The Ancient Gods -- review from someone who DIDN'T like it

1 hour ago, TheMagicMushroomMan said:

Anyone can write a bunch of text, I'm doing it right now. 

As someone who knows people in the creative writing industry this is down right insulting.

Yes every one can vomit text like you did. But not everyone is good enough for them to make a living out of it.

Cutscenes = Talent and Effort

Writing = Talent and Effort

Not liking the way story was implemented in Eternal is fine,i get that you like visuals, but to undermine writing as a form of interactive media is plain ignorant. 

I'm sorry but you are just Wrong with this take. Its not even a matter of opinion.

Its not even a matter of what people prefer: cutscenes or text log anymore, its about YOU thinking that Writing is a lesser form of media that takes Little talent and effort which is just wrong. I may not like using cutscenes in video games, but I respect cinematography that goes in to them.

I can say "hur dur i can render 3d models and record audio hur dur"

how does that sound?

Finished it tonight, here are my initial thoughts:

49 minutes ago, jazzmaster9 said:

As someone who knows people in the creative writing industry this is down right insulting.

yeah, calling creative writing lazy is an absolutely horrible take. gonna be real, reading things is a lot more engaging for me than sitting back and watching characters do things i have no control over. writing a story even if it isn't portrayed through cutscenes actually takes time and effort despite how easy it can look to someone from the outside, and it's absolutely disrespectful to the people that worked on this story and really care about this story to say that the way they wished to implement it is lazy. honestly, giving people story through text has been around since the beginning of the doom series. every main doom game from the classics, to 64, to 3, and even into the new story we are given the story through text. i really prefer this new hybrid style they've taken with having part of the story given through cutscenes AND part of the story given through text. 

2 hours ago, scalliano said:

They overdid it.

2 hours ago, scalliano said:

But the deal-breaker for me was the cube fight. I was playing on PC with KBM, but how in the absolute, everloving name of total and utter FUCK is anyone on console supposed to handle that? Someone at id appears to have developed a hardon for blink-and-you-miss vulnerability windows and I for one am getting tired of them.

AGREED.

I actually had pre-ordered Eternal on PS4, but switched that to PC about a week before release. I'm *so* glad I did. I don't know if I would have made it through all of the platforming on PS4, and precision shooting has always been much harder for me with a controller. I typically avoid FPS games on console, but 2016's Doom was a great experience for me on PS4 which is why I had considered getting Eternal for it (I played Doom 2016 on both PS4 and PC).

I think what's especially frustrating to me is that Eternal already has Master Levels, which are there for people who want that slaughter wad experience. id is basically catering to one audience, but telling everyone else to get lost. I'm glad the slaughter experience is there for people who want it, and I even like that type of combat in limited bursts, but they've just taken it to 11 and refuse to ever go back to a 7 or an 8 for even a brief moment. It's not about difficulty for me, it's more about pacing and level design and player freedom.

With that said, I have to say Zero Master really blew me away with this playthrough. Especially the way he switches weapons so quickly and so accurately. As someone who didn't like Ancient Gods, I can at least appreciate that this *is* the cup of tea for some players:

I will say that I'm pleasantly surprised that id decided to UP the difficulty after all the Backlash with the base game's difficulty instead of make it easier. In a time where Mass Appeal and fun for all is the Triple A way, id Did the opposite and just stuck to their guns. I will commend them for that.

18 hours ago, KainXavier said:

I don't know how you can read Doom64hunter's post, and not think the final battle is at least a little bullshit.

Saying it's bullshit makes it sound like it's badly designed, which I just don't think is true.

It makes sense that they decided to up the difficulty for the DLC, It's very unlikely that a more casual player will bother with the DLCs if they are not so into it. seems like they decided this will be aimed for the h1rdc0re g4mer demographic / people who are super invested in the game and want more, or they're just trying to build up on where the base game ended...or both

2 hours ago, jazzmaster9 said:

I will say that I'm pleasantly surprised that id decided to UP the difficulty after all the Backlash with the base game's difficulty instead of make it easier. In a time where Mass Appeal and fun for all is the Triple A way, id Did the opposite and just stuck to their guns. I will commend them for that.

Again, I would just repeat the point I tried to make at the top of this thread: to me, it's not just about "difficulty". There are many things that can make a game "good" or "bad" that have nothing to do with difficulty level. Pacing, character design, level design, writing, music, the game engine, variety in gameplay or enemy encounters, concept, and so many other things.

So from my perspective, my issues with The Ancient Gods aren't really about difficulty. I think that's an oversimplification of what I (some of us) don't like about the DLC. In fact, I would have upped the difficulty in certain circumstances, but also made some encounters shorter, like the boss box battle. Overall, my single biggest ask/want for a future DLC are better designed levels that aren't just a bunch of arenas strung together by tedious platforming and waves of monsters in x2 or x4 combos. I'd love an open ended level with multiple paths and ways to beat it. I also think the Master Levels are a good idea and that's where you can go absolutely insane with endless waves of high tier demons for the people who want that kind of experience.

I kind of look at it as the difference between BioShock and BioShock Infinite. One of those was a GREAT game with open-ended levels and lots of player freedom, the other was a GOOD game that nonetheless devolved into too many arena battles with a lot less player freedom. For me, player freedom and level design are very important, and that doesn't make me any more right or less right than other players with different tastes.

EDIT: My favorite game of 2020 so far is Ori and the Will of the Wisps, and part of what I loved about that game is that it was challenging but it was always offering new experiences and new ways to play. It never once felt tedious to me, even though it absolutely had moments where it could be very tough. The levels were gorgeous and the platforming was incredibly well designed and finely tuned. The story was minimalist but powerful. It's a masterpiece.

On 10/22/2020 at 3:57 PM, Doom64hunter said:

The very last wave of the boss fight of Ancient Gods is the absolute culmination of all the bullshit the DLC has to offer...

I gotta say, I personally loved this DLC, but understand and respect people’s opinions as to why they didn’t, but I laughed and mostly agreed with every part of this post. The last phase of the boss is a little BS. On my second nightmare playthrough, it took me 3 hours to beat that section by itself. I think it took like 4 hours my first time, but I didn’t keep track (I just know the last level took 7 hours and this was most of it).

i am the kind of person to keep replaying it, refining a strategy through trial and error until it becomes a walk in the park. Which is actually one of my favourites things to do in these games. I just hope making a reliable strategy against it is possible, because I think I can do a UN DLC run (with enough prep) without this section, but a UN run is currently deemed impossible to me until I can figure this out.

1 hour ago, Mr. Duk said:

Again, I would just repeat the point I tried to make at the top of this thread: to me, it's not just about "difficulty". 

That comment wasnt directed at you. Just a general observation on the direction Doom Eternal's DLC is going and how Id is going a bout it.

Your criticism is very fair and I dont necessarily disagree with them. Was simply pointing the id teams dedication to what they established in the base game and sticking to it.

I've played all the way up to the last phase (I think) of the final boss on Nightmare. Nightmare is the only skill level I play Eternal on. I've died no less than 50 times through the course of this DLC I'm sure, and probably half of those are in the last hour or two I've spent on this final boss fight. I'm going to try and condense my thoughts thus far, because I'm frankly aggravated as shit right now and don't feel like typing out an essay.

I *like* this DLC. I really do. I *want* to like it more, but I'll be fucking goddamned if the game isn't making that difficult right now.

The bulk of this DLC experience harkens back to classic 90's/00's FPS expansion packs, which were essentially a new set of levels with a few new enemy types, some new assets, and greatly ramped-up difficulty. I really like that about it. Plus, if you aren't dying in your first playthrough of a Doom experience, either the designers did something wrong, or you need to play a higher difficulty. And as @jazzmaster9 pointed out, I think it's respectable that id stuck to their guns and didn't listen to the naysayers who claimed Eternal was too difficult. 

That being said, there's a distinction between a game that challenges you, forces you to strategize in a way you ordinarily don't, and breaks away the childish, whiny part of you in the process---and a game that feels sadistically difficult. And this DLC is starting to veer towards the latter.

I don't mind the doubling down on the Marauders. I don't mind the Buff Totems being spawned at the worst of moments. I don't mind the spirit-buffed demons. I don't mind the great leap in difficulty and new bevy of environmental hazards the game throws your way. 

But these Blood Makyrs? You can take those and shove them straight up your ass. If you want to throw in an enemy that's shielded 90% of the time, fine. If you want to throw in an enemy that basically *requires* you to headshot it, fine. Pick ONE of those. When an enemy has both those attributes, you're basically saying that I *need* to be a quickscope marksman, whether I like it or not. FUCK that bullshit. To me, that's antithetical to how the rest of the enemies in the game are---they can be killed in a variety of ways, with a variety of weapons, depending on your playstyle. This enemy requires absolute precision aiming, with a window of just a few seconds, often whilst other enemies are clawing at your neck. Again, FUCK that bullshit. Getting anywhere close to this enemy isn't an option, which means a distance precision shot is your only available method. This enemy is responsible for at least 1/3 of my deaths in the DLC, including the final boss fight. The final boss fight itself is starting to feel like one of those insane full afternoon swearfests spent beating a ridiculous Nintendo boss, and when you finally do manage a victory, it feels more like random luck than an accumulation of skill. 

These are my thoughts after nearly finishing it. Maybe I'll change my mind about this later, I dunno. I still like this experience overall, but this enemy type is REALLY dragging it down.

59 minutes ago, Caffeine Freak said:

But these Blood Makyrs? You can take those and shove them straight up your... The Emperor feels your hate, gooooood ...and when you finally do manage a victory, it feels more like random luck than an accumulation of skill. 

 

Interesting how much these guys get to you. Granted the constant shielding and requiring to wait for their attack feels cheap, but the fact that a single shot can take them out, then they drop a nice bunch of ammo AND they really aren't as lethal as other demons - more than makes up for it. Hell, in many if not all of their encounters there's cover to avoid their attacks. I reckon the Marauders are much more guilty of your points, with exception they don't require headshots.

I'm not sure what platform you play, but I use PC and those guys act more of a convenient ammo refill than a threat. I like to save my chainsaw fuel when possible. The Spirits are the complete opposite.

3 hours ago, jazzmaster9 said:

That comment wasnt directed at you. Just a general observation on the direction Doom Eternal's DLC is going and how Id is going a bout it.

 

Your criticism is very fair and I dont necessarily disagree with them. Was simply pointing the id teams dedication to what they established in the base game and sticking to it.

Fair enough!

19 minutes ago, Chezza said:

I'm not sure what platform you play, but I use PC and those guys act more of a convenient ammo refill than a threat. I like to save my chainsaw fuel when possible. The Spirits are the complete opposite.

I didn't have much of a problem with the Blood Makyrs, and I also found that BFG tendrils could eliminate them (especially if shot above their heads). That was helpful in the final boss battle. However, I was playing with a keyboard and mouse. I can imagine that on a controller the Blood Makyrs would be absolutely infuriating, especially on higher skill levels.

I'm overall not a big fan of enemies where there is only one way to attack or kill them.

12 hours ago, jazzmaster9 said:

As someone who knows people in the creative writing industry this is down right insulting.

 

Yes every one can vomit text like you did. But not everyone is good enough for them to make a living out of it.

 

Cutscenes = Talent and Effort

Writing = Talent and Effort

 

Not liking the way story was implemented in Eternal is fine,i get that you like visuals, but to undermine writing as a form of interactive media is plain ignorant. 

I'm sorry but you are just Wrong with this take. Its not even a matter of opinion.

 

Its not even a matter of what people prefer: cutscenes or text log anymore, its about YOU thinking that Writing is a lesser form of media that takes Little talent and effort which is just wrong. I may not like using cutscenes in video games, but I respect cinematography that goes in to them.

I can say "hur dur i can render 3d models and record audio hur dur"

 

how does that sound?

As someone who went to university for creative writing, I'm going to go ahead and call bullshit on that. I wss simply saying that technically, anyone with a keyboard can produce a piece of text. Not everyone can make a 3d cutscene. Most people wouldn't even know the software that is used to make cutscenes. You know exactly what I am saying. Way to overreact, bro. Very dramatic.

I wasn't saying that anyone can create GOOD text, I was saying that text is obviously easier to produce on a technical level than a cutscene. But apparently, your all-mighty opinion is fact, so I surrender to you. At this point it seems you are purposely reading too much into things for the sake of being right or starting an argument on a personal level. Not cool.

The fact that I spent two years in university for creative writing is a big part of why I was having this debate with you. I am no better than anyone else, but anytime I see text logs in a game, it speaks to me on a more personal level. I analyze it more than most people probably do. Not because I am more skilled or knowledgeable than anyone else, but because writing is one of my favorite pastimes in life. I usually look forward to reading. That contributed to my decision to join this forum. I've lurked here for ages, and noticed that the community on Doomworld is usually a few steps above other forums in terms of maturity. So I came here, not only to download wads and read news about Doom, but to write. I get to take part in two things I enjoy at once.  

I love text logs in games lile Deus Ex and Bioshock, two exploratory and rather slow games. The text logs in those games serve a technical and plot-related purpose of existence, often containing hints, codes to unlock nearby safes, emails you can use to gather information about people you are encountering, and much more. Doom's text logs do none of that. I never said that writing requires no talent or effort, I said that the text logs in Doom Eternal are lazily implemented, wasting all that talent and effort on a bunch of floating cards that a majority of people won't even stop to read. To me, not that my opinion matters apparently, they feel tacked-on and lazy. As someone who studied creative writing for years, and loves reading and writing as much as Doom, I still don't like it. It is not implemented in a way that I find pleasing. I usually look forward to text logs in games that implement them well. I don't look forward to them in Doom, not because the logs are poorly written, though I feel that aspect could stand to be improved somewhat as well. I mainly don't like them because they are not used well, which sucks the immersion out of the game as well as the tales contained in the logs. That's my opinion. The end. However, unlike your opinion, I don't state mine as a fact, because that would be insulting and a bit immature.

If you know people in the creative writing industry, you know that is just like any other entertainment industry. Making a living off of writing requires more than just being "good enough", it requires luck, connections, money, advertising, and everything else associated with the entertainment industry. Plenty of people who suck get all the good gigs by luck and cash, and plenty of people with great skill never get their turn in the spotlight. So, if you want to have the "that"s insulting!" debate, I think it's insulting that you simplify so much the processes and struggles your friends in the industry have to endure. Normally I wouldn't say something like that, since it was a simple comment you made, but if you insist on reading so much into my simple comments, I think it's fair that I do the same to yours. That's a game for politicians to play, not us.

I never insulted or invalidated your opinion, or stated my opinion as fact. The fact that you did that kind of sucks, because I've always enjoyed your posts and I felt like we were having a civilized debate. But here, I feel as though you are purposely reading too far into things and getting upset about someone's opinion on a video game text log. I hate when people debate about entertainment, only for someone to chime in and say "It's just a game/movie/album/etc." but I think that statement actually hold true here. Just because you disagree with someone doesn't mean you should try to accuse them of insulting someone/something. To purposely look deep into a simple comment and use it to invalidate someone's opinion to claim yours as a fact is a low blow, and to be frank, is pretty hurtful.

Look, I enjoy your posts here, and only now have I realized that I forgot to tag you in my PC parts giveaway thread. I meant to tag and notify people who I like, and you were supposed to be one of them, but I missed you somehow. I still like you, and I still respect you, but your post here comes across as immature to me, and you are usually better than that. But I'll hold true to my heart and link you to the thread out of good faith. I have the CPU left, if you want it, let me know.

What I'm trying to say is that debate is going places it shouldn't be going, and it should end here so we can start over. If it doesn't, we will be left here blowing smoke up our own asses, Eternally.

1 hour ago, TheMagicMushroomMan said:

You know exactly what I am saying. Way to overreact, bro. Very dramatic.

 

I never insulted or invalidated your opinion, or stated my opinion as fact.

I'm sorry but saying things like "Anyone can write a bunch of text, I'm doing it right now" or "it's lazy" sounds condescending No matter how you spin it, I may have been too upset with my post,  I feel I'm completely justified with my reaction.

but anyway, this is going off topic so I guess we just gotta' leave it be.

On 10/22/2020 at 9:14 AM, Mr. Duk said:

fast and so frantic

Many of the detractors on similar terms list this as the key gripe. It's also interesting that you call the new combat system "tedious" because it seemingly locks you into a certain playstyle. Realistically however, the only example of this is having to use the microwave mod for the plasma gun for spirits (if we are talking about absolutes). What I would call tedious is spamming either one of the SSG/GaussSeigeMode/RocketlauncherRomoteDetonate from 2016 because nothing stops you from doing so. Most people take the path of least resistance and for 2016 it's cheesing the unbalanced weaponry. Walking up to a mancubus and unloading the SSG in its face on repeat is what I call tedious. So when people complain that they miss the "freedom" and "creativity" of 2016, I get the feeling that what they really mean is that they miss not being able to complete the game abusing the weapon of their choice. I think that there will obviously be a chasm between a lot of people who played 2016 and Eternal. The distinct difference between the games is that one lets you crouch and the other lets you dash. Those two features are microcosms of their respective games. Yeah it's a bit disingenuous to say crouching is somehow indicative of 2016, but next to TAG, 2016 is a plodding and middling FPS.

5 hours ago, Midas-22 said:

So when people complain that they miss the "freedom" and "creativity" of 2016, I get the feeling that what they really mean is that they miss not being able to complete the game abusing the weapon of their choice.

I've already explained that I used multiple weapons in Doom 2016, and that I still favored the SSG in Eternal. The amount I used each weapon in both games is about the same. It's not just the microwave beam: the Blood Makyrs require headshots when they're de-cloaked, the Marauders have a very specific attack pattern (and once you figure it out, it becomes pretty routine) and require one of 2 weapons to fight them, the Cacos are best handled by shooting an explosive into their mouth, otherwise they're incredibly strong, etc. etc. Even flame belch doesn't seem to kill enemies no matter HOW much you use it, so it is literally there *just* to farm armor and is actually useless as a weapon on its own.

Each enemy has its own combo, basically, and the dance of death is remembering all this stuff and using it on the fly. Eternal was purposefully designed this way. From my POV, to a certain extent this isn't a bad thing, but I think the developers took it too far, especially with the DLC.

5 hours ago, Midas-22 said:

The distinct difference between the games is that one lets you crouch and the other lets you dash.

In this entire thread, that might be the most absurd thing anyone has written. Did you really write that with a straight face? The entire vibe of both games is different. The level design is different. The combat encounters are different.

See... THESE are the types of comments I'd like to avoid. Attacks on people who liked Doom 2016, stating one's personal opinion as a statement of fact, and also clearly responding without reading the thread, as some of your comments have already been addressed. The Ancient Gods DLC is poorly paced in my opinion. It has no ups and downs, no ebbs and flows, it is simply an arena slaughter wad with a big budget.

Saying the only difference between Eternal and Doom 2016 is the crouch/dash feature is basically just trolling.

6 hours ago, Midas-22 said:

next to TAG, 2016 is a plodding and middling FPS. 

That is YOUR opinion. Stating it as a fact does not make it true. Sometimes I really hate the Internet...

41 minutes ago, Mr. Duk said:

Saying the only difference between Eternal and Doom 2016 is the crouch/dash feature is basically just trolling.

Pretty sure he wasn't being completely literal when he said that, hence him immediately clarifying it with: 'Those two features are microcosms of their respective games. Yeah it's a bit disingenuous to say crouching is somehow indicative of 2016...'

11 hours ago, Chezza said:

 

Interesting how much these guys get to you. Granted the constant shielding and requiring to wait for their attack feels cheap, but the fact that a single shot can take them out, then they drop a nice bunch of ammo AND they really aren't as lethal as other demons - more than makes up for it. Hell, in many if not all of their encounters there's cover to avoid their attacks. I reckon the Marauders are much more guilty of your points, with exception they don't require headshots.

 

I'm not sure what platform you play, but I use PC and those guys act more of a convenient ammo refill than a threat. I like to save my chainsaw fuel when possible. The Spirits are the complete opposite.

I play on PC as well. As a standalone enemy, these guys are not much of an issue. I have trouble with them mostly because high precision aiming whilst moving in a firefight has never been my strong suit (definitely something I need to work on.) I can nail enemy weak points, but the Blood Makyr heads are considerably smaller than a Mancubus cannon or Arachnotron turret. Add in their high damage attacks that slow you down (which is death on higher difficulties) and it's a recipe for frustration. 

Probably a lot of my frustration lies in the fact that I've never mastered high precision aiming, and tend to avoid the weapon mods that require it; hence why I tend to prefer Micromissiles over the Precision Bolt, and the Destroyer Blade over the Arbalest. That's admittedly on me, and it's fair to expect to be punished when you've avoided mastering a certain skillset in a game like this. 

14 hours ago, Caffeine Freak said:

I've played all the way up to the last phase (I think) of the final boss on Nightmare. Nightmare is the only skill level I play Eternal on. I've died no less than 50 times through the course of this DLC I'm sure, and probably half of those are in the last hour or two I've spent on this final boss fight. 

 

But these Blood Makyrs? This enemy is responsible for at least 1/3 of my deaths in the DLC, including the final boss fight. The final boss fight itself is starting to feel like one of those insane full afternoon swearfests spent beating a ridiculous Nintendo boss, and when you finally do manage a victory, it feels more like random luck than an accumulation of skill. 

 

These are my thoughts after nearly finishing it. Maybe I'll change my mind about this later, I dunno. I still like this experience overall, but this enemy type is REALLY dragging it down.

Grinding through the last phase of the boss fight reminded me also about the exact Nintendo afternoons of pure frustration. Especially with Megaman X, the last boss in three phases... Just when you thought you'd win there's still one more phase, lol. 

I had such a fun time with the DLC on Nightmare just like you did, and then the last part of the boss came and I "died a thousand times" in it. Since then I've developed a tactic for an Ultra-Nightmare run. I'm already past the first map and about to start Blood Swamps on UN. The difficulty level on Nightmare/UN really hits the sweet spot for me not counting in for the the last boss.

Out of curiosity I did an Extralife Mode run on UV. I didn't die one single time in the DLC on UV. Last phase of boss went also easy, I took some hits that would have killed me instantly on Nightmare and had still over half of my health left despite losing all the armor. The spirit buffed demons were a LOT slower, and did much less damage, too. I think they buffed 'em up a bit too much for Nightmare, feels a bit unbalanced when comparing to the rest of the game.

15 minutes ago, Kristian Nebula said:

Out of curiosity I did an Extralife Mode run on UV. I didn't die one single time in the DLC on UV. Last phase of boss went also easy, I took some hits that would have killed me instantly on Nightmare and had still over half of my health left despite losing all the armor. The spirit buffed demons were a LOT slower, and did much less damage, too. I think they buffed 'em up a bit too much for Nightmare, feels a bit unbalanced when comparing to the rest of the game.

Interestingly, the spirit-buffed demons can be stunned with the Microwave Beam, just like any other demon. This seems counterintuitive to the fact that they can't be faltered, frozen or chainsawed, but it's true. Opens up a whole new avenue of opportunities for dealing with them, since you can drop grenades while the beam is locked on them, Bloodpunch them, or quickswap to another weapon to dish out some heavy damage in the brief second or so before they break from the stun animation. 

Regarding the rest of the DLC generally, I died lots of times, but I really didn't have much of a problem with that. (Although I DID rage for a bit at that stupid eye boss fight.)

12 hours ago, jazzmaster9 said:

I'm sorry but saying things like "Anyone can write a bunch of text, I'm doing it right now" or "it's lazy" sounds condescending No matter how you spin it, I may have been too upset with my post,  I feel I'm completely justified with my reaction.

 

but anyway, this is going off topic so I guess we just gotta' leave it be.

I think the main issue is you probably think this is a major gripe I have with the game, or that I don't like the game, which is probably fair to assume since we've been arguing about this so long. In reality, It's more nitpicking than anything. I like Doom Eternal more than other recent FPS series. The problems I'm talking about knock maybe half a point off the game's score in my head. It's not even big enough of an issue to warrant a huge debate, and that's usually not something I'd say.

And again, I reiterated that I wasn't saying that  the writing itself is the problem, or that it is lazy. All I was saying is that its implementation, and the choice to take the easy path and use text logs, which are technically accomplishable by anyone, feels lazy, and I would prefer something else. It's not something that's going to make or break the game, or prevent me from deciding to buy the next Doom game.

But I definitely apologize if I came across as condescending to you or the developers, as that wasn't my intent, and I understand how that's probably what it seems like. I like 2016 a little more than Eternal, but Eternal is still great. I don't have too many complaints about Eternal's gameplay, other than some basic shit that isn't a huge deal in the grand scheme of things. In fact, the biggest "complaint" I have about Eternal is that it dropped SnapMap instead of improving on it. But I totally understand the reasoning behind cutting SnapMap out, it eats up time and resources too, and it is a tall order getting a good map editor to work good on a console controller. I'd still sacrifice Battlemode to the Ancient Gods if we could get an improved SnapMap on Eternal, though ;P

Do you enjoy Battlemode?

3 hours ago, Caffeine Freak said:

Probably a lot of my frustration lies in the fact that I've never mastered high precision aiming, and tend to avoid the weapon mods that require it; hence why I tend to prefer Micromissiles over the Precision Bolt, and the Destroyer Blade over the Arbalest. That's admittedly on me, and it's fair to expect to be punished when you've avoided mastering a certain skillset in a game like this. 

I hear ya. I would recommend using the slow motion when on air Rune. I relied that heavily when I started Eternal to precision shoot those damn Arachnotron turrets.

10 hours ago, Caffeine Freak said:

 

Interestingly, the spirit-buffed demons can be stunned with the Microwave Beam, just like any other demon. This seems counterintuitive to the fact that they can't be faltered, frozen or chainsawed, but it's true. Opens up a whole new avenue of opportunities for dealing with them, since you can drop grenades while the beam is locked on them, Bloodpunch them, or quickswap to another weapon to dish out some heavy damage in the brief second or so before they break from the stun animation. 

 

Regarding the rest of the DLC generally, I died lots of times, but I really didn't have much of a problem with that. (Although I DID rage for a bit at that stupid eye boss fight.)

I also died in Blood Swamps and Holt on my first playthrough a lot. On subsequent following runs, not that much anymore. However I couldn't complete an extralife run on Nightmare that I tried before the UV run bcs I lost all my lives I had left in the boss fight, lol. 

It's interesting indeed that they can be stunned with it, and the tactics you mentioned are a good way to handle them faster. In the last phase of the boss fight, I first flood the PE with Unmaykr, as it mops up the lost souls spawning around it nicely and when I run out of ammo, switch to rockets and plasma beam. If there is space and enough plasma ammo available at that moment I'll start the beam when it has only little health left so it doesn't drain much of ammo, and is enough to take also the spirit down, otherwise it's possible to easily end up in a situation where the spirit just jumps to a new PE instead.

Dread Knight pretty much sucks a full stack of lock-on rockets, two grenades and a meathook blast to stagger. Then it's ghost busters time with it. A good thing is that you can really keep track where the other demon is at in the room bcs of the blue umbilical energy cord stuck to it from Samur. Makes it a bit easier, not counting in the Bloody Blood Maykrs :D

 

Good writing is often about what not to write instead of just flooding the thing with endless lore. Plus you are not writing a book, you are writing for a video game. The things needs completely different approach and it needs to work with the gameplay instead of against it. DooM 2016 didn't overdo it with story elements, made the game mysterious and let the game speak for itself in language that only a interactive medium like videogame can. And it worked.
In Eternal they upped the story but didn't take any care to make it work within the game, they just made more of it. That IS lazy - and it includes both bad writing and bad presentation. And the bad story & story presentation together with some gameplay decisions like inconsequential jumping sections, low ammo and more arcade elements made the game shattered and flow erratic. There is no longer a single coherent game, but parts of the game - story, fighting, jumping and atmosphere/design - and everybody hates different part. That altogether makes the game inferior to 2016 which was coherent. Hell it makes it inferior to DooM3!

On 10/27/2020 at 10:34 PM, NeoWorm said:

Good writing is often about what not to write instead of just flooding the thing with endless lore. Plus you are not writing a book, you are writing for a video game. The things needs completely different approach and it needs to work with the gameplay instead of against it. DooM 2016 didn't overdo it with story elements, made the game mysterious and let the game speak for itself in language that only a interactive medium like videogame can. And it worked.
In Eternal they upped the story but didn't take any care to make it work within the game, they just made more of it. That IS lazy - and it includes both bad writing and bad presentation. And the bad story & story presentation together with some gameplay decisions like inconsequential jumping sections, low ammo and more arcade elements made the game shattered and flow erratic. There is no longer a single coherent game, but parts of the game - story, fighting, jumping and atmosphere/design - and everybody hates different part. That altogether makes the game inferior to 2016 which was coherent. Hell it makes it inferior to DooM3!

True that, but I didn’t find Doom 3 fun to play regardless. Tbh this whole thread has convinced me to give 2016 another shot, cuz as much as I like DE I can’t just shit on ‘16 like most DE lovers do. I mean it brought me into the series because of it’s amazing tone, writing and atmospherics! I do think Doom 3 is somewhat underrated, but it ain’t the doom for me. Which is why I’ll say Doom 64 and ‘16 is comic book Doom horror done right!

On 10/27/2020 at 10:34 PM, NeoWorm said:

Good writing is often about what not to write instead of just flooding the thing with endless lore. Plus you are not writing a book, you are writing for a video game. The things needs completely different approach and it needs to work with the gameplay instead of against it. DooM 2016 didn't overdo it with story elements, made the game mysterious and let the game speak for itself in language that only a interactive medium like videogame can. And it worked.
In Eternal they upped the story but didn't take any care to make it work within the game, they just made more of it. That IS lazy - and it includes both bad writing and bad presentation. And the bad story & story presentation together with some gameplay decisions like inconsequential jumping sections, low ammo and more arcade elements made the game shattered and flow erratic. There is no longer a single coherent game, but parts of the game - story, fighting, jumping and atmosphere/design - and everybody hates different part. That altogether makes the game inferior to 2016 which was coherent. Hell it makes it inferior to DooM3!

Also about ‘16 being a coherent game, there are parts of it I didn’t like. It’s like everyone forgot that Doomguy doing the dab in ‘16 was a thing :/

@BetaMarineNo one can question Doom 2016! Best Cyberdemon, awesome locked-in sequences listening to Samual, useful pistol throughtout the game and of course the Arenas never felt repetitive.

Doom Eternal is kinda shitty with all the arcade like pickups, overloaded with mechanics etc.

Actually the DLC came out. So actually, Doom Eternal was kind of brilliant, a welcomed upgrade of Doom 2016.

2 minutes ago, Chezza said:

@BetaMarineNo one can question Doom 2016! Best Cyberdemon, awesome locked-in sequences listening to Samual, useful pistol throughtout the game and of course the Arenas never felt repetitive.

 

Doom Eternal is kinda shitty with all the arcade like pickups, overloaded with mechanics etc.

 

Actually the DLC came out. So actually, Doom Eternal was kind of brilliant, a welcomed upgrade of Doom 2016.

 

 

Can’t tell which is irony and which isn’t, but glad to know you enjoyed the DLC!

Haha I was kidding around and making a point that Doom 2016 was quite criticized for a range of things but it's starting to get nothing but praise. Eternal has received its criticism but I think less so since the DLC.

I like them all.