New Map! ELEVATED RESPONSE - a beautiful UAC mountainside base

It's a really lovely looking map.  I liked the interconnected layout and the flow from indoor to outdoor spaces felt good.  The geometry is solid and the combination of the lighting and the sky give the map a sense of time passing that's hard to convey in Doom--it's not easy to capture a transitional period like sunset/sunrise, but you absolutely did here.  It's beautiful and a little eerie.

Other thoughts:

• I know you said it'd be easy, but it was easier than I expected and I'm not a strong player.  The ending fight was lively and fun.
• I can see how it was intended as a map 01, but the scope of the map feels too large for the mild combat.  I found it relaxing for a bit but was a little bored before the last fight.
• The positioning of the keys felt wrong to me.  I think I found both keys before seeing the doors they were associated with.  That's hard to do with non-linearity, though.
• The secrets were easy but enjoyable and well done.

It's an impressive map for a month of work.  I know I griped about the combat but I still had a good time.  Really great atmosphere.

Beautiful map with really good non-linear design! 

Played through on HNTR - died twice (once by a hitscanner, and once in the (almost) finale), got all the kills.  The level is large, but not one that you get lost in - even when i was unsure of where exactly was i going, it always ended up well - i think i took about 26 minutes. 

The balance of ammo, weapons and health was spot on for me - always almost running out and just in nick of time getting refreshed.  Difficulty level exactly where it should be...think i would've been overwhelmed with more and underwhelmed with less - making it exactly challenging.

And it's pretty, whilst still retaining the feel of original Doom.

Sweet map, fam. Interesting use of height variation, fun combat and straightforward progression. I loved the layout and design of the map and the level of detail is just delicious.

This was a lot of fun! I stand by the notion that OTEX doesn't always work with iwad textures but the texturing work here (regardless where they come from) is amazing, especially combined with how interesting the architecture is. I don't know if it was intended or not, but are the waterfall textures supposed to not animate at all? (or maybe that's an issue only i am having?)

Also, regarding combat, the resource scarcity makes it a lot harder than you'd think for this enemy count and types of monsters used here. I will say though, that blue key ambush is reaaaally boring... The spectres can be easily maneuvered, you've got room to spare to deal with the cacos, not much incentive to use any specific weapons or to prioritize specific targets, it just feels like a grind to kill all enemies while circle strafing in that cave. Also, when following the river, there's a dead end that seems to be there for no purpose...? Unless i missed a secret or something, it would be neat if you've put *something* there to give that little area some purpose.

Onto a few more positives though: I REALLY like how you've handled progression, especially with how the chaingunner was this threat/tease at the start to have you go "damn... i wonder when i'm getting there, i really could use that chaingun right now" throughout the first half of the map", and the fight on top of that laaarge building after you obtain the chaingun is VERY challenging and a lot of fun too. All in all i really enjoyed the map :)

Like the progression and design, but actually didn't like the scarcity of resources. A lot of the time I was just running around with a pistol. But again, the design is AMAZING. Just loved it.

I do have one question - which editor can be used to create lightning like that? And how do you disable jumping on a map?

Well hot damn, really appreciative of the feedback so far everyone!

Let me just go through some of this.

@Salmon

@dei_eldren Glad you found the ammo balance and difficulty in a good spot. It's always the toughest thing to get right, and I certainly was careful to try and keep it "Map 01 reasonable" levels of difficulty whilst not committing to either a total famine or a total glut of resources. Also glad you noted it still feels like classic Doom, as that's what I was going for. I love maps that fully commit to a modern look, but I always find it charming when a map can get a little modern without compromising the classic Doom quality. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

@Biodegradable it's an honor as always, love the video! 

• "I don't have a berserk...don't know what I'm doing." Funny enough, there actually is a berserk in an early secret you missed.
• Was also pretty amusing watching you go for that soul sphere (sorry about the soft lock!), especially because you explored the other side of that platform and I was expecting you to immediately go to check the other side, but then you jumped down instead :P
• "Pulled the rug out from under me ya bastard!" Hah, I mean I was technically telling the truth from a relative perspective ;) Plus, having a panicked reaction to a situation going tits up is kind of your schtick, couldn't deny you the opportunity to include it in a video

Thanks for playing buddy!

@Clippy 

• Canadian winters sound harsh, eff all that cold! Glad you were able to find an alternative to start your morning with this map.
• "Why aren't I dead yet?" Funny, I ask myself this same question every morning before I get out of bed.
• You almost found the secret berserk near the beginning. I mean like you did everything EXCEPT walk up to the door you opened, you even identified where the secret was and humped the wall that opened it up.
• "Oh nooooooo." Oops, I COMPLETELY forgot about that soft lock, which of course I identified very early during testing and then forgot to circle back to. Will fix it in an update.

Much obliged for the video, always fun to watch. "Good times" ;)

@MattFright

@LouigiVerona

Cheers everyone and thanks for playing!!

I saw @Clippy play it on his YouTube channel and I love this WAD. I'm about to try it for myself. Like I commented, it reminds me of Redfaction 2 or the early stages of Halo 3. I was also wondering if I could use the texture pack you used? Also, how did you get the air to be brown? Maybe it's not the air but the effect of everything being brown, IDK.

3 hours ago, LVENdead said:

 

@dei_eldren Glad you found the ammo balance and difficulty in a good spot. It's always the toughest thing to get right, and I certainly was careful to try and keep it "Map 01 reasonable" levels of difficulty whilst not committing to either a total famine or a total glut of resources. Also glad you noted it still feels like classic Doom, as that's what I was going for. I love maps that fully commit to a modern look, but I always find it charming when a map can get a little modern without compromising the classic Doom quality. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

You're welcome, and thanks for sharing this map, sincerely it's one of the best maps i've played - because i really appreciate your approach of joining classicism and modernism, and skill in implementing it!  i hope you make more, because many who use modern look go all out there, and sometimes for me, as great as their work is in itself, it's too far from the original.  Also, i'm glad you were meticulous about the balance, even on easier difficulty that many sadly tend to i'll not say ignore but not give too much thought to - i was a bit worried going in!

Will play through your earlier levels, too!  Lots of monsters, probably more challenging, but don't wanna miss out on your designs!

Your maps would be perfect for Ironeagle or other competitions here.... :)

5 hours ago, Retro Dino said:

I was also wondering if I could use the texture pack you used?

The custom textures I used came from the OTEX pack by ukiro. They are the same textures used in Eviternity.

5 hours ago, Retro Dino said:

Also, how did you get the air to be brown? Maybe it's not the air but the effect of everything being brown, IDK.

It's a feature of UDMF format maps called "global sector color". It basically applies a colored tint to everything and everyone in a particular sector. 

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2 hours ago, dei_eldren said:

Lots of monsters, probably more challenging, but don't wanna miss out on your designs!

 

My previous maps are a lot harder than this one, and only Aspect of Daedalus actually has difficulty implemented in monster and item placement. I think you'd like Aspect though if you like the marriage of iWAD + modern textures, although it's made in Boom format so there's no fancy sector lighting or anything. Then between the other two maps, one is completely stock textures (my first map) and the other completely OTEX (the second). 

2 hours ago, dei_eldren said:

i hope you make more

I'm absolutely planning on it ;)

Non-linear map with a sunset orange coloring? Count me in!

I really liked this map. It's a good looking map and I enjoyed playing it. I thought you did a good job with the difficulty for my taste.

I thought the layout and design of the map was really good as well. I really hope you make more maps, I would definitely be interested in playing them.

Those screenshots look really beautiful!

Very nice architecture. It's definitely something worth looking at. I admire your way of designing true looking structures. It's all looking great. The elements like caves are also very well done. Good job!

Now, the problems.

But first of all a little explanation of my setup. I'm using Brutal Doom - ALWAYS! Difficulty is always Ultra Violance. The enemies are tweeked by Brutal Doom, so they aren't vanilla monsters - they are a faster, stronger and more dangerous with additional types of attacks. 

Having that out of the way please consider at least some of the arguments below as very much related to my way of playing Doom. 

So here are the shortcomings (some related to my setup):

 - ammo is way too scarce. I was running around like hell to find something usefull to take out the enemies. 

 - there are traps that simply don't really make traps. That would need some further explanation. For example in the cave with the blue card there is a niche with a little army of former humans. It's not a trap since when I reached that place the niche was open and enemies were just waiting to be eliminated easily one by one.

 - blue card place, on the other hand, is surrounded by a way too heavy trap (this is related to my setup). It was difficult for me to go through this part. I died multiple times.

- so on one hand you give me a chance to eliminate the enemies very easily - like in the beginning of the game and on the other hand you toss a way too much of them at me very unexpectedly. If that's the purpose give me a chance to escape. I think it requires your attention to make that part of the gameplay more consistent.

 - the blue card location doesn't really have a purpose. I picked it up - then after surviving the battle - I was again running around to really find the right way how to find the place to use this card. This is actually not a big problem given the fact that the map is by definition non-linear.

- last but not least - the layout problems:

  - there is a significant moment when I can clearly see I can jump down on a lower cliff that could probably lead me to some nice bonus area, but I can't. There is a blocking line apparently and I can't jump on. It's definitely something to repair because it's against the common ideas for those kind of design elements.

To wrap it up: very beautifull map. From the architectural point of view - it's outstanding. From the gameplay point of view - there are some problems. Mind though that I'm using special setup and some traps might be a lot easier using purist's approach.

I'm usually not really writing that much but I really liked your map so I thought you deserve a broad comment.

So I gave the map a little playthrough and the orange early evening theme definitely sets the mood well and the rocky landscape is pretty cool to look at and run around in. Finding my way around after grabbing the blue key did take some time as trying to remember where you have and haven't ventured is always a problem I have with open, non-linear maps (seriously my navigation skills are worse than a blind pigeon...) .

Got some pretty interesting fights that are fair and mostly well balanced but, why is the battle after the blue key so stupidly difficult compared to the rest of the map? Up to this point, you've faced imps, spectres/pinkies, cacodemons and all 3 former types but suddenly, you face down 3 revenants, a pain elemental and an archvile? That difficulty spike is really unwarranted and a little unexpected. (especially for HMP).

Overall a solid map but weirdly balanced map.

14 hours ago, LVENdead said:

My previous maps are a lot harder than this one, and only Aspect of Daedalus actually has difficulty implemented in monster and item placement. I think you'd like Aspect though if you like the marriage of iWAD + modern textures, although it's made in Boom format so there's no fancy sector lighting or anything. Then between the other two maps, one is completely stock textures (my first map) and the other completely OTEX (the second). 

Haha, i got through the first open area, and the waste tunnels (with savescumming), but then the slaughter began...!  No, the map is really brilliant design, again, but that part is way too hard for me on HNTR, i was forced to admit after over ten tries as i could not even begin to formulate a working plan!  Watched the videos, and biodeg and Clippy also had slight problems (though on UV...)  But really nice... one day i'll beat it. :)

Look forward to your further creations!

very cool

15 hours ago, Elendir said:

For example in the cave with the blue card there is a niche with a little army of former humans. It's not a trap since when I reached that place the niche was open and enemies were just waiting to be eliminated easily one by one.

So I'll preface this by saying I'm not defending the quality of this element, only describing the intent. This being a relatively simple (non)"trap" is on purpose. Anyone who runs carelessly into the room is bound to get popped a couple of times in the back by the formers, but otherwise they make for some nice fodder to blast, and provide a brief distraction for anyone who doesn't happen to see the spectres sneak up on them. It's a very low-threat encounter. It's not my intent to make every surprise something deadly. Sometimes the surprise is just a nice cluster of monsters to blow away.

15 hours ago, Elendir said:

on the other hand you toss a way too much of them at me very unexpectedly. If that's the purpose give me a chance to escape.

Respectfully, I feel like that trap is pretty well telegraphed, it might as well have a sign that says "this is absolutely a trap". Outside of that, the encounter is balanced around vanilla Doom, which I feel is very easy for a "key trap", and I don't really make considerations for mods when balancing anything. Between the chainsaw, berserk you can find in a secret, and the possibility that the player has the chaingun, but at least has the shotgun with a minimum of 40 shells (there are two boxes in that room on UV), along with the amount of room you can kite the monsters around with and the ability to get the spectres to try to infight the cacos, I don't think it's an unreasonable encounter. Now, is it fun/not boring? That's a completely different matter. But I am well aware of how absurdly difficult Brutal Doom (and its family of offshoots) can make WADS. I played through Alien Vendetta in Project Brutality. It was fucking bonkers.

15 hours ago, Elendir said:

the blue card location doesn't really have a purpose.

I'm not really sure what you mean by this. The purpose is that you get the key there and then you leave, unless you meant something else by that observation.

15 hours ago, Elendir said:

there is a significant moment when I can clearly see I can jump down on a lower cliff that could probably lead me to some nice bonus area, but I can't.

I mean I don't really think that's a very unreasonable way to incorporate a blocking line, but at the same time I don't think your point is invalid. I could potentially alter the geometry to make the jump visually appear impossible.

Thank you for playing, I appreciate your thoughtful feedback and you giving it a chance :)

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10 hours ago, DynamiteKaitorn said:

why is the battle after the blue key so stupidly difficult compared to the rest of the map? Up to this point, you've faced imps, spectres/pinkies, cacodemons and all 3 former types but suddenly, you face down 3 revenants, a pain elemental and an archvile? That difficulty spike is really unwarranted and a little unexpected.

This is probably the clearest piece of evidence that this map had an initial concept that later changed slightly when I came back to it. The original setpiece there had a much "deeper" outside area (it extended back much further toward an actual building) and it was filled with a bunch of former humans and it was basically just a fun encounter to blow up some fodder monsters with the rocket launcher. When I came back to it, I scrapped that and gave the fight some actual teeth, because it's not just leading to another map, the WAD is "over" after.

Because I wasn't going to alter giving the player the RL, I tried to consider what else would be fun to blow up with rockets but at the same time make something a bit challenging (that's why the pain elementals are there, b/c lost souls are the perfect counter to the RL). I certainly understand the argument that it's an unexpected and perhaps unfair change in difficulty (something I'm still learning to balance, this is only the 4th map I've published). I personally never thought it was very difficult of a fight, but I guess if you are playing blind it probably comes across as a bit harder of a slap than I considered. 

Anyway, I'm not trying to diminish or dismantle your critique, only explaining some elements of my thought process. I appreciate you giving it a playthrough all the same and I welcome the feedback, as I absolutely do consider pain points that people note when I look toward my next projects.

Hey LVEN... new to modern world of doom and new to the forums here. After lurking for a couple weeks I decided to try out some wads from other designers. This was the first one I picked up. The architecture alone prompted me to finally sign up and leave a msg. It is a huge inspiration for me and my noobish wads lol... anyway! really enjoyed all aspects of the map. Not to savvy yet in leaving meaningful critiques but you have definitely left me inspired!

Just played it, really enjoyed it. You really have a cool style there mixing a bit of otex with Doom II stock textures, and the detailing is pretty good.

The only drawback I can see is about the blue key encounter, since I played it 2 times I can say is way to easy, I punched out every spectre and those 2 cacos,

I think it needed more cacos for sure (I could have used the chainsaw too). Everything else is quite good! gotta play Malleable intent someday, missed that one.

@Craftnicks Welcome to the community, I'm honored my map was a worthy reason to get started! No sweat if leaving deep critique isn't your thing, even just knowing someone gave your map a try is good enough for most authors! 

@Soulless thanks for giving the map a try! The style was really tough to nail and took a lot of iterating. I spend so much time changing my mind, I should find a way to get paid for it lol. The blue key area is such a let down for me. If I didn't have fatigue on this map I'd say it could stand for a total overhaul, but at this point I'd rather just put the energy into a new project.

Let me know what you think of Malleable Intent if you ever give it a try. I think it's a pretty decent map still, and you can get a glimpse of where some of my styling ideas gestate.

10 hours ago, LVENdead said:

The blue key area is such a let down for me. If I didn't have fatigue on this map I'd say it could stand for a total overhaul, but at this point I'd rather just put the energy into a new project.

Hey dont hit yourself too much, been there done that. I thought of the idea of going back to my previous maps and fix them, but I also prefer to put the energy,

and any new trick I learn into future works.

10 hours ago, LVENdead said:

I spend so much time changing my mind, I should find a way to get paid for it lol.

Tell me about it! I can spend hours looking at the screen, changing floor and ceiling million times until everything clicks, just for a single room.

Keep the good mapping buddy!

A fun, short and sweet map. Really love the dim light choice in here, the music is also very enjoyable and it really adds to the overall atmosphere of the map. My only gripe with the map, if you could call it that, would be that I find the gameplay not very engaging. Then again this may be because i've been on a slaughter map streak recently, so compared to something like that this feels more on the easier side of things.

Overall looking forward to more releases like this, keep it up.