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Retro Dino

What demon annoys you the most?

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Revenants are dangerous but barons aren't completely helpless in comparison as much as people like to shit talk them. They (and cacos) have better projectile attack frames for longer term damage than a revenant (from fastest to slowest, caco at 15, Baron at 24 and Revenant at 30 -shoots at 20, better burst on first projectile-), although a revenant is more likely to use projectile attacks due to shorter chase animation frames. Baron's projectile is also faster by 50% so the baron straight up has a better projectile attack than non-tracer projectiles. Not to mention the baron's attack is harder to counter with close range weapons as the baron won't try to melee you like a revenant.

 

Now if you are brave enough to mix in -fast mode.. Baron's now have an even faster projectile and nonstop spam their attacks, and chance is you'll get distracted by something else while they barrage you, they are also too tanky to prioritize over something like imp swarms, lost souls or chaingunners.. enjoy!

Now if we are going to be comparing them with mancubi, bye bye Baron you suck! 

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Arch-Vile. Whenever I hear that sound, I instantly run out. Pain Elementals aren't that bad, as long as you have a plasma rifle or chaingun. Revenant's missiles are usually easy to dodge.

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Spectres are pretty annoying in some maps but I find Barons the most frustrating. They're bullet sponges that just don't seem to die when you want them to.

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Revenants, Crazy Imp slaughter ambushes. I actually like Archviles and Pain Elementals.

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For me it has to be Barons. if you're gonna put a baron, put a hell Knight instead.

 

On 1/16/2021 at 7:22 AM, Dunn & Dunn said:

Well, you're not. :) Anybody who likes Plutonia and thinks it is superior to TNT would probably say otherwise if they were to play just the first 10 maps in one go. None of the maps have stuck in my head aside from ones like Hunted,

Well i actually played the first 11 maps of plutonia in one go and despite being stuck in Hunted, I still love it more than the entirety of TNT,

so there's that theory out the window.

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TNT seems to be really amateurish most of the time... room size seems always a bit off, some map drag just beacuse corridors are too long, the best part of wormhole is a secret... which is really dumb.

Plutonia is not that ugly... especially if you play it with chocolate doom where everything is more balanced ratio wise, and the level design is so much more professional... there is always some maps (well of souls that is made for calm pugilists) that are somewhat dissapointing for some, but thats common to every megawad.

TNT is boring and mostly unchallenging.
Plutonia lead the foundations for what is now the true doom experience combat wise.

I hated Evilution after map 10, all played in one sitting =)
Now I just see it like somenone first wad... the one they'll get feedback on to make something better next time.

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2 hours ago, pcorf said:

Revenants, Crazy Imp slaughter ambushes. I actually like Archviles and Pain Elementals.

You're insane lol

 

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Well for me, it is clearly my aunt Anne and my old math teacher.
No wee Doom monster can annoy me. Kill&Continue. No annoyance done.

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Revenants times a billion. Hate hate hate hate hate. Nine times out of ten, it will be "[Player] couldn't evade a Revenant's fireball" that reads as my death message. I don't know if I just have bad luck with them or what, but they don't like me and I don't like them.

 

The runner-up is, if this answer is viable, the Cyberdemon, because unless used sparingly, Cybie-overload becomes tedious and doubly annoying for their nigh-instant death factor.

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imo there are no fundamentally bad enemies, only bad enemy placement, but if I had to pick the ones that are easiest to abuse it would be barons and lost souls.

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Lost Souls in crowds can be very annoying, I make sure to deal with Pain Elementals first whenever I come across one.

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Those goddammned lost souls.  Especially pistol starting Slough of Despair they kept soaking up so many bullets.

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I fucking hate the Lost Souls and ESPECIALLY the fucking flying cyclops meatballs that shit them out constantly.
I've got a section in one of my maps that is a 3-way tunnel/road with several cacodemons and Pain Elementals, and it was pretty much fucking impossible to get through alive with the arsernal I had up to that point because the Lost Souls kept getting right in front of my rocket launcher and killing me, and of course it doesn't help that they must be made of fucking titanium instead of bone judging by how stupidly durable they are. I ended up just removing all of the Pain In The Ass Elementals except for one, which is on the road you have to go through to progress which also has the tank wreckage.

 

Spoiler

iYpZLOz.png?1

 

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I find a lot of higher tier monsters to be a pain in the ass, revenants, archviles, pain elementals, sometimes even mancubi or arachnotrons, but that is what makes them work so amazingly in Doom's combat and I wouldn't see that as a flaw. Basically, I hate em but I love em.

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18 hours ago, inkoalawetrust said:

I fucking hate the Lost Souls and ESPECIALLY the fucking flying cyclops meatballs that shit them out constantly.
I've got a section in one of my maps that is a 3-way tunnel/road with several cacodemons and Pain Elementals, and it was pretty much fucking impossible to get through alive with the arsernal I had up to that point because the Lost Souls kept getting right in front of my rocket launcher and killing me, and of course it doesn't help that they must be made of fucking titanium instead of bone judging by how stupidly durable they are. I ended up just removing all of the Pain In The Ass Elementals except for one, which is on the road you have to go through to progress which also has the tank wreckage.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

iYpZLOz.png?1

 

Don't beat yourself up.

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PE: can always create a lot of LS charging towards you. 

LS: suddenly hits you in the face while you are happily firing rockets.

Pinky on nightmare difficulty: IMO the most annoying monster while doing NM Speed.

 

 

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Thats a tough one. Most of em are really fucking annoying, I guess the baron of hell cause Im more used to hell knights, but barons always take 6 ssg shots which is annoying.

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The most annoying for me are the Revenants, Archviles, and Chaingunners. Though now that I'm playing Eviternity, I think its custom monsters are much more annoying.

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i was gonna say revenants, but now that i think about it i gotta go with barons. as much as i hate having to deal with revenants, at the very least they play an important role in the bestiary. barons...kinda don't? you could use two hell knights in their place and it'd be a better challenge as well as more fun to fight. barons are really only useful in very specific areas, and even then they're still not fun to fight

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That’s actually a question I’ve asked myself a lot lately, and, well, I assume without looking that whole threads have been dedicated to it before, but like when is it preferable to use a Baron over a Knight?

 

The Baron, as I noted in some thread somewhere, is often used by novice mappers as a way to make the map longer, which by itself is contrived and unnecessary. Most mappers figure out there’s a difference between a long map vs a slow one, and that grinding out 50 Barons with the chaingun is not interesting or fun in any circumstances.

 

I feel like the Baron can be useful where the author offers infighting as a combat option against the big bosses; even a small number of Barons can severely wound a cyberdemon or spiderdemon if they gang up on it, which is usually easy to trigger and will keep the big boi busy while their attention is diverted between the Barons annoying them. This is a fairly unique property of the Baron, at least for a small number of them, since their sole unique characteristic is their sheer tankiness and a cybie can’t take them down in a single volley the way it can most other opponents.

 

 Other than that I’d only ever use them one or two at a time, probably to block a passageway or doorway while a group of more interesting monsters ambushes from behind or something. Beyond that Barons are slow to fight and are easy enough to avoid that there’s not much cost to just ignoring them in a lot of cases.

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Toss-up between Archviles and Pain Elementals, they are always priority targets because they can fuck you up otherwise. Closets full of Revenants come a close third.

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4 hours ago, NoXion said:

Toss-up between Archviles and Pain Elementals, they are always priority targets because they can fuck you up otherwise. Closets full of Revenants come a close third.

For some reason, I adore revenant closets. Guess, I'm kinda fucked up in the head. Oh well.

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The simple problem with revenants is that they're by far the most unpredictable monster. Homing and dumb missiles have completely different dodging tactics, and you pretty much have to guess which one it will launch. They're too fast to hit consistently from afar, their projectiles deal too much damage to take them on near, and even up close when they would rather punch you, their high pain chance forces them to missile anyway. Any change to the skeletons and they would be significantly easier to deal with.

 

Pain elementals are probably hated for the same reason, lost souls are bipolar little demons, and you would almost swear that they were programmed to only charge when you weren't looking. I do sort of like them.

 

Archvile has the most ridiculously overpowered attack in the game, not even revenant's D&D roll missile is as bad, but at least the healer is consistent. Unfortunately, there's no real tactic to fighting them, which means that every archvile fight relies entirely on the map geometry for any kind of challenge. It's hated since you have no hand in affecting an archvile fight, you can only stay in cover, which of course completely negates any number of 'viles, so the only thing that changes is the amount of shooting required to kill them all. Can't be rated, as it's just like Icon of sin, map is the real enemy.

 

Cyberdemons are predictable, but messing up means near certain death. The pain state's three consecutive shots is the main thing that will catch people off guard.  Fine when not overused. 

 

Spectres are either the biggest joke, or the most cunning demon in the game, based entirely on what blur option you use. Good fear to threat ratio, a classic Doom foe.

 

Baron, he's simple, but he has big guts, and a bigger health bar! If you claim that two knights are better than a baron, then by the same logic, a dozen imps is better than two knights, hey if nothing else, the imps will deliver better suppressive fire. Baron is a fine, meaty foe in the roster. Players would rather avoid than fighting them in most situations, making them a guaranteed mainstay in any battlefield they appear in. These guys punish your own laziness, though they're also good at tight quarters, as seen in the first two maps of Episode 4. 

 

 

 

 

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On 2/12/2021 at 1:19 AM, StupidBunny said:

That’s actually a question I’ve asked myself a lot lately, and, well, I assume without looking that whole threads have been dedicated to it before, but like when is it preferable to use a Baron over a Knight?

 

The Baron, as I noted in some thread somewhere, is often used by novice mappers as a way to make the map longer, which by itself is contrived and unnecessary. Most mappers figure out there’s a difference between a long map vs a slow one, and that grinding out 50 Barons with the chaingun is not interesting or fun in any circumstances.

 

I feel like the Baron can be useful where the author offers infighting as a combat option against the big bosses; even a small number of Barons can severely wound a cyberdemon or spiderdemon if they gang up on it, which is usually easy to trigger and will keep the big boi busy while their attention is diverted between the Barons annoying them. This is a fairly unique property of the Baron, at least for a small number of them, since their sole unique characteristic is their sheer tankiness and a cybie can’t take them down in a single volley the way it can most other opponents.

 

 Other than that I’d only ever use them one or two at a time, probably to block a passageway or doorway while a group of more interesting monsters ambushes from behind or something. Beyond that Barons are slow to fight and are easy enough to avoid that there’s not much cost to just ignoring them in a lot of cases.

Good insight. I want to add something that the "why use a baron when you can use two knights" crew seem to overlook, which is that you can kill two knights with three rockets if you play your cards right. Good luck killing a baron with three rockets...

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Revenants. It's either instant death or a light slap to the wrist. Immediately pull out my strongest weapon and blast them down when I hear the annoying fuckers.

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