Why do people get so offended by player's who decide to use freelook?

Because purism.

I'm a bit of a purist, and I really don't like to play DOOM with freelook, but I'm not about to tell other people that they're wrong for liking freelook.  You're only playing the game "wrong" if you're playing it in a way that isn't fun to you, whatever anyone may try to tell you.

Purists, amirite?

I don't get offended by this unless somebody said to me "why don't you use freelook".

Personally I don't care how about other play their game, but when they told me I should do something, especially in this type of questioning way, it's annoying.

1 minute ago, Orcsbreath said:

I'm a bit of a purist, and I really don't like to play DOOM with freelook, but I'm not about to tell other people that they're wrong for liking freelook.  You're only playing the game "wrong" if you're playing it in a way that isn't fun to you, whatever anyone may try to tell you.

I've been playing Doom for only half a year, and I've been a bit of a purist, too. The only time I turn on freelook is when I want to admire the environment or get screenshots. I would be using PrBoom if there was an option for infinitely-tall actors, because I simply don't want to be constantly annoyed by something like that for the sake of "vanilla". 

I'll occasionally load up a ZDoom mod and have a little fun with it, but for the most part, I go with GZDoom with no dynamic lights, no freelook, and compatibility setting Doom (strict) with the lost soul limit and infinitely tall actors both turned off. It's the main reason I prefer GZDoom, you are able to customize the game to whatever makes you comfortable playing, and is also the most stable and recordable source port I can find. I also don't have to deal with bugs and stuff that can hinder me and I have absolutely no control over.

We play Doom to have fun and shoot pixels on a screen, for god's sake.

I really don't care if somebody has freelook on - in fact, I've probably had more playtesters have it on than off. Until I make a map that is STRICTLY balanced without freelook and not just being Boom-compatible, it shouldn't be that big of a deal.

8 minutes ago, seed said:

No-one gets offended by this.

 

It only becomes problematic when it comes to players insisting on using freelook when playing wads which were purposefully designed against it, as it enables the player to reach switches, platforms, or monsters/closets they are normally not supposed to reach at all, or they are, but at a later time, or via different means - then complain that something broke or whatever.

 

It's the same old story just like jumping, it ruins what the authors intended, making a mockery of their work. Think of jumping on Dead Simple as a very basic example, why kill all monsters, as it was meant to be, when you can just jump to the switch...

I understand why people who make Vanilla/Boom/MBF maps with GZDoom compatibility have the special lumps that disable jumping, but sometimes - I like to goof off! I like to jump on maps where I'm not allowed to, I like to sequence break and see what happens, I want to surf on the monster heads, etc. Sure - I won't do that if I'm playing seriously, but sometimes - I just want to go MAXIMUM GOOFY! I get it - better disable it for GZDoom so inexperienced players don't break the map and report "mistakes" that don't even exist, than to leave it on for the 2% of people who are just fooling around. But I still sigh in disappointment when the map author prevents me from jumping around.

Oh well, I can always just enable "fly" and summon 50 friendly Archviles for my goof-off sessions!

I get little annoyed when i see someone using freelook in Doom and i call it cheating, but that's not my business.

4 minutes ago, Loud Silence said:

I get little annoyed when i see someone using freelook in Doom and i call it cheating, but that's not my business.

Well I certainly don't set out to cheat or feel like I'm cheating, it just feels like a more natural way of playing to me :) If I do get an advantage I try to offset that by turning off auto aim, I never liked when you shot strait that it would veer left or pick your height for you - I like to pick my own shots:)

Hey Clippy!

Don't feel bad.

Probably its just a minority, but unfortunatelly, you stumbled with that minority of people that think they are the right and everyone else is the wrong :/ 

What catch me as a surprise is that, from what i see, you mostly made maps for zdoom base ports, and really most players play GZDoom with free look, so its strange that you found people playing GZDoom and saying to you that its bad to use freelook. :S

ITs totally weird!

GZDoom player base is focused around all the features it has that allow for modern things that other more conservative ports doesn't.

I never saw any walkthorught map per map made on GZDoom that didn't use free look.

So yeah, you had bad luck, pal!

You stumble with all the retards that like to lord over stupid things and try to force other people to do their liking.

Same reason they get offended by people who play on difficulties other than UV, people who use texture filtering, crosshairs, etc.

It's petty as hell. I've never once seen freelook actually break a map, tbh. I play a lot of vanilla WADs with it on and while I can maybe see certain things and angles that are maybe less than traditional, it's not like jumping where you can actually sequence break the map. never once has being able to look at a ceiling changed the way I've played a map. I'm not sure where people are getting that freelook somehow magically makes you able to reach a platform, that's a line-trigger action generally speaking, unless it's attached to a switch, which may be reachable by accident if using freelook and it's a shoot switch. 
tl;dr purists

I used to use Doomsday primarily, which by default had full freelook (180 degrees up and down) and no auto-aim, but lately I've been moving away from it, instead using Crispy Doom and PrBoom+ with horizontal mouse movement only.

Both play styles are valid IMO. Gameplay purism is bad. The freelook in Doomsday, GZDoom, etc almost never allows for sequence breaking in practice. Though freelook might give better visibility, disabling auto-aim also makes it harder to target monsters above or below the player, so it's not necessarily easier.

I just find more enjoyment in playing without freelook and with auto-aim, especially since a lot of Doom levels seem to be designed for that setup primarily.

37 minutes ago, seed said:

...It only becomes problematic when it comes to players insisting on using freelook when playing wads which were purposefully designed against it, as it enables the player to reach switches, platforms, or monsters/closets they are normally not supposed to reach at all, or they are, but at a later time, or via different means - then complain that something broke or whatever. ...

I echo this sentiment.  Freelook is totally cool as long as you don't use it to skip/break a level that wasn't designed around freelook.  And, even if that happens, oh well, I'll get over it in like 10 seconds.

It's probably a bit of self projecting of me to say this, but I play with freelook on, only to avoid getting motion sick, and attempt to play as close to classic as possible, using auto-aim, and trying to keep my field of view as level as possible.  For some reason, I can't play or look at Doom for too long without getting sick, if vertical freelook is off, and weapon bob is on.

I mean, there's a million and one ways to play Doom, just have fun with it.

I personally don't use freelook because it looks awful with software rendering, and I don't really like OpenGL rendering, but I couldn't care less what other random Doomers do.

The only time people using freelook annoys me is when I'm designing shootable switches in my maps.  I don't play with freelook (just my preference) but I test my maps at least once with it on.  Sometimes I'll have what I think would be nice placement for a shootable switch, only to realize that freelook allows it to be accessed too early or from the "wrong" position.  It's a lot harder to embed shootable switches to hide them from multiple angles.  That said, I keep my annoyance to myself, since it's honestly nice to have anyone play my maps at all.

I could just say "Don't use freelook to shoot switches," but really, how many people would remember that?  That said, I'd never consider disabling freelook the way I do crouching and jumping.  Too many people enjoy it and rely on it for it to be considered something that mappers should casually disallow.

I mean, if I'm playing for fun and not testing something, I turn off infinite height actors.  I'm sure that'd make some people mad.  But I don't care because I want to play the game in a way I enjoy!

I must say that freelook (in gzdoom, not prboom) can actually alter the combat in some ways, like shooting bfg in the floor in front of you, or rocketing enemies on a platform beneath you without risking to blow yourself. This may be a bit annoying when a map is focused on set-pieces and these little features simplify the gameplay significantly. This scenario is pretty rare though and there's no problem with freelook otherwise. I'm more likely to be upset by people running underneath my caco-swarms...

Because they dont have any real problems in their life and want to whine about something that isn't their business.

7 minutes ago, El Inferno said:

I must say that freelook (in gzdoom, not prboom) can actually alter the combat in some ways, like shooting bfg in the floor in front of you, or rocketing enemies on a platform beneath you without risking to blow yourself. This may be a bit annoying when a map is focused on set-pieces and these little features simplify the gameplay significantly. This scenario is pretty rare though and there's no problem with freelook otherwise. I'm more likely to be upset by people running underneath my caco-swarms...

and I do try to avoid these type of things I don't want to be cheap with it I just like to look around. I know you can BFG the floor and stuff but I never do on purpose anyway haha. I do also play with infinite actors off because I do like to give the cacodemons more range and I always thought it was BS to be blocked by somebody who was 500 miles above you haha

14 minutes ago, Salmon said:

The only time people using freelook annoys me is when I'm designing shootable switches in my maps.  I don't play with freelook (just my preference) but I test my maps at least once with it on.  Sometimes I'll have what I think would be nice placement for a shootable switch, only to realize that freelook allows it to be accessed too early or from the "wrong" position.  It's a lot harder to embed shootable switches to hide them from multiple angles.  That said, I keep my annoyance to myself, since it's honestly nice to have anyone play my maps at all.

 

I could just say "Don't use freelook to shoot switches," but really, how many people would remember that?  That said, I'd never consider disabling freelook the way I do crouching and jumping.  Too many people enjoy it and rely on it for it to be considered something that mappers should casually disallow.

 

I mean, if I'm playing for fun and not testing something, I turn off infinite height actors.  I'm sure that'd make some people mad.  But I don't care because I want to play the game in a way I enjoy!

Shootable switches are a tricky thing and I try to avoid shooting switches that I know I shouldn't shoot yet. from a building perspective a way to avoid it could be to put the switches further into a wall cavity but yeah that's a tricky one

So yeah free looking can cause these kind of problems if the player chooses to abuse it which I always try to avoid haha

But I also play with infinite height off. It makes cacodemons and flying monsters more of a threat I think

Yeah I'll echo everyone else and say that it could be annoying as a mapper when you spend hours fine-tuning the combat to be playable in a certain compatibility, then someone does something like run over/under monsters or use freelook to shoot a switch that they're not supposed to be able to shoot yet. Of course if you're not doing anything like this I really don't care how you play.

I'm fine with people doing this on their own casually, but it gets pretty aggravating when players don't follow certain compatibility guidelines that the mapper put in place, AND THEN try to give the mapper feedback about how X or Y is broken/dumb. That can be annoying. In my opinion, the more a player decides to deviate from the intended compatibility, the less credibility the player has in providing feedback.

I'm sure I have said similar things before - Doom is a game to enjoy. Different people enjoy it in different ways, and that is absolutely the way it should be.

Certainly, some people prefer the old-style of no freelook and even keyboard only, but I have seen many mentions of mouse look being planned in from the start. Others - like me - like the more natural (IMHO) behaviour of mouse with freelook. Let's face it, in the real world, you can look up, and even down! It's OK to play either way, and different people will have different preferences.

So yes, I unashamedly like the ability to freelook and aim in the vertical plane as well as the horizontal plane (I use GZDoom exclusively). It makes playing feel more intuitive. Agreed, it's not pure 1993 Doom, but that's OK. The game is still around and is still played widely - all you guy here of course! - and has evolved into different forms.

Lets keep it that way.

2 hours ago, GarrettChan said:

[...] this type of questioning way, it's annoying.

You should eat burger from the ribcage of lambs, not the butt of cows, you puny mortal! I am the alpha and the omega! Muhahahahaaaaah!

I played Doom back in the 90s and didn’t use it then, but now I only play with freelook. I like to be able to aim myself. It’s more fun for me. I won’t ever play without it now. 

I don't mind when people play with freelook (both playstyles are cool and no one should the gatekeeped because of it), however calling it a "purist" issue is a disservice imo. There are legitimate problems thay may happen with freelook on maps that are not designed with it on mind. Not only gun-switches, but you can also break a few setpieces with it. Gzdoomers make maps for gzdoom so they tend to think there's no problem with it at all, but this is not always true.
 

As with jumping, the best you can do is looking for the recommended settings of the map. If it's not recommended with freelook, there's probably a good reason for it - sometimes it's just visualwise but sometimes it goes beyond that.

3 hours ago, seed said:

No-one gets offended by this.

 

It only becomes problematic when it comes to players insisting on using freelook when playing wads which were purposefully designed against it, as it enables the player to reach switches, platforms, or monsters/closets they are normally not supposed to reach at all, or they are, but at a later time, or via different means - then complain that something broke or whatever.

 

Seed is right, it's not a real problem if you use it with mods or map sets that let you use it, like for example brutal doom. But if you start using it with maps that aren't really designed for it, it can result in breaking the game, take the icon of sin as an example, you really aren't supposed to use freelook against it, but some people do, making the final boss a joke, when you're supposed to time your rockets in order to kill it.

48 minutes ago, Gustavo6046 said:

 

You should eat burger from the ribcage of lambs, not the butt of cows, you puny mortal! I am the alpha and the omega! Muhahahahaaaaah!

Is this... a cultural reference? Sorry I didn't get it.

EDIT: I kind of get it now, but probably still good to have an explanation so I don't look like a dumbass next time (will there?).

16 minutes ago, Lol 6 said:

 

Seed is right, it's not a real problem if you use it with mods or map sets that let you use it, like for example brutal doom. But if you start using it with maps that aren't really designed for it, it can result in breaking the game, take the icon of sin as an example, you really aren't supposed to use freelook against it, but some people do, making the final boss a joke, when you're supposed to time your rockets in order to kill it.

There are exceptions to that. For example, the endurance tournament led by Endless allows freelook in the game as a rule, making the final wall a joke, as you said. 

Still, I'm a guy that use and doesn't use freelook depending of the situation. Offended by it? No, by all means and I don't care. In cases that shootable switches are in the player's sight, I hold up until that moment when I need to shoot. 

Has someone else been giving you needless shit for using freelook, Clip, or are you still hung up over that one mapper's friend who made an ass out of himself in our respective comments sections over a particular playthrough that the mapper themself didn't even agree with and appreciated our vids?

You can play my maps the way you want, I don't give a f**k. Let's people have their fun.