavorable situation and going back a few saves will be necessary. Be prepared to die and reload a lot.

7. You finished the map with just, let say, 100 saves! Great! Next time you will be able to do it with much less infight saving.

8. Find another cool and difficult map or try the same one again. This time try to do a bit less infight saving.

9. After going through several maps you will notice that you're now able to finish them with only a few midfight saves.

10. Once you feel you're ready, try to beat a difficult map with no infight saving at all. You may notice that it will require you a lot of trial and error but with enough patience you will succeed. After finishing it you will feel all the progress you've done.

 

You should also check out Doom streams on twitch. Watching hardcore players trying to UV-Max a really difficult map will also help you. It's not always possible to find such a stream but a few hardcore players are streaming regularly.

 

This approach is mainly about going from absolute spam saving madness into less and less infight saving to eventually be able to beat a map without infight saving at all. By going a few steps further one could try saveless UV-Maxing some of these maps but this is where the game gets really grindy. I don't think it will be fun for most of the players.

 

Good luck!

 

I play with keyboard only. Do you think I play bad?

 

I beated level 5 of Doom 2 on UV Fast with no Death, plus pistol start in my first recording. I just saved in case I might die but never died so I never did ''load''. It was just in case. I think what is more important is knowing the map.

 

 

 

Edited by Can't play on Nightmare

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1 hour ago, Can't play on Nightmare said:

 

I play with keyboard only. Do you think I play bad?

 

 

Someone, who was not you, was asking for advice on how to get better.

 

It's a fact that reaction times will be better using the mouse and keyboard together. Therefore, we suggested to this person who is not you that they try using the mouse.

 

Maybe at some point in the future, when they get good enough that they feel the need to brag, they might go back to using keyboard only and recording and posting keyboard-only brag videos.

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@ASaltShaker Do you play the original games or user-made levels? If it's the former then discovering all secrets in each level is a big help, in fact, I would say that knowing where all the secrets are in Doom 93 makes the game a little too easy, even on UV difficulty, especially E1.

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1 hour ago, Can't play on Nightmare said:

I gotta admit that this map is rather easy on UV Fast but it turns into Nightmare when it is played on Nightmare.

 

Do you just hang out on these forums all day waiting for even the slightest mote of difficulty related discussion? I have seen you randomly -and by no means an exaggeration here- start talking about about UV-fast/Nightmare in innocent and unassuming threads.

 

What is the fixation with it? I'm genuinely curious how it can consume you so completely. It's like you sit there with bated breath, monitoring the internet for one incredibly focused purpose.

 

Someone has to tell you this, it might as well be me. I know you think everyone hates you but I assure you that is not the case (at least I don't), it's this obsession you have with UV-fast and Nightmare. It's relentless and beyond persistent to the point that I wouldn't be surprised if you reached member status on that alone. That's got to qualify as a mental condition of some kind?

 

I mean don't get me wrong, I enjoy a challenge as well but it's not my life ambition. Compared to me you are transcendent.

 

Keep in mind this post is heavily laced with sarcasm, I actually find your border-line obsession with it hilarious. But not everyone has my sense of humour.

 

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Just keep playing it. Learn what works and what doesn't. Approach things from a different angle that you previously didn't. Study the environment to the best of your abilities, take note of the items and whether or not you should use them, or save them and come back when you need them. Lots of strategy, and also experience is involved,  The more time you put into it, the better you'll get.  

 

Doom isn't as simple as some would paint it out to be, there's more to it than just blasting your way through to the next map. Doom makes you utilizes your perception, cognitive skills, reflexes, and most important of all, Determination.

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5 hours ago, Can't play on Nightmare said:

I play with keyboard only. Do you think I play bad?

 

Not bad, not bad. You have the reaction-time down pretty good for keyboard. Do you use all default keyboard controls or a custom setup?

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3 hours ago, Final Verdict said:

 

Do you just hang out on these forums all day waiting for even the slightest mote of difficulty related discussion? I have seen you randomly -and by no means an exaggeration here- start talking about about UV-fast/Nightmare in innocent and unassuming threads.

 

What is the fixation with it? I'm genuinely curious how it can consume you so completely. It's like you sit there with bated breath, monitoring the internet for one incredibly focused purpose.

 

Someone has to tell you this, it might as well be me. I know you think everyone hates you but I assure you that is not the case (at least I don't), it's this obsession you have with UV-fast and Nightmare. It's relentless and beyond persistent to the point that I wouldn't be surprised if you reached member status on that alone. That's got to qualify as a mental condition of some kind?

 

I mean don't get me wrong, I enjoy a challenge as well but it's not my life ambition. Compared to me you are transcendent.

 

Keep in mind this post is heavily laced with sarcasm, I actually find your border-line obsession with it hilarious. But not everyone has my sense of humour.

 

 

I do like talking about difficulties.

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14 minutes ago, Hellektronic said:

 

Not bad, not bad. You have the reaction-time down pretty good for keyboard. Do you use all default keyboard controls or a custom setup?

 

For the right hand:

 

Arrow up: Go forward

Arrow down: Go backward

Arrow right: Go right

Arrow left: Go left

 

For the left hand:

 

A: Strafe left

S: Strafe right

Ctrl: Fire

Shift: Run

Space: Open/ Click

 

 

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1 hour ago, Can't play on Nightmare said:

(keyboard layout)

 

I used to play keyboard only for a long time and that’s the controls I used too, though I generally just Alt strafed instead of using the dedicated strafe keys. I think it’s a great way to play the game, but I don’t think you have a fair chance against DM players that are using a mouse, but that doesn’t mean there hasn’t been good keyboard only DM players, they are just few and far between and most don’t play Doom online anymore. 
 

I have been playing lately with a “mouse only” approach. Of course, I still need the keyboard to navigate the menu, to switch the weapons without having the cycle through each one individually at a time, and for the speed/run key, but I use a 5 button mouse for all movement including strafe, opening doors, and shooting. 
 

I think a duel between a mouse-only vs a keyboard only would be fun to watch the demo. 

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1 hour ago, Can't play on Nightmare said:

(keyboard layout)

 

That's a very commendable setup, especially for playing on UV-fast... that stuff gets hard even with the best keyboard+mouse setup, lol. I have to say though, I agree with you about UV-fast, that's the best way to play for veterans in my opinion.

 

My setup is kind of a hybrid, I use arrow keys, ctrl to run, right-click to strafe, left-click to shoot... no mouse-turning, mouse-moving, or mouse-look. It's still pretty oldschool. I tried all defaults on keyboard just last night, but it's too clunky for me... using alt, space, ctrl and shift all at the same time while moving with arrow keys is a nightmare.

 

11 minutes ago, TriTT said:

I think it’s a great way to play the game, but I don’t think you have a fair chance against DM players that are using a mouse

 

No, I guarantee you wont, lol. Keyboard is for singleplayer or coop only, deathmatch is whole different ballgame these days. Unless you found like... a keyboard-only deathmatch server, lol, I don't know if those exist but it'd definitely be cool.

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6 hours ago, Can't play on Nightmare said:

 

<Control scheme>

 

 

If you have a mouse, or even a good touchpad, you really just ought to just switch to keyboard + mouse. The game will get 10x easier.

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as a kb-only player I wanna say to all you mouse types: enjoy your carpal tunnel, suckers!

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I’m Keyboard only and really don’t think there is THAT much difference between keyboard vs Keyboard and mouse!

 

Sure if your talking like pro or god level play then definitely keyboard and mouse gives you a slight edge but anything below that you will get much, much, much more if you just:

 

  • practice
  • don’t talk about fight cl... I mean practice
  • practice

 

As for specifics, as others have said, learn to dodge cyber demon rockets, practice two shoting cyber demons with the BFG, learn how to dodge homing revenant missiles (bonus test is reliably get a bunch of them to orbit around you then dodge them) and practice shooting rockets off ledges without eating your own rocket :-P

 

Learning to do those things reliably  will give you much more of an edge than changing your control scheme in my option :-D

 

Oh one other thing is learn how to prioritise enemy types. Is more basic to learn than the above but massively improves skill! What I mean by this is recognise enemies at a glance and be able to decide what the biggest threats are. For me it’s usually something like (biggest threat to lowest):

 

  • archviles
  • pain elementals
  • chaingunners 
  • Mancubi
  • barons
  • everything else

 

Hope that helps :-D

Edited by DooM Bear

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On 7/30/2020 at 9:22 PM, Can't play on Nightmare said:

 

I play with keyboard only. Do you think I play bad?

 


It is rather painful to watch.

...and to hear about on every thread.

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Maybe i will summit a mouse only demo and be know as the master of mouse only that can easyly beat kb only demos


/s

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In Doom, skill is all about making the best decision at the moment and creating the best strategy to deal with a problem: Which weapon to use, if changing weapon is wise at that moment, which enemy to kill or stun, which route to take, how to move in the middle of the battleground, predicting the actions an enemy can do (or a group of enemies), managing your own resources (space, health, armor, ammo), etc.

 

It's also interesting because some wads focus on different types of playstyles, and while a determinated group of players is "equally" skilled, some maps will be more difficulty to determinate players while others will struggle more with different maps. Classic examples would be platform-focused maps x slaughter x less enemies but deadlier ones, but there are a lot of subtleties in more similar styled wads that might be enough to do the difference.

 

There are also others skill abilities that usually a skilled player is able to perform: Killing Cyberdemon with 2 BFG shots, a lot of tricks with BFG, being able to use well berserk fists, movement tricks, aiming well with rocket launcher (splash damage + distance + predicting enemy movement), chaingun tapping, etc. And more important, navigation skills! lmao

Edited by Deadwing

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11 minutes ago, Can't play on Nightmare said:

 

Why is it painful to watch? I didnt have a single death on UV Fast.

painful to see that you are soo good, pal!

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13 minutes ago, Can't play on Nightmare said:

 

Why is it painful to watch? I didnt have a single death in level 5 on UV Fast.

 

*sigh*

Because you can't resist telling us or showing us all for the 1000th time how awesome you are at only using keyboard on UV Fast.
You know what would really impress me? Trying a mouse. Record that.

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39 minutes ago, Doom-X-Machina said:

 

*sigh*

Because you can't resist telling us or showing us all for the 1000th time how awesome you are at only using keyboard on UV Fast.
You know what would really impress me? Trying a mouse. Record that.

 

What's wrong with using a keyboard only? I would play a lot worse than this if I used a mouse. Since my childhood, I played Doom with keyboard only.

 

My fingers are used to keyboard movements and I much prefer to improve it, rather than starting to learn using mouse from the zero level at an age of 30.

Edited by Can't play on Nightmare

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Play how you want. It's only relevant to focus on what controls you're using if you are attempting to set an official record or whatever.

 

I play using the keyboard only mostly because I'm playing Classic Doom pretty much always on a laptop and it's just easier and more comfortable for me to not have to use a mouse also. 

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1 minute ago, Boaby Kenobi said:

Play how you want. It's only relevant to focus on what controls you're using if you are attempting to set an official record or whatever.

 

I play using the keyboard only mostly because I'm playing Classic Doom pretty much always on a laptop and it's just easier and more comfortable for me to not have to use a mouse also. 

Thats exactly what i just wanted to ask!

Anybody plays Doom with the touch surface/mouselike thing that comes with laptops?

i remember playing Amnesia with that on my wife's laptop and it was cluncky as hell...

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6 minutes ago, P41R47 said:

Anybody plays Doom with the touch surface/mouselike thing that comes with laptops?

i remember playing Amnesia with that on my wife's laptop and it was cluncky as hell...

Doom is actually easier to play on a touchpad than most games, and as long as it's not a crummy one it's not debilitating. Aiming is a little bit more twitchy but you can usually compensate by relying on movement to aim for "finer" shots.

 

I have demos of my first-ever successful playthroughs of the episodes 1-3 on Nightmare and those were recorded on a touchpad. You'll see it's totally doable. I also did most of HR2 that way, including MAP32.

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