Responding to GmanLives' Unity Doom video (Removed)

1 minute ago, Biodegradable said:

 

I'll give you credence for it being a particular throwaway line in Gman's video that wasn't vitally important to address, but to suggest that one funny nitpick that lasts less than a minute somehow invalidates all of Doomkid's other points debunking the wealth of misinformation presented in the video is laughable.

It wasn’t just the Beatles joke. It was going to the effort of putting up an onscreen counter because he didn’t like they flesh consumed or some shit? Getting mad because he finds gzdoom’s options confusing? Calling him wrong for saying hi-res and widescreen feel vanilla? Going off on gatekeeping because of hyperbolic comments on uv and kB/m?

Gman’s review was inaccurate and frankly, not particularly good. But a fifteen minute critique that feels like it fills half its runtime looking for things to complain about rather than focusing on the provably false claims manages to feel like an overreaction.

I guess I’m just perplexed why people care so much what Gman has to say? I’ve never been too keen on his stuff, I noticed the inaccuracies in his review almost immediately and ... forgot about it within thirty minutes. 

1 minute ago, deepthaw said:

It was going to the effort of putting up an onscreen counter because he didn’t like they flesh consumed or some shit? Getting mad because he finds gzdoom’s options confusing? Calling him wrong for saying hi-res and widescreen feel vanilla? Going off on gatekeeping because of hyperbolic comments on uv and kB/m?

Anger and hyperbole would certainly be accurate statements had Doomkid done such things, which he did not. He was pretty calm and constructive throughout the entire thing. You'd know that had you watched, or are you just making stuff up to discredit Doomkid? Because that's how you're coming across right now.

2 minutes ago, deepthaw said:

a fifteen minute critique that feels like it fills half its runtime looking for things to complain about rather than focusing on the provably false claims manages to feel like an overreaction.

This is either an admittance that you didn't watch the video properly or you're just making baseless assumptions because, again, besides the dumb Beatles joke nitpick which I've already given you, Doomkid did a very thorough job debunking every provable false claim and did so in a perfectly calm, rational manner. So again, you're either making shit up to bat for Gman to attempt to discredit Doomkid and make him look like a reactionary dickhead when he didn't even so much as raise his voice once throughout the video, or you're admitting you barely paid attention to the video or watched it at all.

Just now, Biodegradable said:

 

Anger and hyperbole would certainly be accurate statements had Doomkid done such things, which he did not. He was pretty calm and constructive throughout the entire thing. You'd know that had you watched, or are you just making stuff up to discredit Doomkid? Because that's how you're coming across right now.

 

 

This is either an admittance that you didn't watch the video properly or you're just making baseless assumptions because, again, besides the dumb Beatles joke nitpick which I've already given you, Doomkid did a very thorough job debunking every provable false claim and did so in a perfectly calm, rational manner. So again, you're either making shit up to bat for Gman to attempt to discredit Doomkid and make him look like a reactionary dickhead when he didn't even so much as raise his voice once throughout the video, or you're admitting you barely paid attention to the video or watched it at all.

The hyperbole was in reference to Gman’s claims that ultra violence is the true way to play and other nonsense he spouts to sound edgy. I’m not trying to bat for a frankly not very good YouTube. 

I did watch the entire thing (doom kid talks about how unity doom uses Roland sc-55 samples while gzdoom uses weirdly bass boosted Windows samples, he talks about friends who play on controllers, he talked about how Gman seemed unaware of Odamax, etc)

I think gman’s review was poor and riddled with inaccuracies and that doomkid’s critique was a weirdly unnecessary overreaction that complained about irrelevant stuff in between the actual issues. People seem unable to grasp that I can like neither of the videos and find the whole situation perplexing. My entire reaction can be summed up as: does it really take a fifteen minute YouTube video to say Gman’s wrong about something?

I think I’ve spent more time talking about these videos than it took to watch both of them. That’s my cue to be done.

Just now, deepthaw said:

 

I think I’ve spent more time talking about these videos than it took to watch both of them. That’s my cue to be done.

Ok... I’m just gonna say it.. you are calling it quits because you have no argument. 

I do think the video kind of went a bit into the "Let's make fun of" territory. I kind of get how it could be taken the wrong way. But, I do not think it was intentional nor the point. I can only hope Gman comes back with a cool head and realise that himself. 

7 minutes ago, deepthaw said:

doomkid’s critique was a weirdly unnecessary overreaction that complained about irrelevant stuff in between the actual issues.

Could you highlight any more of these supposed "irrelevant stuff" though? Besides the Beatles gag nitpick, I didn't see any.

7 minutes ago, deepthaw said:

My entire reaction can be summed up as: does it really take a fifteen minute YouTube video to say Gman’s wrong about something?

Given the amount of things he got wrong and Doomkid wanting to make sure he accurately debunked the misinformation with enough detail to explain in a clear and thorough manner, especially for people who don't have a great deal of working knowledge around Doom's various engine quirks, sourceports and other related information similar to Gman himself? Yes, absolutely.

3 minutes ago, deepthaw said:

I think gman’s review was poor and riddled with inaccuracies and that doomkid’s critique was a weirdly unnecessary overreaction that complained about irrelevant stuff in between the actual issues. People seem unable to grasp that I can like neither of the videos and find the whole situation perplexing. My entire reaction can be summed up as: does it really take a fifteen minute YouTube video to say Gman’s wrong about something?

Well if a video is "riddled with inaccuracies" then it's going to take more than a couple of minutes to properly address them all. There's nothing wrong with wanting to do it properly and comprehensively address the smaller inaccuracies alongside the larger ones. I notice that you haven't actually pointed out which of the "actual issues" that the video missed out on. I assume because in fact there aren't any.

22 minutes ago, deepthaw said:

does it really take a fifteen minute YouTube video to say Gman’s wrong about something?

The format of the video uses extended snippets of the original, and the rebuttable can be expected to be longer than the snippet itself.  Given the format, I would have been shocked if the rebuttable video was shorter than the original.  1.5x seems like a reasonable target to hit.

Writing a script is hard.  Editing is hard.  From that CGP Grey video:

Quote

"If I had more time, I would have written a shorter letter." -Mark Twain

I think the thing that bugs me about his defense that he was using gzdoom as the baseline from comparison is that he was acting like gzdoom was the original. Things like the new secret sound are a "change", not a "new feature" (that's different than the new feature zdoom added long ago). Things like how the console was "removed", and how the music sounds "weird" compared to gzdoom (I wonder if he'd freak out if he heard the music being played back with opl synthesis...). This, alongside a lack of a clear "When compared to GZDoom," ever being mentioned in the video, makes me think that was just an excuse and he really did misremember things. I dunno, maybe I'm reading too much into it, I'm glad he can at least admit he made a mistake, even if it's not the cleanest means, but this was so poorly thought out and it really doesn't improve my low opinion of gmanlives any.

That said I do wonder a little if the new secret sound was designed to evoke the zdoom one, if only a little. It's a similar concept, a big bong sound, but it's quite different enough I'm not entirely sure.

I agree with all your points except the removal of the swastika. I abhor censorship in any form, and while yes like you I am glad more people get to play it in Germany where it is banned, the removal and alteration of the Wolfenstein levels is still censorship and taking away from what the original designers intended. I don't know why Bethesda/Id couldn't have just removed and replaced it for the German version, and instead still subject us to these changes. For Christ sake if the Swastika can be shown in the new Wolfenstein games, it boggles the mind it can't be shown in a 25 year old game.

1 minute ago, Tony_Danza_the_boss said:

For Christ sake if the Swastika can be shown in the new Wolfenstein games, it boggles the mind it can't be shown in a 25 year old game.

I do find the rules around it strange - it would be one thing if the map was an endorsement of Nazis, but it's clearly not, it's just an old vaguely WWII themed DOS game. I think context should be taken into consideration for things like this, and here it seems pretty silly. I don't hold that against the developers at all though, they were just doing what they had to do for the game to get it's ESRB rating and approval and all of that stuff - dotting i's and crossing t's. I think there's an argument to be made that some of the laws should be slightly amended in that area, but I didn't want to point it out as a negative against the port because the devs are really not the ones responsible for the laws surrounding this issue.

38 minutes ago, Doomkid said:

I do find the rules around it strange - it would be one thing if the map was an endorsement of Nazis, but it's clearly not, it's just an old vaguely WWII themed DOS game. I think context should be taken into consideration for things like this, and here it seems pretty silly. I don't hold that against the developers at all though, they were just doing what they had to do for the game to get it's ESRB rating and approval and all of that stuff - dotting i's and crossing t's. I think there's an argument to be made that some of the laws should be slightly amended in that area, but I didn't want to point it out as a negative against the port because the devs are really not the ones responsible for the laws surrounding this issue.

1. It's not an ESRB thing, they don't care.

2. The rule about it is more the individual countries (like Germany, but they aren't the only one) that regulate the use of Nazi imagery do so on a case by case basis. It's not that it isn't a problem for Wolfenstein, far from it, but rather for Wolfenstein they are prepared to go through the review process because it's fucking Wolfenstein (note that they still created two versions of the art). For Doom however, for an single easter egg? That they can easily change the slight visual of and produce an otherwise identical effect of the initial intention? Yeah they might as well just edit it.

8 hours ago, Doomkid said:

LOL I can’t take credit for that hilarious thumbnail sadly, other than slapping Phoenix Wright on it. At least his thumbnail skills are top of the shelf!

Put some boobs slightly related to the topic of the video into the thumbnail. Skills raised immediately. :-D

1 hour ago, Doomkid said:

Nah deepthaw was right, I was furiously mad when I made the rebuttal video. You can tell at some points that I’m angry because my whispering into the mic gets really aggressive!

 

(lol what, the dude said “controller players are dead to me” and was dropping F bombs, forgive me for thinking a WTF counter and a jokingly made intermission screen wouldn’t be enough to offend him.. which was frankly not my goal..)

Yeah, but you had a point here. While my own opinion, based upon my own experience, still is that nothing beats the mouse/keyboard combination, the game is played with game controllers since ages. Even with controllers which didn't fit this genre like the genesis or snes pad. And let's not forget that even the DOS version supported Joysticks and stuff.

Not related to Gman's bullshit,
We need to make more maps with like the one played in the video.