Opinions on jumping in doom?

Hey all, so, I was thinking about how in GZdoom you have the option of jumping and crouching, now I usually play with it off unless the readme file with a custom wad says it needs to be on to be beatable but, what do you all think about it?

I'd say it depends. The majority of classic wads weren't made with jumping in mind, so jumping would probably be discouraged if playing them legitimately. Of course, if the intent was to break the maps, then go nuts. Same if the wad is made for those kinds of advanced features.

Don't, unless it's a mapset made for zdoom. Or if you're just fucking around.

I sometimes jump to get to places that have conventional, but remote access. Say, a ledge with stairs that are 10 meters away. I can either walk to the stairs and lose a couple of seconds, or just jump and get there immediately. The same thing with a lift that already started moving - I can wait until it goes down again, or jump on it immediately. I try to make sure that I don't break map progression.

Even if it is cheating - I don't care. I play my games for my own fun, not for some ruleset compliance.

Play however u want.

Sometimes its fun to go play the old IWADs and see just how much u can break the map with jumping

I'll sometimes use it to Bhop over damaging floors, but I'm very careful about not using it to sequence break

37 minutes ago, m8f said:

I sometimes jump to get to places that have conventional, but remote access. Say, a ledge with stairs that are 10 meters away. I can either walk to the stairs and lose a couple of seconds, or just jump and get there immediately. The same thing with a lift that already started moving - I can wait until it goes down again, or jump on it immediately. I try to make sure that I don't break map progression.

 

Even if it is cheating - I don't care. I play my games for my own fun, not for some ruleset compliance.

Boy I'm so lazy I just do noclip2 in the same setting. Nocliping 2 meters instead of 3 is my jam.

If the map author gives the ok, it's fine. But for classic maps, no.

That said, one of the things I hate in Doom (and indeed any game really) is when you are blocked from progression by an obstacle that you could easily pass if your character control was more dexterous or if you could do something basic like jump.

"Wait, I could get that keycard now if I could leap 30cms in the air, ffs..."

Jumping can sequence break but crouching can break projectile combat, I always wondered what the stance was on crouching in anything with jumping intended.

2 hours ago, Pseudonaut said:

It's cheating.

 

 

Dang, I feel like doom should have its own parkour speedrunning category, this was low key dope! But, yeah, jumping is cool, unless you want that sweet hardcore vanilla experience.

Even in wads that require it, I really don't like doing it, it just feels oddly...unclean.

for me ... my opinion on the subject goes

up

and

down

I would say if it is a map, tc, mod, that requires jumping and crouching, then there’s nothing wrong with that, but jumping and crouching can break many vanilla maps, or maps that were designed without jumping/crouching in mind. So I wouldn’t suggest using it to play the original maps or anything made by fans that isn’t made for jumping or crouching. 
 

crouching can also make deathmatch easier in certain instances, especially since the sprites used in most source ports for the crouching marine make it very hard to see in certain angles. Jumping doesn’t really help if someone is using auto-aim against you, in my experience anyways. 

I'd say everyone here can agree that jumping is fair on maps and mods specifically designed with it in mind.

But in the vanilla maps I'd say that it's not too much of an issue if you just use it to jump around for fun in sections where it doesn't affect the map at all (e.g jumping around in a room with no additional areas that can be accessed by doing so), and like m8f said to jump in sections where it's simply faster by a second or two to do so and where you could still easily reach at about the same time without jumping anyway. It's only an issue if you use it to climb on areas that you were only supposed to go to later in the map, allowing you to skip large chunks of it.

But even if it's technically cheating I don't think it matters that much unless you are specifically going for a full or almost full vanilla experience (But if you are I doubt you'd use a port that supports jumping to begin with.) or want to experience the maps the way they were made to (Which I do think you should at least once.) because IMO playing to have fun is more important than playing to follow some rulebook of stuff you should and shouldn't be doing

3 hours ago, GraphicBleeder said:

Hey all, so, I was thinking about how in GZdoom you have the option of jumping and crouching, now I usually play with it off unless the readme file with a custom wad says it needs to be on to be beatable but, what do you all think about it?

Jump around however and wherever you want! Crouch under fireballs and perform 360 jumpshots! If you want to "break" a map then go on ahead and I personally don't like it when a mapset has forcibly disabled those features. I suppose it's a different story though if there's a map that requires GZDoom yet also doesn't want you jumping or crouching.

2 hours ago, Doomkid said:

Has there ever been a half-serious speedrun with jumping, crouching, and floaty zdoom physics enabled? I’d be curious to see just how fast the games could be blazed through that way.

I've done that before for a nice chunk of Doom 2 until my memory of how to exit the map became challenged and/or the novelty of it started to wear off for me.

21 minutes ago, inkoalawetrust said:

But even if it's technically cheating I don't think it matters that much unless you are specifically going for a full or almost full vanilla experience(But if you are I doubt you'd use a port that supports jumping to begin with.) or want to experience the maps the way they were made to (Which I do think you should at least once.) because IMO playing to have fun is more important than playing to follow some rulebook of stuff you should and shouldn't be doing

Mhm, I concur!

3 hours ago, Doomkid said:

Has there ever been a half-serious speedrun with jumping, crouching, and floaty zdoom physics enabled? I’d be curious to see just how fast the games could be blazed through that way.

that could be interesting to see. I've always wanted to see how different zdoom gravity settings affects movement

play however you want to! I personally use it alot unless im testing something vanilla/boom compat or playing DM (E.G. Dwango)

Only if a certain MegaWad requires it. But as for the original IWADS, no it feels weird and really scummy tbh. Playing games a way that they weren't designed for always really bothered me.

Personally, I don't like jumping in the first person perspective. It feels off, somehow. In Doom wads, I will only use jumping if absolutely necessary, though I do not actually find mandatory jumping to be a turn off, since it usually leads to more interesting secrets which can compensate for the jank.

There isn't a difference between jump\crouch and playing with cheats on. Both let you sequence break and dodge projectiles that should hit you. Not to mention all the stupid things you can do by jumping over monsters or crouching on a stair. 

I just leave it on and figure that the author of a vanilla or Boom-compatible mapset will turn it off in the mapinfo (or whatever it is) if they care whether or not I use it.  It's not like I get upset if they do.

I'm not a super hardcore vanilla doom guy, and i don't mind some stuff like vertical aim (although that can break maps that use certain triggers, too...) , but for jumping i don't see the point of it. The game works just fine without it, plenty of other games don't let you jump, and yeah it can break a lot of maps not designed with the feature in mind. I'd like to have the mentality of 'to each their own' but i can't see how it could make the game more fun in any way.

Obviously, advanced maps and mods designed with it in mind are a different story.

I use jumping only when a wad incorporates its use. On the other hand, it makes a lot of those "Strafe Jump" sequences like the Doom II Map03 secret a whole lot easier so yup :)

Jumping? Pffft...

I use the double-jump mod ;)

It's strictly off limits up until the point that I accidentally drop down without getting the chainsaw first. Or miss the platform that opens the room with the rocket launcher. Or land in the water instead of the little room with all the goodies in map 03...but it's absolutely off limits.

I default to no. And I generally avoid WADs that need it anyway. Jumping or crouching simply does not belong in my Doom.

The movement in vanilla is interesting. In my opinion tampering with it renders it uninteresting.

I use jump but only if and when the situation demands it, like getting stuck or if the mapset (or the mapper in most cases) in question allows it or, when testing to see how much the map can be breakable with some tricks like the rocket jump. 

So yea, I don't jump in casual gameplay, even if it's tempting in some ports, except in those cases above.