Your favourite chaingun replacements?

Exactly what it says on the tin.

I personally find the chaingun a tad underwhelming when compared with the SSG, Plasma or RL. For this reason, I gravitate towards PWADs that provide a replacement or at least an upgrade. So, without further ado, my personal favourites:

3. The Machinegun from Nihility: Infinite Teeth

With punchy sound effects, clean sprites and a high rate of fire, this weapon is a joy to use.

2. The Super Chaingun from Valiant

Come on, we all know this one. This is to the normal chaingun what the SSG is to the shotgun. Fast-firing, beautiful and most importantly loud. God-tier weapon.

1. The Dual Pistols from Struggle: The Antaresian Legacy

In my opinion the best weapon ever made for Doom, including the SSG. It is impossible to describe the joy of racing through a level, guns akimbo, mowing down every demon in sight with torrents of bullets. This weapon is just sublime.

As a bonus, since the pistol is so anemic and thus also often replaced, my choice for best pistol replacement goes to:

The unnamed pistol-replacement from the Antaresian Reliquary.

This weapon is legit better than the vanilla chaingun, despite its lowly weapon slot. It is satisfying and effective to use.

PS: Yes I know, how very noobish of me to post a 'favourite X' topic, but at least this subject hasn't made the rounds in the last few months!

Edit: removed pointless hyperbole

I actually don't think the vanilla chaingun sucks, I just think that its sprite animations and sound effects do it a disservice. Even just using Smooth Doom with PerkSFX or something similar makes it feel much better.

The vanilla chaingun SFX just sounds really weak, and the limited sprite animation doesn't really make it look like the gun is rapidly spinning. The weapon does decent enough damage, but its audiovisual design is kind of lacking, which can make it unsatisfying to use.

I do agree that the weapons you have chosen are all great though.

3 minutes ago, TheMagicMushroomMan said:

I actually don't think the vanilla chaingun sucks, I just think that its sprite animations and sound effects do it a disservice. Even just using Smooth Doom with PerkSFX or something similar makes it feel much better.

 

The vanilla chaingun SFX just sounds really weak, and the limited sprite animation doesn't really make it look like the gun is rapidly spinning. The weapon does decent enough damage, but its audiovisual design is kind of lacking, which can make it unsatisfying to use.

Very good point. I agree that the Smooth Doom variant is far more satisfying, especially with better SFX. Also, I actually quite like vanilla chaingun in Doom 1 wads, since it seems far less underwhelming when compared with the normal shotgun (which I love, btw) and less tanky opposition.

1 minute ago, Omniarch said:

Very good point. I agree that the Smooth Doom variant is far more satisfying, especially with better SFX. Also, I actually quite like vanilla chaingun in Doom 1 wads, since it seems far less underwhelming when compared with the normal shotgun (which I love, btw) and less tanky opposition.

I think maybe it would have been a good idea for id to maybe replace/improve the pistol/chaingun for Doom 2, or at least make them more satisfying to use against the new enemies. Both guns serve a purpose, even in Doom 2, but they could have probably been buffed up a little bit in some way. You make a good point about that, whenever I replay Ultimate Doom, I don't have a problem with the chaingun. In Doom 2, I end up not using it enough, not because it can't get the job done, but because it just isn't that satisfying.

I also have a bad habit of under using the single barrel shotgun in Doom 2. 

6 minutes ago, TheMagicMushroomMan said:

I also have a bad habit of under using the single barrel shotgun in Doom 2. 

Its a great ammo-saver, imo. Also good against fodder enemies in general. Unless I can line up a good multi-kill with the SSG, the regular old shotty is my weapon of choice against anything squishier than a Hell Knight or Revenant, mostly out of habit since I tend to prefer Ultimate Doom wads.

51 minutes ago, TheMagicMushroomMan said:

I also have a bad habit of under using the single barrel shotgun in Doom 2. 

Fun fact: Shotgun is considered by many players, especially speedrunners, to be an underwhelming weapon due to how inconsistent it is in terms of damage. You should only use it for sniping when shells are no problem to waste.

2 hours ago, Omniarch said:

we all know the vanilla chaingun sucks

Really? You're failing at reading minds. I like vanilla chaingun.

Look at some doom1 E1 nightmare runs. Chaingun does some good work but yea Valiant had a great replacement 

4 hours ago, Omniarch said:

 

 

Let's face it, we all know the vanilla chaingun sucks, or is at the very least underwhelming when compared with the SSG, Plasma or the RL.

 

Who said that?

The chaingun is a good gun. Especially when you're low on RL or Plasma ammo, sure shotgun ammo is plentiful, but the chaingun still has many uses.

7 hours ago, Loud Silence said:

Really? You're failing at reading minds. I like vanilla chaingun.

6 hours ago, David Asaad said:

Look at some doom1 E1 nightmare runs. Chaingun does some good work but yea Valiant had a great replacement 

5 hours ago, GraphicBleeder said:

Who said that?

The chaingun is a good gun. Especially when you're low on RL or Plasma ammo, sure shotgun ammo is plentiful, but the chaingun still has many uses.

Heh, seems my room reading skills leave much to be desired. As I said to TheMagicMushroomMan earlier in the thread, I actually really like the chaingun in Ultimate Doom where the opposition is weaker and most of the better weapons are hidden away in secrets. Being underwhelming is relative after all.

Maybe I should have made a thread about pistol replacements? No one likes the pistol, right? Right!?

24 minutes ago, Omniarch said:

 

 

Heh, seems my room reading skills leave much to be desired. As I said to TheMagicMushroomMan earlier in the thread, I actually really like the chaingun in Ultimate Doom where the opposition is weaker and most of the better weapons are hidden away in secrets. Being underwhelming is relative after all.

 

Maybe I should have made a thread about pistol replacements? No one likes the pistol, right? Right!?

Eh, I’ve played plenty of wads where ammo is really tight, especially early on, and if I’ve just winged a zombie, shot gunner, or imp with the shotgun I’ll switch to the pistol and finish them off with one round. No sense in wasting a shell, or two rounds from the chaingun. 

Yeah, I had to be a contrarian. But yes, the pistol for the most part is worthless, aside from maybe shooting switches. I do like the chaingun for sniping though.

valiant chaingun. accept no substitute. it's something that makes that wad particularly fun to play imo.

vanilla chaingun is ok for mowing down fodder or sniping (its more surprising use), but overall underwhelming in effect, sound and appearance.

I think the pistol needs rebalancing, but not the chaingun. The pistol is balanced for vertical power progression, not for lateral weapon switching. I consider this a basic weakness in Doom's design.

I think of the chain as a defensive weapon. I use it when I'm entering an unseen area or when I may be stuck out in the open.

The chaingun has low DPS, yes, but if there are hitscanners threatening you that aren't all within the arc of a single SSG shot, the chaingun can kill them more quickly.

The chaingun can also stun-lock mid-tiers. By stunning and sweeping, the chaingun can effectively 'supress' a reasonably wide arc. With the SSG, you'll be trading shots and dodging.

Also, I strongly dislike it when mods add some kind of realistic long weapon in place of either the chaingun or pistol, simply because this looks too similar to the shotgun. Distinct silhouettes are one of the pillars of Doom's design. If you want to add an assault rifle of some sort, I'd rather have the shotguns replaced with something unusual.

The main advantage of the regular shotgun, in my opinion, is its lack of vertical spread. I find it much more effective than the SSG for defeating mid-tier enemies on high elevation. Revenant "turrets" in particular.

I do love the Valiant high-speed chaingun, though.

5 minutes ago, Aaron Blain said:

I think the pistol needs rebalancing, but not the chaingun. The pistol is balanced for vertical power progression, not for lateral weapon switching. I consider this a basic weakness in Doom's design.

 

I think of the chain as a defensive weapon. I use it when I'm entering an unseen area or when I may be stuck out in the open.

 

The chaingun has low DPS, yes, but if there are hitscanners threatening you that aren't all within the arc of a single SSG shot, the chaingun can kill them more quickly.

 

The chaingun can also stun-lock mid-tiers. By stunning and sweeping, the chaingun can effectively 'supress' a reasonably wide arc. With the SSG, you'll be trading shots and dodging.

I do not deny the utility of the weapon. I regularly use it in exactly the capacity you describe. As TheMagicMushroomMan said earlier, any issue with the weapon has more to do with weak sound design than anything else.

7 minutes ago, Aaron Blain said:

Also, I strongly dislike it when mods add some kind of realistic long weapon in place of either the chaingun or pistol, simply because this looks too similar to the shotgun. Distinct silhouettes are one of the pillars of Doom's design. If you want to add an assault rifle of some sort, I'd rather have the shotguns replaced with something unusual.

Generally, I agree with this. I personally find that most well-designed machine gun sprites stand apart from the shotty well enough, but a generic assault rifle would just make the arsenal less visually interesting.

10 minutes ago, Aaron Blain said:

The main advantage of the regular shotgun, in my opinion, is its lack of vertical spread. I find it much more effective than the SSG for defeating mid-tier enemies on high elevation. Revenant "turrets" in particular.

Definitely this, especially the last part.

11 minutes ago, Aaron Blain said:

I do love the Valiant high-speed chaingun, though.

Who doesn't? It beautiful.

3 minutes ago, Omniarch said:

 As TheMagicMushroomMan said earlier, any issue with the weapon has more to do with weak sound design than anything else.

I should have mentioned that I don't disagree with any of this.

Valiant's version of it was quite good.

But I find the vanilla chaingun a good weapon anyway.

21 hours ago, TheMagicMushroomMan said:

I also have a bad habit of under using the single barrel shotgun in Doom 2. 

I personally use SG in Doom 2 to kill fodders,to make sure they always die in 1 shot I go near them,aim to their chest to make every projectile hit. The SSG I use against big bois,or to clean a large number of fodders,and when there are only a few of them I just kill the survivors with the SG.

I love those guns in Nihility, is there a general mod that adds those?

The best chaingun replacement I've played with is that WW2 machine gun in Project Brutality 3 that you can only get with cheats.

15 hours ago, Omniarch said:

Maybe I should have made a thread about pistol replacements? No one likes the pistol, right? Right!?

That's a good idea too. There are a handful of under the radar mods for pistol replacements.

Usually I don't care for weapon replacements in Doom but the Antaresian weapons and Doom 64 chaingun are probably my favorite incarnation of that weapon.

8 hours ago, AinuTheTaken said:

That's a good idea too. There are a handful of under the radar mods for pistol replacements.

Any examples? I could do with a nice pistol replacement mod.

On 11/23/2020 at 9:14 AM, Jello said:

Eh, I’ve played plenty of wads where ammo is really tight, especially early on, and if I’ve just winged a zombie, shot gunner, or imp with the shotgun I’ll switch to the pistol and finish them off with one round. No sense in wasting a shell, or two rounds from the chaingun. 

 

Yeah, I had to be a contrarian. But yes, the pistol for the most part is worthless, aside from maybe shooting switches. I do like the chaingun for sniping though.

That is my exact use case for the pistol, as well. In fact, I quite like those beginning moments when pistol starting a map, in which each shotgun shell is worth its weight in gold. Switching between pistol and shotgun, and deciding when to run deeper into the level instead of fighting, has a surprising amount of depth to it. 

9 hours ago, Denim Destroyer said:

Usually I don't care for weapon replacements in Doom but the Antaresian weapons and Doom 64 chaingun are probably my favorite incarnation of that weapon.

Doom64's chaingun indeed looks and feels amazing. I think it helps that the game feels a bit slower overall, it makes those spinning barrels stand out by contrast

EVP (Enhanced Vanilla Project)

I've always been sorta lukewarm towards the Vanilla Chaingun, it does its job and I appreciate its role, but it doesn't feel all that satisfying. I find that just plain reskinning it to look like something else (even if involving the use of DeHacked or Decorate to get the animation just right, without altering behavior) does a lot for it.

I really like it in Doom 64, the faster fire rate and more lively animation makes it very endearing.