Post Your Opinions About Doom (Whether Controversial or Not)

12 minutes ago, ChopBlock223 said:

What do you guys want out of a Dead Simple remix/derivative, if you have to have one in a mapset?

I suppose it should be something else than just a square arena that needed two mappers to be designed :P

Try this!

7 hours ago, ChopBlock223 said:

Hall/Romero

There's only one of those (E1M4), and it's not really considered by many to be the best of E1

On 12/26/2020 at 2:12 PM, InDOOMnesia said:

I fail to see how this is controversial. Matter of fact, most who avidly play DOOM nowadays use minimalist HUDs offered by modern source ports.

Now here's my hot take; I prefer the classic 90's FPS games HUDs that tell me how much health, armor, ammo, what keys, items, etc. I have, rather than minimalist modern HUDs. Bonus point if it has a face display.

I actually like using internal helmet HUDs... something about them that makes it even more claustrophobic and immersive...

* I much prefer Doom 2's levels to most of Doom's - but E4 is pretty damn good too

* TNT is better than Plutonia

* TNT's music is great and I think I prefer it over the classic iwads

* Doom is probably the game I've played the most but the limited number of enemies and lack of SSG makes the gameplay drag a bit compared to what came after it

* I love all of Romero's maps

* I don't like big maps. The Living End is pushing it. An ideal map for me is 10-15 minutes of playing time.

IDK if this is controversial, but MAP31 is the best deathmatch map. Just its size and amount of secrets is perfect for DM.

Standard shotgun is better than the Super shotgun.

Fight me.

@Doom-X-Machina I'll fight. The SSG does more damage per second and is more shell-efficient than the regular Shotgun. Also, the Chaingun is better than the OG Shotgun at any range. Even playing E1 of Ultimate Doom, where the regular Shotgun sucks the least, there is no reason to use the Shotgun instead of the Chaingun unless you run out of bullets.

Doom 1 is a game that ages worse with time.

2 hours ago, Doom-X-Machina said:

Standard shotgun is better than the Super shotgun.

Fight me.

What Spectre01 said.

I'll also fight - the only time I see regular shotgun as better than the SSG and Chaingun (for long distance sniping) is when the Chaingun's auto-aim is not cooperating for sniping vertical targets. Occasionally the regular shotgun will hit the targets that the Chaingun cannot. 

I'll follow my fight with a question: Why, in your opinion, is standard shotgun better than Super Shotgun?

And my controversial opinion: E4M2 is pretty fun.

2 hours ago, Rytrik said:

I'll follow my fight with a question: Why, in your opinion, is standard shotgun better than Super Shotgun?

 

1. Sounds better

2. Looks better

3. More accurate for medium-long range
4. Faster recoil/fire rate

If I'm in close quarters with a Baron or something similar and all I have is shells and the shotguns, I'll take the super-shotgun but in general combat in open areas against mixed enemies I find the standard shotgun to be much more effective.

2 hours ago, Rytrik said:

And my controversial opinion: E4M2 is pretty fun.

100% love that map. The second you land you're being pelted. I like that shit.

35 minutes ago, Doom-X-Machina said:

 

1. Sounds better

Truly the most controversial statement in the entire thread

44 minutes ago, paturn said:

Truly the most controversial statement in the entire thread

Unapologetically bucking trends since 1985 ;)

Sandy Peterson is a fantastic game/level designer, I would argue he's the best of the iD level designers.

For something more controversial, I used to think the Spider Mastermind was a better enemy/boss than the Cyberdemon. I'm not sure I still feel that way, but I did appreciate how Doom 2016 made the spider the final boss.

On 12/27/2020 at 9:43 AM, Cinnamon Killjoy said:

Is regarding DOOM 2's MAP10 - Refueling Base as the best map in the megawad controversial? Because I love the shit out of that one.

YES! I love so much about this map - the midi, the secrets, the barracks room, the teleporting Baron on easier difficulties...

Funny enough, for many years I thought this level had the earliest BFG in the game.

4 hours ago, The Great Communicator said:

Sandy Peterson is a fantastic game/level designer, I would argue he's the best of the iD level designers.

 

For something more controversial, I used to think the Spider Mastermind was a better enemy/boss than the Cyberdemon. I'm not sure I still feel that way, but I did appreciate how Doom 2016 made the spider the final boss.

 

 

YES! I love so much about this map - the midi, the secrets, the barracks room, the teleporting Baron on easier difficulties...

Funny enough, for many years I thought this level had the earliest BFG in the game.

Don't know if I agree that Petersen is the best, but he gets a bit too much shit, and DOOM 2 is basically his vision, so to speak.

And yeah MAP10 is great. I love non-linear levels like that.

On 12/24/2020 at 8:19 PM, Gustavo6046 said:

american mcgee did nothing wrong

 He is probably the best level designer on Doom 2

(except c*tacombs)

The exit in Catacombs looked pretty trippy, in a cool way, if you ask me.

@Doom-X-Machina

didn't know it was possible to have an objectively wrong opinion but by god you've done it 😛

13 minutes ago, DOEL said:

@Doom-X-Machina

 

didn't know it was possible to have an objectively wrong opinion but by god you've done it 😛

I like to leave an impression 😉

On 12/30/2020 at 7:45 AM, Rytrik said:

And my controversial opinion: E4M2 is pretty fun.

It's the best map in Ultimate Doom

The BFG is the most skill-indexed weapon in the game.

Slaughtermaps, when executed well require the most gamsense/skill than any other "vanilla/limit-removing/regular" format/theme/combat scenario (and this is coming from someone who isn't that good at them, and in many cases don't like them).

1: Pain Elementals don't usually cheese me off as much as they do other people. They definitely suck and need to be killed quickly, but I'd rather deal with them instead of a multi-Revenant plus Arch-Vile assault.

2: I agree with the Dean of Doom in that The Chasm is one of the better maps in Doom II. Maybe not the BEST as he claims, but it's a more memorable map than most in the game and has an interesting and tense structure. The no-escape pit near the end though is pretty dickish, I'll at least grant that.

3: Even setting aside the Tome of Power, I like Heretic's arsenal more than Doom's. No weapon becomes completely obsolete since they all have their own ammo type, and even the Staff isn't completely overshadowed by the Gauntlets when it comes to Sabreclaws. I'll grant the Firemace kind of sucks, but I think nearly every other weapon is cooler than its Doom equivalent.

I don't like the OTex texture set.

I can tell that a lot of work went into it and it obviously does look good... but it always felt like it was a tonal mismatch compared to the base game, like it's all a bit darker and grittier. I just feel it clashed with Doom's more cartoonish sprites.

I tend to prefer texture sets that feel... a bit shit (which is kind of a mean way of putting it but you get what I mean) in the same way classic Doom's textures look compared to something more modern and polished.

@HQDefault I'd say the word you may be looking for is Arcade-like instead of "a bit shit"?

I actually get what you mean though.  The OTEX Texture set is probably the most brilliant texture set to ever grace this game, but it's kinda off in a way I can't describe.  I'd say the textures used in Sunlust (obviously these come from other sources) is a great example of what really fits DOOM without deviating too far from that Arcade-like Grit Pixel Aura/Visual.

Titan Manor is a bad, confusing mess of a map.

On 12/28/2020 at 9:44 PM, EvilNed said:

* I much prefer Doom 2's levels to most of Doom's - but E4 is pretty damn good too

* TNT is better than Plutonia

* TNT's music is great and I think I prefer it over the classic iwads

* Doom is probably the game I've played the most but the limited number of enemies and lack of SSG makes the gameplay drag a bit compared to what came after it

* I love all of Romero's maps

* I don't like big maps. The Living End is pushing it. An ideal map for me is 10-15 minutes of playing time.

I don't see anything controversial on those points.

*Doom 2 is fugly as hell, and yes Ep 4 follow that trend but with a more semirealistic touch in some areas.

*TNT is better than Plutonia, to some, like me ;)

*TNT music is the best of any iwad.

*Ultimate Doom is the one i played the most, too. And yes, after a lot of Doom 2 played, UD seems a bit slower and tends to drag on some maps.

*I'm starting to love Sandy's maps, beside Romero's.

*Big maps are honey for some, but map29: The Living End, is nowhere big compared to TNT map20: Central Processing or map27: Mount Pain.

Perfect maps by the way.

Something controversial is like the following:

-Fragport is the best mapset ever made, hands down, combining the best storytelling details, best map designs, awesome gameplay, and the best usage of stock textures on any PWAD ever.

Secret exits are useless and boring to find. If I can't find them , I will idclev to map 31 and map 32 anyways.

On 12/28/2020 at 2:32 AM, ChopBlock223 said:

What do you guys want out of a Dead Simple remix/derivative, if you have to have one in a mapset?

I'd rather people just used the 666/667 tags for something interesting instead.

26 minutes ago, BoxY said:

I'd rather people just used the 666/667 tags for something interesting instead.

The issue is that the map07 special is so incredibly specific that it's really hard to use for anything interesting. Mancubian Candidate is probably the most creative thing you're going to get out of it. So honestly the most refreshing map07 to me in a regular megawad is one that doesn't use these tags at all.

Imo the traditional Dead Simple clone is stale because it preserves the abstract nature of the original: "kill all of the mancubi, then walls lower" followed by "kill all of the arachnotrons, then a floor raises" -- or something close enough to those. 

Obviously, even the most creative Dead Simple maps will often reduce to that under the hood, but the key is that your actual in-game experience, described in the narrative terms you understand, can be more sophisticated than just "kill a bunch of stuff and then a sector moves."  

Maybe when you kill all the mancubi, extra rocket caches become available for use in the flow of the action (which has plenty of other monster species because it's an actual map rather than a simple arena) <-- I like to imagine the Dead Simple-ish Speed of Doom map08 doing that if it were in the map07 slot. Maybe when you kill all the arachnotrons, the level "ends" with a scripted Boom sequence depicting floors crumbling into lava, architecture collapsing, simulated explosions via teleported barrels, the works. Maybe you have a wanted sign early in a map with a mancubus picture and it teleports elusively away from you every time you track it down in various buildings, and when you finally "catch it" you win your reward. Maybe when you kill all the arachnotrons, a pair of parental masterminds show up in a very harsh spot for you, to exact their revenge.  

I'm just making those up on the spot, but the point is the technical functioning of tag 666/667 doesn't have to be the focus. There is a lot of mileage to be had focusing on the framing of the objective and the events that happen. (And yes, also making it a map rather than an simple arena.) That is the approach taken by Mancubian Candidate, as well as Total Exposure from Sunlust. 

On 1/11/2021 at 6:08 PM, Roofi said:

Secret exits are useless and boring to find. If I can't find them , I will idclev to map 31 and map 32 anyways.

 

 

Hell To Pay did a great job saying fuck you to secret exit and making maps 31 and 32 mandatory. Too bad it didn't start a trend.