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hidfan

Doom Neural Upscale 2X [v 1.0]

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3 hours ago, Soundblock said:

Can I just say in here that I think hidfan's upscale pack should be included as a "high-res" option in Bethesda's Unity wrapper for Doom, that they now seem somewhat dedicated to? No idea of the technical/legal feasability of such though.

 

From what I've been told, I don't think the vanilla engine can handle the resources.

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1 hour ago, Gifty said:

I was thinking exactly the same thing after the Unity wrapper made it to PC. I think a semi-officialized X2 pack with proper artistic cleanup would be fantastic.

 

I tried cleaning up the Satyr upscale, blending in the original source photo and a cleaner noise base for the metal section. If it looks strange it's because I didn't re-add all the green. Pretty pleased with it.

 

before/after with the '93 original:

 

Yeah, I do enjoy some of your original texture efforts Gifty, but when it comes to upscaling the original Doom art I'm super extremely picky to the nth degree. I only think idfan, armed with his beta access to NVIDIA's neural network wizardry (which to my understanding has already changed quite a bit since he implemented his upscale for both OG games), ever got it quite right.

 

As an example, your fountain edit contains what I interpret as changes to the height data on the surface of the stone (which I take to be the same surface type as the marble1 texture) :

 

critique.jpg.2c55bbaae825d5fba5471eb7517ba535.jpg

 

Changing the marbling pattern to creases/bumps/ridges is a big no-no for me personally. I have similar aversions to just almost every other effort that hidfan didn't do.

 

Just my personal takes on the original art, but there you have it. Sorry, real nitpick over here.

 

1 hour ago, Scuba Steve said:

 

From what I've been told, I don't think the vanilla engine can handle the resources.

 

Oof. Figured as much. Wouldn't want it implemented over demo compatability or anything. Oh well.

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I agree that the emboss was a little crazy on that texture and I've gone back to the drawing board on that one, but this touches on a dilemma inherent to low-res art; when upscaled, a lot of it inevitably comes out as warbly gibberish that doesn't really look like anything. If any of that stuff is going to be cleaned up so that it looks like art again, making some artistic calls as to the original intention of the texture is pretty much unavoidable. A proper cleanup job that's 100% true and faithful beyond a shadow of a doubt is pretty much impossible.

 

That being said, I agree with your assessment and started over on all the marble stuff I was working on. I think this is a step closer to the right direction (still tweaking it). I've also started crunching all my work down to Doom palette to help reduce a lot of the weird multi-color mosquito noise produced by the upscaling machine.

MarbleMaster.png

Edited by Gifty

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Apologies for jumping into this thread like this, but I just found an interesting ESRGAN model called lollypop (you can get it here) that produces some quite interesting results with textures. I ran a sample of Doom II wall textures for a test (they've not been checked for tiling), then palettised with mtPaint and scaled back to 2x the original size using nearest neighbour:

2xBIGDOOR1_lollypop.png.e7e241eb69de41b69db454cff45db444.png2xGSTONE1_lollypop.png.098cdab66cca7edeaa6c5006d209a1de.png2xMARBLE3_lollypop.png.7aceab1094e2c78ab28f7fb2b2f90858.png2xTEKGREN3_lollypop.png.5a745449c54e6edc7bee19af8122caa0.png2xTEKWALL1_lollypop.png.d66564c1bf9e019782b5a98fab114fc6.png2xWOOD10_lollypop.png.3e7c87bc211ddc1fcb8ae5084d5466fb.png2xWOODMET2_lollypop.png.3ada0dabea67e15376739eeeefc346c9.png

I'd say these are much better results than I would get with earlier models that try to imitate "realistic" textures, although they're admittedly not perfect. The model also tends to make colours a bit darker.

 

I've no idea what they look like in-game though.

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Those look quite a bit less noisy and chaotic than a lot of other results, particularly on that tekwall and wood textures. I'm intrigued!

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Part of the accuracy in upscaling Doom's textures is the noise. Some upscales are simply too... flawless? and fail to mimic the low-fi, scanned-photograph appearance of the classic textures. There's a delicate balance to high resolution Doom art; if it's too clean, the aesthetic of the game changes and it no longer feels like Doom.

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4 hours ago, Scuba Steve said:

There's a delicate balance to high resolution Doom art; if it's too clean, the aesthetic of the game changes and it no longer feels like Doom.

Somewhere was lost the explanation: this is a personal opinion which does not pretend for objectivity and may completely disagree with the opinion of others.

Everyone has their own perception of such things.

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2 minutes ago, Scuba Steve said:

Of course it's my opinion

It's a good one, nonetheless.

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1 hour ago, Scuba Steve said:

I can write out a more detailed rationale for the preservation of Doom's classic aesthetic.

This is not necessary, since it will have absolutely no effect on my opinion.

Such conservatism is mostly restrictive and contradicts to the spirit of mod making. It's has the right to exist but no more.

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On 9/15/2020 at 5:27 AM, Scuba Steve said:

Part of the accuracy in upscaling Doom's textures is the noise. Some upscales are simply too... flawless? and fail to mimic the low-fi, scanned-photograph appearance of the classic textures. There's a delicate balance to high resolution Doom art; if it's too clean, the aesthetic of the game changes and it no longer feels like Doom.

I'd say this is more of a general issue within the Single Image Super-Resolution problem. Basically, whenever a digital image gets scaled down, some part of information/detail is irrevocably lost. However the human eye/mind can still guess certain details from just a handful of pixels on the low-res image. Conversely, the neural networks that are built to restore images to the original/higher resolution still mostly rely on very basic processing of the input data, and either have to add quasi-random noise to make the output more close to the originals, or simply fail to make proper sense of the low-res parts. This is where the washed-out, clean upscales come from.

 

I believe that networks which have a semantic component to them may fare better, at least theoretically. That is, they identify parts of the image first as meaningful objects, and then process these parts according to which objects they recognise. I think Google has some AI setups which are capable of that (IIRC this is how they produced hallucinated images). But to the best of my knowledge, ESRGAN doesn't.

 

But even if networks have this semantic ability, when applied to video game content this is compounded by the fact that such material often contains imaginary objects that have no counterparts in real life. Remember how that face upscaling network mistook a character's cape of the cloak for red hair? This is because that particular AI was not trained to "see" anything but hair on people's heads. Similarly, such AIs are likely to fail on video game graphics unless you specifically train them to recognise imps, gargoyles and stuff like that -- again, more complicated than it is with real-life objects because there are as many different gargoyles as there are artists who draw them.

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1 hour ago, MrFlibble said:

Similarly, such AIs are likely to fail on video game graphics unless you specifically train them to recognise imps, gargoyles and stuff like that

 

You can see that in the DoomImp neural upscaled version in this very thread. The models the algorithm was trained on obviously did not contain any spikes or thorns, so many mistakes were made. Eg a knee spike on a left leg drawn in front of the right leg was interpreted as a detail of the right leg and thus cut off entirely from the left leg.

 

 

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On 9/15/2020 at 3:30 AM, Doomenator said:

Somewhere was lost the explanation: this is a personal opinion which does not pretend for objectivity and may completely disagree with the opinion of others.

Everyone has their own perception of such things.

 

.......okay? And?

 

Seriously, thank you for pointing out that Scuba Steve's opinion is Scuba Steve's opinion, I had no idea.

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3 hours ago, TheMagicMushroomMan said:

.......

Just a modest misconception should not sound so categorical. 

Thank you for not understanding the essence and giving birth to another useless post. )

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3 hours ago, Doomenator said:

Just a modest misconception should not sound so categorical. 

Thank you for not understanding the essence and giving birth to another useless post. )

 

r/iamverysmart

 

Seriously, I keep seeing these posts from you where you act like a condescending narcissist. Earlier I read a post by you on another thread where you told someone they should throw out their computer and buy a console because they asked about a ZIP file. Because I'm sure when you got your first PC you knew everything already. You aren't that special and you don't come across as being as intellectual as you seem to think you are. Using a lot of synonyms to insult people doesn't make you look smart, and I hope the mods do something about you. Most of your posts don't even make any sense. There was no "modest misconception" and nothing was stated as being "categorical". I'm sorry I don't understand the "essence" of your "useless posts" you insist on "giving birth to".

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erm.. anyway.. just wanted to say I'm thoroughly enjoying all these pics you guys are posting. Keep checking in every few weeks to see how it's going.

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Hey guys, I can't get this mod to work. It's just not loading properly, if at all. Whatever's going on is breaking a lot of older mods, not just this one. I can't run older versions of Johnny doom, mix smooth doom with SmoothDoomHudWeap4XUP, etc.

 

edit: Found the problem. I think an outdated version of smoothdoom was overwriting/disabling textures, additionally the newer version overwrites the monster graphics, but the extra animations look better on most of the monsters, aside from mainly the bosses which look better using only the texture pack.

 

Someone needs to update smooth doom for the 2x graphics, including the HD weapon mod, which is also broken and needs several adjustments to work.

 

I don't know how to edit these mods other than disabling what is breaking compatibility, but if anyone can tell me how to do it, I might be able to fix the issues. The problem seems to be related to scripting and how mods change variable names or dependencies, which ignores the new textures.

Edited by DefectiveByDesign

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On 12/22/2018 at 9:31 AM, Hellbent said:

One other thing: BIGDOOR7 has some visual glitch at the bottom of the door. You can see this at the beginning of E3M8.

 

Yeah, to reiterate there's a glitch in the texture drawing of BIGDOOR7 rooted in the weird-ass way doom.wad composed the texture by re-using a 128x136 patch. Ultimate Doom E3M4:

 

I7stJTFl.png

 

I just discovered this alongside a conversation with boris about the DB2 family of editors not considering this Doom "bug" (or error correction): https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Vertical_offsets_are_ignored_in_texture_patches

  • in doom.wad & doom2.wad, W105_1 is a 128x136 patch
  • IWAD doom.wad:
    • the patch is applied to the BIGDOOR7 texture twice at (-4, -4) and (125, -5)
    • however, Doom ignores the negative Y offsets so it becomes (-4, 0) and (125, 0)
  • IWAD doom2.wad
    • applies W105_1 (-5, 0) and (123, 0) so these alignments are unaffected

According to the wiki article, the Doom II's STEP2 re-use of patch SW11_4 would also affected but NeuralUpdate2x_v1.0.pk3 already has a GZDoom texture filter workaround for that.

 

It looks like the downscale didn't consider the W105_1 patch's odd dimensions as it glitched when cropped and resized:

 

MZyY4by.png

 

It would have to be regenerated and edited to be similar to `WOOD5` with half `SUPPORT3` patches along each edge; 24 pixels thick in a 256x256 texture.

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44 minutes ago, Scuba Steve said:

Correct?

Yup, that's it.

 

I have no clue why the original IWAD texture was assembled in such a complicated way. A single plain 128x128 patch would have even taken up less disk space.

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Hey, really loving the look of this upscale, but is there any way to turn individual sprite swaps off? I tried running it with Project Brutality, and about 95% of the mod works great with it, but the replaced weapons override PB's custom reskins which is a bit jarring, and I've noticed a few objects where the Neural Reskin's textures seem to conflict with PB. The most immediate one I've noticed is the candelabra objects, which seem to flicker back and forth between the two versions. If I could individually pick which swaps to disable, this would be just about perfect for what I'd like out of a Doom upscale.

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On 12/7/2020 at 6:22 PM, Afterglow said:

IWAD doom.wad:

  • the patch is applied to the BIGDOOR7 texture twice at (-4, -4) and (125, -5)

According to SLADE 3.1.11, it's actually applied twice at (-4, -4) and (124, -4)

 

Not that it makes much of a difference, but at least it's at the same Y position...

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On 12/12/2020 at 10:57 PM, The_Hyphenator said:

Hey, really loving the look of this upscale, but is there any way to turn individual sprite swaps off? I tried running it with Project Brutality, and about 95% of the mod works great with it, but the replaced weapons override PB's custom reskins which is a bit jarring, and I've noticed a few objects where the Neural Reskin's textures seem to conflict with PB. The most immediate one I've noticed is the candelabra objects, which seem to flicker back and forth between the two versions. If I could individually pick which swaps to disable, this would be just about perfect for what I'd like out of a Doom upscale.

 

Is there any announcement / info / hope that Team PB will make a similar upscale of their own to cover all the extra sprites and animations?

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On 2/25/2021 at 5:41 AM, eierfrucht said:

 

Is there any announcement / info / hope that Team PB will make a similar upscale of their own to cover all the extra sprites and animations?

Until and if they even consider it, it's possible to edit the PB mod to disable conflicting decoration objects. Other than the increased monster variety, I'm not a fan of this mod. They add too many redundant and useless weapons, balancing is rather poor, and many replaced decoration graphics like the pickups look terrible. They also don't use voxels, which at this point is a requirement for me to use a doom mod. Total conversions are excused, but not supporting voxels in a "modern" doom mod is poor taste. Smooth Doom is ultimately superior for graphics and gameplay.

 

I wonder about wadsnip being used to upscale mods like this, but the documentation is lacking for regular people, not to mention lack of binaries, and requirement to compile your own binary files. The utility is mostly unusable for non programmers. It might produce better results using the lollypop model instead of waifu, which looks like glorified xBRZ. Lastly, the utility doesn't support OpenCL/Vulkan, so performance will be terrible on any non-nvidia system. I'd try to use it regardless, but the lack of pk3 documentation and binaries make it near impossible. It hasn't been updated since 2019 either, so future updates should consider modernization and usability improvements. Until then, Cupscale can be used, but it is not designed for doom files like wadsnip.

 

Considering the lack of mod updates and gzdoom changes, I wonder if upscaling is dead. GZDoom in particular seems to have removed texture compression and ruined performance in newer versions. Texture compression is pretty important for keeping upscale mods viable on low vram hardware, and performance regression on anything not pro-vulkan is also bad. Hardware today is hard to come by, and many people still use old cards. Doom went from running on a 486 and ported to SNES, to requiring expensive and unavailable RTX nvidia cards. Those people lucky enough to have one probably don't care about doom either, so gzdoom is clearly taking the wrong approach, and no other engine is compatible with these mods. Unless people start making doom accessible again, I think enthusiasm will die off, as it seems to have already peaked.

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On 3/5/2021 at 6:45 AM, DefectiveByDesign said:

Until and if they even consider it, it's possible to edit the PB mod to disable conflicting decoration objects. Other than the increased monster variety, I'm not a fan of this mod. They add too many redundant and useless weapons, balancing is rather poor, and many replaced decoration graphics like the pickups look terrible. They also don't use voxels, which at this point is a requirement for me to use a doom mod. Total conversions are excused, but not supporting voxels in a "modern" doom mod is poor taste. Smooth Doom is ultimately superior for graphics and gameplay.

In my opinion, the weapon pick up sprites in Project Brutality look a lot better than most pickup sprites, they could be possibly compared to Build engine based pickup sprites. Balance is also subjected to change, as that mod is still a WIP. The voxels in PB are actually not voxels, but rather polymesh models that are converted to md3 format, as models are more optimized compared to true voxels. These "voxels" can be toggled with a key or in the settings. I won't explain it any further, as I don't want to bring any form of cross mod drama here.

Edit: Some of the decoration sprites are also subjected to change, along with the effects, as most of the Decorations and effects are borrowed from Brutal Doom. Project Brutality is slowly separating itself from BD, while still use portions of it as a base. Also, voxels are supported by the GZDoom engine, not the mod. Unfortunately though true voxels are horribly unoptimized, even having three or more voxels can slow the engine to a crawl, making it borderline unplayable. Voxels that are converted to md3 are way more optimized and less taxing to the engine. Brutal Doom v21's tanks are also low poly md3 models, and I'm sure other mods also use models instead of true voxels.

Edited by JMartinez2098

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Yeah, "voxels" have a performance hit, so that explains a lot. They haven't been officially supported since 3dfx era hardware and games, and the tech hasn't gone anywhere since. I doubt true voxels perform worse than converted voxels, it's more likely that the gzdoom guys don't know how to implement it, being a dead technology. The most modern use of voxels would be voxel based global illumination for raytracing, while actual voxel engines seem to be dead.

 

That said, Ken Silverman has made some demos and released source code for voxels, but I don't think anyone has done anything with it, other than voxelstein.

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