When to Pistol Start?

In a megawad (or any wad with episodes for that matter), am I supposed to be doing a pistol start at the beginning of each episode? This is assuming the author has not said anything regarding pistol starts.

Also sorry if I should not be posting an entire topic just for a simple question, I couldn't find the answer myself. If someone could point me down an avenue for asking similar questions in the future, that would be great.

There is no single answer to this question, though, in general, most megawads are balanced for pistol-starting each individual map. This is because balancing resources across a multi-map run is extremely difficult, due to the sheer number of variables involved. That is not to so say continuous playthroughs are 'bad' or 'illegitimate' experiences, and if a wad requires pistol starts it will usually inform the player in its textfile or forum post. But, it is wise to assume that any given megawad is designed principally around pistol-start, with continuous being supported but not finely balanced. That has been my experience, at least.

It is up to you. Map authors will enforce pistol starts with death exits if they are adamant about you playing that way. In the absence of any nudges, play however you want. 

Authors will sometimes point out in txt files that their maps are intended for pistol starts, but that is more of a guideline than anything; you can play even Sunlust continuous if you want (in fact even the really serious players do too). 

Personally, I generally pistol start most things, but when I play continuously and a mapset contains no death exits or separation of any sort, I pistol start: 

a) When I get so much gear and ammo that I'm overpowered and I feel less engaged as a result. It can be fun to go through progression again.

b) When I accidentally overwrite my end-level save. 

Some people prefer carryovers from previous maps, others prefer to pistol start. Starting from scratch is definitely more challenging. It'll make you a better player. Most maps are designed in a way they can be maxed from a pistol start. Look out for secrets, use berserk on imps, demons, spectres (hell knights and barons if you're feeling bold), chainsaw cacodemons, use rockets to maximise splash damage, and you'll be good.

Sometimes a good happy medium is to pistol start whenever you die in a level. It gives you a chance to carry over some resources, but only one chance to get through an entire level with it. Basically, resist the urge to save at the beginning of each level.

Of course it depends on the WAD and if it's just too easy, I'd go ahead and IDCLEV. But you may also enter levels with less than 100 health, so honestly playing continuous can sometimes give you an extra challenge. In sets that are balanced enough for it, I like to have something to lose in the next level, and a little more pressure to actually survive the first five minutes...

My approach is to try each level with a pistol start (and, provided that the author indicates each level is designed for such starts). Often, pistol starts force the player into an "optimal" map-progression, which might be what the author intended. Entering a map in an overpowered state could allow the player to progress at will, allowing him/her to ignore any constraints the author might have imposed.

Only if you play it like Vainilla Doom. You lose and when respawn, only have your pistol, that's make not dying more necesary.

Personally when playing vanilla, i always pistol start. However, if i'm playing with any (zdoom) mods, i usually like to play continuous. A lot of mods put some good effort into their higher tier weapons and it's nice to get to spend some more quality time with them.

Pistol-starting is mostly a recent mapping trope, so feel free to play continuous on older wads since they probably haven't been balanced that way.

24 minutes ago, Tartlman said:

.... (zdoom) mods ....

I forgot to mention: If a mod is set up as a hub it would probably mess up the progression (perhaps make it impossible to complete the mod) if you IDCLEV to each map and use a pistol start.

I usually prefer not pistol starting any maps unless I'm doing challenges. To note is that the two levels that were added in the

Jaguar port to replace E2M8 and E3M1 are not designed for pistol start at all.

Hmmm...are there a WADs which does not use the Pistol Start rule? I just thinked about this now and I don't remember anything like this.

I thought the pistol start rule was for map makers to make sure their map is possible/enjoyable from a pistol start. Both styles of playing a map are fine. Just do whatever you feel would be more fun for the wad your currently playing.

10 minutes ago, Dexiaz said:

Hmmm...are there a WADs which does not use the Pistol Start rule? I just thinked about this now and I don't remember anything like this.

  I would say a good example is valiant, you can beat all the maps from a pistol start but it also designed for continuous play. The new episodes force a pistol start to reset players power, and all the levels end with 2 medkits right at the exit that wouldn't help if you just pistol started the next map. They seem to be put there so you can't end a level with less than 51 hp.

9 minutes ago, donevan427 said:

you can beat all the maps from a pistol start but it also designed for continuous play

This is far away from what I've asked.

Even Doom 1/2/TNT/Plutonia is also designed for continuous play. I've asked for mods which are designed for continuous play ONLY.

BTW, I've remembered. "Cold as Hell" is good example of such mod. Because it's a HUB-styled mod.

4 minutes ago, Dexiaz said:

This is far away from what I've asked.

 

Even Doom 1/2/TNT/Plutonia is also designed for continuous play. I've asked for mods which are designed for continuous play ONLY.

 

BTW, I've remembered. "Cold as Hell" is good example of such mod. Because it's a HUB-styled mod.

AH ok i was reading your previous post like "no wads are designed for continuous". instead of are there any ONLY for continuous. What would be the reason to design for continuous only? The only things I can think of would be bad like getting to a late map without enough ammo, when its assumes you have plenty. or missing a gun and only getting unusable ammo for it in later maps. I think ill try that cold as hell map to see what kind of gameplay it can offer.

It is simple : If it is too easy you probably don't need to save and saving just makes it easier for you. If it is too hard saving or reducing difficulty will help. Depending on how hard you think it should be, so you'll probably never find two people with the exact same answer. Ranges between saving every 5 seconds to never saving in 30 maps and crying when a lost soul kills you in map 30 by blocking your rocket. 

There is no simple answer to that question as it depends primarily on what you seek to get out of the experience.

I personally pistol start when things get too easy, which also tends to be increasingly rare these days, and when I'm too low on resources or health to be worth pushing forward that way, I just make my own life miserable on purpose that way.

BTSX E1 is the wad that turned me into a pistol-start-only player. In my first playthrough I always had a good (plenty of time max) amount of ammo, all weapons, sometimes the blue armor. I felt guilty when I used RL/PR/BFG before the level gave me ones dodging all kinds of threat that the mapper put to make the player get out of the situation. I'm an average doom player and still I can't complain that some wads I've chosen to play are to hard to pistol start. It is better to play on the lower difficulty settings than play continuously. Change my mind on the last statement.

As others have said, either is fine. Personally I'm a continuous player as I like the feeling of progression through the levels as a single experience. 

Arguably pistol starting a map is the more "pure" experience, and will be what most maps are balanced around, but unless the author has explicitly said to always pistol start, or has included death exits to ensure it happens, continuous is also absolutely fine.

Pistol start is usually for reloading each map with just the pistol and starting ammo, and health. If the author wanted you to do that purposely, then they’d force pistol starts where they want pistol starts. So, it’s more about whether or not you want to pistol start once you’ve reached a certain point or not, but there’s nothing wrong with not doing so. 

With pistol starting, you do indeed have to look for all the weapons again, but item conservation takes a hit as you can use all the ammo/health in the map if you want to because it won’t matter on the next level. It becomes more about not wasting items or ammo pickups than trying to gather resources. With carry-over, you have more weapons in your arsenal as you progress, but you have to worry more about item conservation between levels. So I believe a well rounded player will be experienced with both styles. 
 

Also, most deathmatch games are pistol start, so playing this way on certain maps that you may play online, can really help you memorize the weapon locations in a given map. This of course would also help with co-op play, though most of those games have different rules ranging from keep weapons when you die to respawn with only pistol. 
 

On the flip side, continuous play can help you remember which ammo and health pickups are the most advantageous to pick up before progressing further. 

Personally, I feel that pistol-starts are just a holdover from the shareware origins of the original Doom. That is to say, they were a technical limitation of the format and not an intrinsic part of the Doom experience. I feel like that's supported by the fact that, from Doom 2 onward, the officially-released games and WADs were continuous and let you keep and carry over your inventory.

That being said, if someone says that their WAD is designed around pistol-starts, I'd try playing it that way to get the intended experience before playing around with it and doing other things.

I play continuous if I'm attempting some kind of full episode, D2ALL, or ironman run. Or if the wad is just poorly balanced for pistol starts, which is the case for some 90's wads, but otherwise rare in my experience. In the majority of cases, I pistol start everything. Most maps are just better that way.

4 hours ago, dmslr said:

It is better to play on the lower difficulty settings than play continuously. Change my mind on the last statement.

It really depends. UV usually has more enemies. For many, more demons to kill = more fun, even if it means playing continuously

14 hours ago, Dexiaz said:

Hmmm...are there a WADs which does not use the Pistol Start rule? I just thinked about this now and I don't remember anything like this.

This wad. Despite weird progression system that resets levels on exit it's pretty much explicitly designed for continuous playthrough. IIRC there were WADS with "no guns 4u later on haha" type of continuous balancing but can't remember the names at all... I think this fits the description but I don't remember much of it except for the need to start from map02 instead of map01 because it'll delete shotgun from your inventory that you pick up on map02 start otherwise for some reason.

Thanks! Yeah, I like "Crapi" or "Crapirc", this wad is really good, I've played it a lot. And yeah, it lacks the script which "saves" the killed monsters when returning back.

On 12/16/2020 at 1:13 PM, MirrorMage said:

In a megawad (or any wad with episodes for that matter), am I supposed to be doing a pistol start at the beginning of each episode? This is assuming the author has not said anything regarding pistol starts.

 

Also sorry if I should not be posting an entire topic just for a simple question, I couldn't find the answer myself. If someone could point me down an avenue for asking similar questions in the future, that would be great.

Beyond the fact that most mappers actually design their maps to be pistol-start valid, it's also a question of personal preference. E.g., I always pistol start every map, almost regardless of the WADs intention, because that's how I like to play DOOM.

On 12/17/2020 at 2:00 PM, Cinnamon Killjoy said:

I always pistol start every map, almost regardless of the WADs intention, because that's how I like to play DOOM.

they can pry the weapons and ammos i earned from my cold dead hands :D

Man i always pistol start anytime I can't pickup a ammo.

I got cereal OCD so there is no thing more annoying to me than all those shotgun shells laying around I can't carry.

On 12/20/2020 at 2:36 PM, nayoz said:

they can pry the weapons and ammos i earned from my cold dead hands :D

Haha. x) You do whatever the hell you want mate, I will never claim anyone's version of fun is wrong. :)

At first I pistol started everything because I wanted to get better at Doom. I still suck, but I like having to progress and acquire all my gear and weapons again. So I just do it for fun now :]