NuMetalManiak Posted September 16, 2020 26 minutes ago, Deadwing said: Woah... do you have the full list? D: Spoiler For 2020 BTSX E2 (counting the idgames release here) Nova 3 Akeldama OOPS: All Techbase Modest Mapping Challenge Czechbox Texture Extravaganza SINERGY The 64 kb challenge Hellforge Speedmapping Session 1 Deep Into the Massacre Short Maps for Short People 2 Death in Excess SlaughterMAX Interception 2 Mayhem 2020 1000 Lines 2 Project KINDa If you wanna count both megawads in 64 kb that would be 19 by the way. Also even GZDoom does have the issue with HOMs as I said earlier. 6 Share this post Link to post
Deadwing Posted September 16, 2020 There's also 25 years of Doom. A lot of megawads indeed... 0 Share this post Link to post
P41R47 Posted September 16, 2020 12 minutes ago, NuMetalManiak said: Reveal hidden contents For 2020 BTSX E2 (counting the idgames release here) Nova 3 Akeldama OOPS: All Techbase Modest Mapping Challenge Czechbox Texture Extravaganza SINERGY The 64 kb challenge Hellforge Speedmapping Session 1 Deep Into the Massacre Short Maps for Short People 2 Death in Excess SlaughterMAX Interception 2 Mayhem 2020 1000 Lines 2 Project KINDa If you wanna count both megawads in 64 kb that would be 19 by the way. I would like to add CPD by @Cheesewheel that list, its a really low profile limit removing megawad much in the vein of Vile Flesh. It is just a map away from completion, and then it would need a little balance in difficulties. I'm really digging it and i found really strange that it isn't more known as it it really good. That list also need to add Three is a Crowd by @Scypek2, another really amazing megawad. On topic about this megawad here, i will post later in my afternoon a list of finding about it. 4 Share this post Link to post
galileo31dos01 Posted September 16, 2020 Someone asked for screenies and I took the liberty to provide a thick photoshoot of all maps since there are really lots of nice views and I couldn't quite resist. In nomonsters of course. 9 Share this post Link to post
Deadwing Posted September 16, 2020 Awesome @galileo31dos01 That actually looks better than what I was expecting... Some nice detailing there 0 Share this post Link to post
Doomkid Posted September 16, 2020 (edited) Dang, I'm hurt that Rowdy Rudy II didn't make the cut for this year's list of megawads! Also those screenshots perfectly capture the feeling of this wad. For those weary of stuff using stock assets I guess it doesn't have much appeal, but this is a fantastic "new-age classic style" sorta wad we got here! Even though they haven't posted in this thread yet I'd like to thank @TheMightyWhoosh for this contribution. 1 Share this post Link to post
TheLetterTen Posted September 16, 2020 2 hours ago, galileo31dos01 said: Someone asked for screenies and I took the liberty to provide a thick photoshoot of all maps since there are really lots of nice views and I couldn't quite resist. In nomonsters of course. Thank you so much for this! This megawad looks well designed! 1 Share this post Link to post
P41R47 Posted September 16, 2020 (edited) On 9/15/2020 at 12:44 PM, P41R47 said: Yeah, i also notice that the maps could easily be vanilla compatible. GZDoom is recommended just because there is a mapinfo inside, but the author said to not know if it is playable on other ports. I will try the fixed graphic version i made in chocolate. I'm pretty sure it is almost full compatible with it. I did a little bug testing on this. But there are some crashes: -Mapset crash on some ports because of a few assets: BOSSBACK, TITLEPIC, CREDIT, and INTERPIC are all the same graphic and it is on a really strange size (500x233) making some ports crash from startup (Chocolate, DoomRetro). Then the M_DOOM graphic, a transparent placeholder, makes crash Chocolate, not because it can't display it, but for the strange offset it has (x:-158, y:243) If one fix this to regular things, (320x200 TITLEPIC et all, and 0 offset for M_DOOM) it load without problem on Chocolate Doom. Now to the maps -Map03 crash because too many scroll textures. -map09 crash with R_TextureNumForName: CRSMB not Found! -map10 visplane overflow just at the starting point. -map13 too many scrolling walls -map15 has a visplane overflow -map31 has a visplane overflow -map18 unknown texture CUBICLE -map20 has an unknown crash upon start up (probably vpo) -map21 doesn't crash, but has a charming or unintentional tribute to WOW.wad check it out: -map22 has a lot of HOM by drawseg overflow and is unbeatable because of an unreacheable skull. -map23 crash on VPO -map24 in unbeateable, starts to glitch out after a while without crashing. -map26 has too many scrolling walls. -map28 crash on VPO -map29 crash on too many scrolling walls. -map30 crash on vpo. Half the map is pretty much vanilla compatible, but i wouldn't say it for sure because i didn't make and in depth bug testing. As far as i seen while checking this, the megawad has some really nice visuals and even tributes to some doom 2 maps. Its not anything marvelous, but its an awesome surprise. (unintentional bug or a deliberated WOW.wad reference?) 3 Share this post Link to post
NuMetalManiak Posted September 16, 2020 8 hours ago, P41R47 said: I would like to add CPD by @Cheesewheel that list, its a really low profile limit removing megawad much in the vein of Vile Flesh. It is just a map away from completion, and then it would need a little balance in difficulties. I'm really digging it and i found really strange that it isn't more known as it it really good. That list also need to add Three is a Crowd by @Scypek2, another really amazing megawad. On topic about this megawad here, i will post later in my afternoon a list of finding about it. 1 hour ago, Doomkid said: Dang, I'm hurt that Rowdy Rudy II didn't make the cut for this year's list of megawads! Also those screenshots perfectly capture the feeling of this wad. For those weary of stuff using stock assets I guess it doesn't have much appeal, but this is a fantastic "new-age classic style" sorta wad we got here! Even though they haven't posted in this thread yet I'd like to thank @TheMightyWhoosh for this contribution. I didn't include anything that didn't get an idgames release, but these would take the count of 2020 megawads up to 21 (22 if we count both 64kb wads). So we did overcome 20 megawads for 2020! Neato. 4 Share this post Link to post
TwilySparky Posted September 17, 2020 Honestly, the megawad is fine so far. The only thing that really pissed me off was spending 20 minutes on map 18 trying to figure out what the fuck to do. 3 Share this post Link to post
Hypnotik Posted September 17, 2020 Just for the heck of it, I played it a little bit on Crispy and Woof!. Seemed to work fine on those ports, and looks good! totally dig it. And the mystery behind it makes it even more interesting. Hope they continue to make more! 0 Share this post Link to post
galileo31dos01 Posted September 17, 2020 12 minutes ago, TheTaZe said: Honestly, the megawad is fine so far. The only thing that really pissed me off was spending 20 minutes on map 18 trying to figure out what the fuck to do. Same here, the progression choices the mapper had are, something else indeed (not to the level of Armadosia, thankfully). It helps that I understand gzdoom builder so when in huge doubt, I grab the thing and search for the solution, as tedious as it could be. 2 hours ago, P41R47 said: (unintentional bug or a deliberated WOW.wad reference?) Did not have that happen in crispy, floor popped up fine. I may do a list like yours as well once I'm done with the wad, the experience in crispy is very cute when you find the one broken thing has a very easy fix (: 3 Share this post Link to post
galileo31dos01 Posted September 18, 2020 (edited) So, I finnished it on Crispy Doom, pistol start, ultra violence. I have mixed feelings about some gameplay choices, though as an overall I see myself giving it another try another time. It has that old-school flavor with touches of modern-ish varied architecture and odd but acceptable texturing, making for neat "photogenic" vistas. The gameplay is in conflict between trying to be chill (which would totally be on continuous), and for cautious movements because of the thing resource balance. It does engaging incidental combat with most generally low HP junk -- imps, zombie types, pinkies, lost souls--, where anything ranging from revenant to cyberdemon HP wise is used more sparingly and rarely in particular events, these sometimes make the bulk of "progression blockers" but not in a boring way, save for maybe those twins lone barons here and there. The real danger is the hitscanners, no surprise, but these raise their voices even louder with such razor thin health balance. I found myself dying to them more than anything else, if only because finding a fucking medikit somewhere was like looking for that lost pair of socks in your bedroom. Teleport ambushes usually include lots of chaingunners and shotgunners, even in the vast open. So caution is required sometimes, but it won't always be enough to save you from rng chip damage, so get secret hunting and eventually a hidden megasphere will be your only savior. Random comments time! Spoiler - I loved the lighting. Yes, it isn't groundbreaking -mostly seemingly within "vanilla" constraints despite what the mapper used for testing-, but they didn't stick to one only motif and instead drew as many different light sources of many shapes as they could where those would fit, and that's what I liked the most. I found the pixel-perfect shadows behind midbars hilarious. One particular simplistic neat detail was a crate room in map 27 with only one diamond-shaped bulb in the centre, thought that was good economy :p - Low heighted mazes/corridors are common, very common. It felt weird to have the skybox tickling my head, lol. - While pistol starts are perfectly doable, it is obvious that the mapper planned for carryovers for their own comfort, maybe because it's their preferred method. This is valid of course, although there's a moment where carrying 600 cells without the existence of the gun in the map(s) feels "heavier" than it should imo. Reminds me to old wads like "The Abyss", or even TNT and Plutonia did that, although the latter encouraged SSG usage more often than KINDa did, so there's a bit of grinding cacos and hell knight to do with the shotgun (save chaingun for the hitscanners!). - Some ideas of progression can be difficult to understand at first sight, to say the least. Backtrack is a thing, again not to the level of Armadosia, but the further in the wad the closer to puzzle-ish it gets. NuMetalManiak hit the note about hidden switches, which may be not too common but still very much an occasional big roadblock for some less oriented people. I use the automap a lot so that helped, though sometimes I had to look at the editor when nothing looked like progress to me. This also applies to many secrets without visual/audible hints, or "hints" -e.g. a particular detailed texture used all over the map, oh but that one is the trigger! - Listening to the OG midis once again is fine, only when they suit the map, and a few times they didn't work to me personally. The E3M8 track from the get go was a no no, too noisy for an opener, and tnt04 in three latter maps and not belonging to any of them just made me ignore my favourite midi. On the other side, the quiet-ish E2M4 track in map 26 blended surprisingly well with the suspenseful tone of the map, as well as other TNT tracks in the more TNT-ish techbase maps. Personal tastes aside, I was left unsure if these were arbitrary choices or deliberately, the arrangement is kinda (hehe) like in Plutonia, though even Garrulismo has Guns 'n Roses music in it. - You can get backpacks in nearly all of the maps! whether they're needed or not depends on each player. - This is interesting, in all of the maps all the lines are flagged "block sound", but the mapper wisely used sound tunnels in the right places to wake up monsters when they need to. The "ambush" flag must have never been used then I believe. Now the damn "non-crispy-friendly" list! Spoiler 01. Very solid opener with fun incidental combat. Issue: The chainsaw platform is linked to a "lower to 8 above highest" switch, won't lower because it's adjacent to platform of the same height. Easy fix: Make a thin 1u wide sector between the two platforms of the same height as the lowest adjacent floor. 02. All good, we don't see the white textures that often and they look nice here. 03. Your sewers ordinance. Ammo/health are really tight without the secret RL. Blood fall spreading mud on green slime, wow :p 04. Alright layout, bit boring if you don't get the SSG soon. Issue: Softlock in secret megasphere room due to W1 teleport lines. Easy fix: Set them repeatable. 05: Again, alright. There's only one radsuit chain so a second trip needs to be rushed naked. Pinky horde is pointless. Issue: Mancubi stuck on the platforms preventing progression. Easy fix: Either raise the gap above 64u (manc height) but this render HOMs, or make smaller sectors that lower to reveal the mancubi on the ground. 06: Very Garrulismo-like layout, so that's nice. The SSG right at the exit had me motionless for 5 seconds. Issue: Midtexture bleeding outside. Easy fix: Raise/lower the light level of the sector by 1. Issue: Various keyed doors are S1 "door open stay (fast)" tagged 0, which link to every sector in the map also tagged 0, thus fucking everything in non-zdoom ports. Easy fix: Give the lines and doors a new tag to share. 07: Bit bland but alright. Low on resources even in the final room so, weaponize that baron I guess. 08: The infinite height of that hanging corpse was annoying. Otherwise, not bad, but too low on health to be fun aggressively, those cacos and hitscanners need to be treated seriously. 09: Nice stuff, always like crates! Early SSG for the SG haters :D 10: Nice setting. Only two radsuits and a great portion of lava (including non-liquid pain floors!!) is a little too tight, especially since it has to be crossed one last time naked to flip a switch. Better not loose too much soulsphere charge or it's a restart. 11: Partially reminded to Memento Mori here, open areas and rock textures everywhere. Progress starts to become puzzle-ish. Better run past the SMM if you want any use of the secret BFG. Issue: A wall behind the exit is shootable, tagged 0. Breaks everything, but you can still exit. Easy fix: Give different tags. 12: Lots of corridors with neat lights. You can bump the green armor earlier. Cheeky chaingunner trap. 13: Oh my god why, a hitscan-centric map with meager health, armor and a belated blur sphere? Fuck that rng. It must play better on continuous. Even the "switch does unknown thing elsewhere" syndrome towards the end. 14: Cool stuff. Green and blue armor next to each other is a strange decision. That "hidden" teleport to outside though... 15: Excellent use of the doom midi, this set the tone perfectly. I found out you can actually vile-jump towards the archvile, usually it's away from it. Secret exit is THE puzzle, so be watchful from the start, that's all I'm saying. 31: Setting is neat. You do need to think ahead if you want to survive, I did with 1% health. DON'T miss the green armor at the start. Issue: A linedef has action 38 with tag 0. Easy fix: Since it's unclear what it's meant to do, removing it seems to be fine. 32: The progression is getting insane, or else I just don't interpret things accordingly, but it never crossed my mind to check the bloodfall, it's not translucent dude! (says the guy who did the exact same thing in his first map :p). Though if it isn't that then it's the BK placement that may get some folks mad. Map is nice visually though. 16: Alright stuff. Massive hitscan warp is kind of dull without armor. Secret is so randomly hidden. Issue: A baron is stuck on a zombieman in a big sector, thus neither teleport. Easy fix: Remove the baron, it seems to be a mistake that it's there. 17: Such old-school design the house outdoors. That every map uses a different motif, in this case tan-centric textures, makes up for the lack of memorable encounters, even if they are fine as is. Finale is better skipped, too awkward to fight. 18: Lovely, until you're stuck wondering how the hell you get the BK. The arachnotron at the end of the looooong tunnel was funny. Not so much the four halfway, because it suits for a RL that you're given afterwards (unless the spiders don't clog the stairs, which they do). Final massive ambush has shit ton hitscanners in the open, so camping is forced, or just run to the exit. Can't even coax the cyber to kill them without you getting perforated. (EDIT: there IS a way to soften the hitscan storm, temporarily). Also tall infinite blocking bodies (: Issue: Weird thing, the last switch is supposed to raise lots of staircases, one to the exit and many in monster closets, but most break, and only few monsters manage to teleport. Also because of the nature of the setup, the teleportations happen slowly. Easy fix: Thankfully all of the staircases are at the same height so it's a matter of joining each twin step (meaning, joining sectors), tedious process. Maybe also a set outside of the map for control sectors too, not sure if needed though. 19: Really thought this was going to suck on pistol start, but it actually has weapons and health, just not in plain sight that is. Another hitscanner hell, featuring archviles this time (with some real dick placements). BLAKWALL theme reminds me of Vile Flesh. No plasma gun but tons of cells! Issue: Lifts in path "4" break because the archvile is sunken in the middle. Easy fix: Raise the gap a minimum of 56 units tall. 20: I liked running in the snaked corridors shooting at whatever was in front of me, if for a minute. Guess the memorable part is the gotcha infight. Also the shadow casting in the last room omg. 21: Hmm, okay stuff, nothing new, except maybe no armor at all (well, there is something, but good luck finding it). 22: Much better, or so it seemed. Flesh looks a little weird. The vigilant archvile makes the gimmick, though it's possible to neuter its role completely. Odd secrets again. Again, don't miss what's behind and next to your start. Issue: Yellow skull and megasphere are too close to higher sectors and render floating, thus preventing progress. Easy fix: Move them a bit away from those sectors. 23: Gorgeous large scaled rooms and mood. A bit deserted though, like I expected more monsters to fill the space but there were few skirmishes and done. Nice megasphere there. That one switch though, bit of an "Eternal Doom"-ism. Also you can bump the goodies in a platform that's meant to be a secret. 24: Somewhat reminded me of a PCorf map and KSutra, the red bricked houses and such. Very possible to have the cyber clog a staircase forever, unless you track it outside, just takes some time. Has some dickish teleport traps, like later teleporting between a revenant, imps and chaingunners in the back. Health is very low. Pain elemental ambush is silly. Issue: The SSG secret is behind a tagged 0 shootable wall. Obviously corrupts everything. Easy fix: Just make it a D1 wall, why so many shootable walls? Issue: There're several doors that open remotely via action 40 "ceiling raise to highest ceiling". Problem is they raise beyond the adjacent ceilings for some reason, like if they ignored them, and render subtle HOMs. Easy fix: Either leave them intact, since progress isn't broken, or use door actions instead, but I don't know how to fix the ceiling actions. 25: Loved the setting, not so much the dozens of ledge imps but that's my distaste for such imp usage, but the bloodbath theme is great. Ammo can wear very thin unless you trigger the "TNT" crusher maze quickly. The SMM is sooooo pointless, until the end when it does serve to kill goats. Issue: Lots of the same tagged 0 keyed door shenanigans, plus one shootable door also tagged 0 of course. Easy fix: Give tags! 26: Terrific monster of a map, if way too lowly populated. However, that progression was so unintuitive might annoy some folks, as it has dead ends, switches that do something miles away, and heavy backtrack. Armor is in secrets too! I still loved the layout and the midi choice fits well with the little fighting happening. Another negative is blocking corpses in the middle of the way in a couple spots. Issue: An arachnotron fails to teleport because the barrier doesn't lower for some reason. It's linked to a S1 "lower to 8 above highest" switch, which is also linked to something else, perhaps creating the conflict. Easy fix: Either a control sector for the barrier I suppose, or adding walkover lines in front of the switch as a separate trigger. Issue: One eye switch is impossible to flip because it's too close to a scroll texture. Easy fix: Either remove the scroll texture or make like a pillar with a gap for the switch. Or, make it shootable, the only option is action 24 G1 "floor raise to lowest ceiling" with the corresponding control sector. 27: Some kind of mines with bases around, nice shit. Gimmick in particular is lots of chaingunners teleporting in key spots. These aren't too terrible but you'd do better by leaving or using some kind of "shield", which is given in two opportunities at least. 28: Hmm, a start that pushes the player forward, that's a change of pace there. Depending on the door, you'll get this or that tool, so that's good. It is only marred by such strict health management with lots and lots of hitscanners and even a trio of archviles at the end which must be camped from relative safety. Otherwise the layout is great. Issue: A walkover linedef is too close to a door line which grants access to a backpack, preventing either to be activated. Easy fix: Give the walkover action to other lines. 29: Didn't find this one interesting. That it mixes multiple themes is fine, but the extreme linearity, no switch to the gameplay's low key combat, and great lack of health/armor during backtrack up to the exit rests a bunch of points, and the detailing, neat as it is, doesn't make up for them. I'm thinking of the map slot, if this was in the middle of the last stretch I might have liked it more. 30: A standard IoS setup that isn't annoying, wow. Secret is a must on pistol start. First room is a painful infight that's best skipped, lest you wanna die in loop waiting foor the SMM to switch to the cyber (rockets are needed anyways). Another recurrent issue in many maps is what NuMetal said about HOMs in windows, this is easily fixed by creating extra sectors adjacent to the windows so the skybox is properly displayed both in the editor and in-game. Edited September 19, 2020 by galileo31dos01 5 Share this post Link to post
TwilySparky Posted September 19, 2020 I played through the entire thing and let me give a few of my thoughts. This author REALLY loves teleporting in chaingunners on pretty much every map near the end. I do not like the constant switch hunting and being stuck on most maps because you have no idea where to look. Other than that, it's very brown most of the time which is fine but it's a bit boring after seeing it so much. 1 Share this post Link to post
Caleb13 Posted September 19, 2020 I tried this in latest GZdoom, but I still encountered at least two game-breaking bugs in MAP01-04. These maps also have too little ammo, I had to kill pinkies with normal fist to conserve it for ranged monsters. Ammo then suddenly becomes plentiful in MAP05 and the overall map quality improves, too. Shame, it could become pretty decent WAD with some polishing and bugfixing. Is there really no way to contact the author? Or at least let him know about this thread via IDgames admins? 0 Share this post Link to post
P41R47 Posted September 26, 2020 On 9/19/2020 at 6:28 PM, Caleb13 said: I tried this in latest GZdoom, but I still encountered at least two game-breaking bugs in MAP01-04. These maps also have too little ammo, I had to kill pinkies with normal fist to conserve it for ranged monsters. Ammo then suddenly becomes plentiful in MAP05 and the overall map quality improves, too. Shame, it could become pretty decent WAD with some polishing and bugfixing. Is there really no way to contact the author? Or at least let him know about this thread via IDgames admins? He is already here on the forums as @TheMightyWhoosh but he/she doesn't actively participate as of now in Doomworld. Try sending him a PM, maybe he/she will answer back By mentioning him/her i'm trying to call his/her atenttion, as Doomkid did a few days back, but there was no response either. If you ever read this, TheMightyWhoosh, you maye don't know it, but you can update your files that are already on /idgames. 0 Share this post Link to post
TheMightyWhoosh Posted November 7, 2020 (edited) Hi guys, Apologies for just getting back to this! Thanks for the constructive feedback to my little project. I actually had no intention of releasing this at all as I just enjoyed making maps; however at the last minute I thought it would be nice to see if I was actually any good at map making via constructive criticism. I honestly have no idea about source ports and the such - I literally downloaded what appeared to the the most popular version of Doom and Doom map editor and purely used those. I’m quite a newbie when it comes to technical stuff and I’ve never been a part of any Doom community to ask, until now. I’m pondering with the idea of a Kinda #2. I’ve also downloaded Chocolate Doom so in future, my old school-type maps will hopefully run with old school type-ports. Thanks again! Edited November 7, 2020 by TheMightyWhoosh 17 Share this post Link to post
P41R47 Posted December 4, 2020 On 11/7/2020 at 7:59 AM, TheMightyWhoosh said: Hi guys, Apologies for just getting back to this! Thanks for the constructive feedback to my little project. I actually had no intention of releasing this at all as I just enjoyed making maps; however at the last minute I thought it would be nice to see if I was actually any good at map making via constructive criticism. I honestly have no idea about source ports and the such - I literally downloaded what appeared to the the most popular version of Doom and Doom map editor and purely used those. I’m quite a newbie when it comes to technical stuff and I’ve never been a part of any Doom community to ask, until now. I’m pondering with the idea of a Kinda #2. I’ve also downloaded Chocolate Doom so in future, my old school-type maps will hopefully run with old school type-ports. Thanks again! No worries, pal! Your megawad is entertaining, fun, and has some really nice visuals ;) Your style reminds me os Sandy petersen, the author behind most maps of the original Doom 2, but with a little modern twist to them and some switch hunts too. The abstract design goes hand in hand with the abstract name of the maps. I would be waiting for a Kinda #2 ;) Maybe you will find Chocolate-Doom a little too restrictive, as it has the same limitations as the original DOOM2.EXE Seeing what you can do with your maps, just let yourself go with your creativity. :D If you want to make it playable on almost any port, just select Doom2 Format of map, and let your ideas run wild. 0 Share this post Link to post
dobu gabu maru Posted December 5, 2020 On 11/7/2020 at 5:59 AM, TheMightyWhoosh said: Hi guys I'd suggest looking at the list of bugs galileo posted, as it's an extremely extensive list that project leads would kill for. Plus your mapset looks really nice so it'd be cool if people could play it on a port of their choice. Super impressive work by the way, not every day newbies succeed on completing the megawad dream. Love a lot of your texture choices for your maps 2 Share this post Link to post
TheMightyWhoosh Posted December 8, 2020 Hi all, I’ve spent the day amending the maps as per the extremely helpful and very much appreciated feedback above. The maps all now work correctly with Crispy Doom; however I’m having trouble with the Chocolate Doom errors. I’ve researched about visplane overflows but cannot get my head around how to amend the maps, unless they are heavily edited to show less of the map at one time. Is that correct? My question really is, is it too much of an effort for my lazy self to amend the maps for Chocolate Doom when they now all work great with Crispy Doom? Thanks in advance guys. 3 Share this post Link to post
wrkq Posted December 8, 2020 TL;DR Chocolate Doom is true to the original DOS executable (aka vanilla), with all its limits preserved. Just about every other "conservative" port is "Limit Removing", which means that even if it may not have tons of fancy extra features, it will work with maps too large/complex for vanilla and choco. I believe majority of criticism in this thread was that you did built the maps very conservatively with vanilla-grade actions but accidentally made it require zdoom because of a few small things. Mark this updated version as "limit-removing needed, will hit visplane overflows in vanilla". If it works in crispy it will work in woof, prboom, and just about anything else that's in use these days. Possibly even including the official "Unity port" as that has various limits raised (not removed). :) 0 Share this post Link to post
galileo31dos01 Posted December 8, 2020 7 hours ago, TheMightyWhoosh said: My question really is, is it too much of an effort for my lazy self to amend the maps for Chocolate Doom when they now all work great with Crispy Doom? The effort you made to raise the possibilities of your wad to be fully playable in more source ports is already highly appreciated, since this also opens up potential for demo recording in the speedrun community. Now I wouldn't consider choco compatibility worth bothering with right now, simply because that comes with meticulously looking for visplanes and whatnot in 32 maps, or worse, having to redo some of them, and you can already get the "vanilla experience" in crispy or prboom (or doom2+ in dosbox I suppose). It is up to you though. Like wrkq said, just as long as it's well explained in the text file, people will know what source ports to use. 1 Share this post Link to post
P41R47 Posted December 8, 2020 7 hours ago, TheMightyWhoosh said: Hi all, I’ve spent the day amending the maps as per the extremely helpful and very much appreciated feedback above. The maps all now work correctly with Crispy Doom; however I’m having trouble with the Chocolate Doom errors. I’ve researched about visplane overflows but cannot get my head around how to amend the maps, unless they are heavily edited to show less of the map at one time. Is that correct? My question really is, is it too much of an effort for my lazy self to amend the maps for Chocolate Doom when they now all work great with Crispy Doom? Thanks in advance guys. Your maps are perfect as they are. So don't bother with making them Chocolate compatible. This kind of compatibility needs a lot of reworking. Your megawad, with the updates you made, is compatible with everything else. And no need to thanks, pal! Your update is more than appreciated ;) You use a MAPINFO lump to create the names of the different maps, if you want, i can help you create the graphic patches needed for them to appear on every port without a MAPINFO lump, as not every port read MAPINFO lumps. Along with any other graphic you need, just send me a PM, i can help you with some graphics like INTERPIC, BOSSBACK or so. 1 Share this post Link to post
Bryan T Posted December 9, 2020 I finally got around to playing this. I hate the progression. I spent way too much time staring at the map. I eventually gave up on map14 when I couldn't find the red key. 0 Share this post Link to post
galileo31dos01 Posted December 9, 2020 2 hours ago, Bryan T said: I finally got around to playing this. I hate the progression. I spent way too much time staring at the map. I eventually gave up on map14 when I couldn't find the red key. You have to press this switch, run straight to the east (looking at the automap) and take that teleport in the corner before the wall closes back. IIRC the RK appears somewhere afterwards. 0 Share this post Link to post
TheMightyWhoosh Posted December 22, 2020 Hi guys, I’m coming towards the end of making the WAD Crispy-friendly. Quick question - When the time comes, should I resubmit the WAD again to /idgames under KINDa.wad, or rename it to something like KINDa1b.wad/KINDaFINAL.wad? 3 Share this post Link to post
tmorrow Posted December 23, 2020 13 hours ago, TheMightyWhoosh said: should I resubmit the WAD again to /idgames under KINDa.wad, or rename it to something like KINDa1b.wad/KINDaFINAL.wad? Ultimately, it's up to you to decide what to call it. No need to change the name though, just make sure to note the changes in your readme and possible give it your own internal version number. You might consider an open public beta so you can gather some feedback. VPO's are notorious in the more vanilla oriented srcports like crispy doom and can take several testing passes to find most of them. Ammo balance is another area where it helps to gather multiple feedback. The more eyes the better. I played through the entire wad some time back on UV, pistol starting each map. An amazing wad, congratulations! The main criticism I have that I don't think has been mentioned is that your wad is heavily biassed against pistol starters, in favor of continuous play. If you intend it to be continuous focused, then fine but note that it won't be speed run friendly, most demos are of the uvmax variety. I submit the following for your consideration. I was playing in gzdoom 4.4.2 on UV: map02: On the west side of the map is a sector that rises after you step on it. If you drop off it then you can't get the ammo you need above. map03: Extremely tight on ammo, even after picking up all secrets - may require extensive infighting and/or non berserk fist. map05: Rockets and cells abound but no rocket launcher, plasma rifle or bfg provided. map06: The super shotgun is placed behind cybie and the exit so is most likely of no use to pistol starters. map09: Extremely tight on ammo, even after picking up all secrets - may require extensive infighting and/or non berserk fist. map11: The bfg secret is not available until you reach the exit and find a secret switch to raise the steps up to it - many will likely have killed off the SMM guarding it long beforehand. map12: The super shotgun is behind a yellow door that you can't get to until you have picked up the yellow key locked behind a blue door and is therefore almost useless. map31: SMM is stuck and does not fire. There is not enough ammo to kill all the enemies (possibly due to SMM inactivity). Thirdly, enemies can teleport to the normal exit and you can't kill them unless you go there, missing out on the secret exit (exit areas are mutually exclusive). map32: Extremely tight on ammo until the plasma rifle pickup to the point of having to avoid enemies. map17: extremely tight on ammo, even after picking up all secrets - extensive use of provided berserk/chainsaw and I had to leave high health enemies and return later. There are quite a few one time only secrets throughout the wad. I accept these as part of learning a map, however these can be frustrating for players, especially in their first blind run. Consider introducing some clues (it's possible I missed some clues of course). map04: one time switch to the secret. map12: one secret only accessible for 30 seconds from map start and with no indication or tell. map15: one secret only accessible for 30 seconds from map start and with no indication or tell. map15: one secret requires an archvile jump. map29: 3 teleporters to the exits, one a normal exit, one with ammo and exit, one with a damaging floor exit. Once again, a fantastic wad even as it stands. I look forward to your crispy-friendly release and will test if you do have a public beta. 0 Share this post Link to post
wrkq Posted December 23, 2020 (edited) 11 minutes ago, tmorrow said: VPO's are notorious in the more vanilla oriented srcports like crispy doom and can take several testing passes to find most of them. Okay, I honestly hope you are mistaken, but if it's me who's wrong please let me know so I won't ever spread misinformation again. But as far as I know, Crispy is limit-removing and won't have VPOs. Whoosh was mapping vanilla-ish, no Boom/MBF actions, just got some zdoomisms in due to lack of testing. However, the maps are too complex for vanilla, they'd have to be significantly cut-down, so the target is limit-removing ports (which should include crispy), not vanilla+chocolate. 15 hours ago, TheMightyWhoosh said: When the time comes, should I resubmit the WAD again to /idgames under KINDa.wad, or rename it to something like KINDa1b.wad/KINDaFINAL.wad? As far as I understand the process, unless you want to keep the old version in there, you should upload with the very same name, but include a "Maintainer note: " line in the .txt file saying it's an update to kinda.zip and you're requesting an overwrite. The topmost boxes in the txt generator. Also update the other parts of the txt file to say "limit-removing engine needed", describe it as an updated version released on (date), and so on. 0 Share this post Link to post
tmorrow Posted December 23, 2020 8 minutes ago, wrkq said: Crispy is limit-removing and won't have VPOs I'm sure you are right, I always confuse it with chocolate doom which still has the limits. Thanks for the correction. I don't play either srcport regularly. 0 Share this post Link to post
wrkq Posted December 23, 2020 1 minute ago, tmorrow said: I always confuse it with chocolate doom which still has the limits. Yeah, chocolate is the one. :) (easy to remember - vanilla/chocolate, ice cream flavors). Then whew, everything should be fine for the WAD. :) 1 Share this post Link to post
