Those nasty invisible sectors... guess it's time I asked...

I suppose anyone who edits wads knows what I'm talking about: those crazy invisible sectors that seem to continue off the end of a cliff. Like you're in a road runner cartoon. You never made such a sector, and even IDDT won't reveal any linedefs, but somehow the sector ends and you drop off... somewhere. I usually fix them by redoing the area around the problem, and it usually works. Only now I've got one in a huge sector that encompasses the entire level. It's a sky-viewing sector, one which is connected to every single window in the level. I found it out just now while testing my new area. I usually warp to the level, then use IDCLIP and head right for the area in question when I do this. In this case, that involves jumping out a window. But I didn't fall this time...

Seems that only some windows do this. Since you're not supposed to go out the windows at all, it's not a big problem. Except when you look out the window now, you see a texture on the lowest 128 units of the trick sector (the one that uses the F_SKY1 trick to make an illusion of the stationary sky). But I don't feel like deleting and redoing this sector (which is likely the biggest one I've ever made).

Is there a commonly used name for this error? Is there a better way to correct it? Or am I pretty much screwed?

If you examine your window, you'll probably find that either or both of it's linedefs are facing towards the higher sector (the window sector) rather than the lower sector (the sector next to the window). Flip the linedefs so they face away from the window, and this will fix it.

This also applies to steps, platforms etc. - make sure that the linedef(s) in question are facing towards the lower sector, and the bug should not appear.

(The other option is to use a better nodebuilder)

netnomad312 said:

I've got one in a huge sector that encompasses the entire level. It's a sky-viewing sector, one which is connected to every single window in the level.

As UD pointed out, your problem is typically created by an error in the nodebuilding process. I've had it happen to me when creating a large, open area. After I've inserted sectors, pillars, walls, etc. the problem goes away.

If you're creating a building:

1. with windows that only look out at the scenery and not at other parts of the building (or other buildings), and
2. the player never enters the outdoor sectors,

you should consider adding individual (or smaller groups) of outdoor sectors at the windows, rather than creating a huge outdoor sector first then putting in your building.

netnomad312 said:

Is there a commonly used name for this error?

I commonly call it a right fekking pain in the ass.

This used to happen to me all the time. Windows, raised alcoves along corridors etc etc. Anywhere there was significant height variation really, these invisible walls and platforms used to crop up. I used to spend half my tesing time wandering around my maps, gliding along the walls to see if anything was in the way.

In my case, they were all caused by a bug in the version of BSP I was using. since switching to a newer and better node builder, the problem has gone (I usually use DeePBSP).

I'll try flipping the linedefs first. They all face the window anyway.

I actually started with three windows in the first big room, each with their own viewing sector and trick sector. Once I figured out that I needed to see parts of the building from other parts, I just deleted two of the windows' extra sectors and extended the other one to include all the windows. After that I just kept stretching and adding windows to the sector until this happened.

The viewing sector has a ceiling of 384 and a floor of -512. Yep, it's pretty big. The trick sector has a height of -512 for both (which is why I shouldn't be seeing a texture as if it was -384).

netnomad312 said:

I suppose anyone who edits wads knows what I'm talking about

I guess I don't edit wads then.

Well, okay, a lot of people, then.

netnomad312 said:

Once I figured out that I needed to see parts of the building from other parts, I just deleted two of the windows' extra sectors and extended the other one to include all the windows.

When doing this, did you reassign the outward sides of the window lines to the correct (extended) sector number? Other than that, the node builder advice above is just what the Dr. ordered.

WadAuthor does that automatically when you flip any linedef.

netnomad312 said:

WadAuthor does that automatically when you flip any linedef.

Unless it's a one-sided linedef. Also, if you "join" two identical sectors by deleting the linedefs separating them and then joining the vertices, the remaining linedefs retain their original sector references, and you'll get an unclosed sector error. The best way is to join the linedefs separating the sectors and either:

1. retain the original sectors and their respective linedef references, or
2. delete the linedef separating the two joined sectors, and make sure that the linedefs in the combined sector have the same sector reference.

Method 1 above is the most straightforward. In any case, I don't believe any of this is responsible for your invisible "sinkhole" sectors.

netnomad312 said:

WadAuthor does that automatically when you flip any linedef.

That is not correct in the manner I meant. If you have valid, correct sector references on both sides of a line, they are correct after flipping the line. If you have an incorrect sector reference on one side of the line, that incorrect reference is not fixed by flipping the line...just tried it.

Oh, I never flip a one-sided linedef. In my experience that's always asking for trouble.

No one ever flips a one-sided linedef and no one in this thread suggested that you did or should. I'm only correcting the error you made when you said that WadAuthor "fixes" invalid sector references when flipping a line. It does not, it simply retains the sector references, valid or invalid.