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Pompeji

Quick Skybox Question

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So I'm making a hell map and I want it to start kinda open, like E3M1. How did they achieve the look of a small wall surrounding the map but a huge open sky? Is it possible for me to put the sky textures on a wall and have it still look like a sky? And why doesn't the sky texture I use work? I want to use one of the Doom 2 sky textures but the only one that works when put on the ceiling is F_SKY. I think it's called SKY3 or SKY4 but the one I want to use has a red sky with mountains.

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Actually it is pretty fun to know that in the starting area of E3M1 you are touching the ceiling with your head, so there is no trick there, the sky is really that low.

 

However, if you want to make some low walls all you have to do is to build two "layers" of walls (so they have to be composed of sidedefs not linedefs). The first one, the one that is closed to the player, will be your actual wall. You can raise it at any height.

After that you will have a wall with an empty space behind it, composed of the other wall (or sector) that you haven't modified and of the default linedefs that normally have to be textured to avoid hall of mirrors (the bonds of the map).

Now, edit  the sector that is behind your first wall (the second wall) giving it the sky texture as the ceiling texture. Leave anything else untextured. If you have done everything in the correct way when you lower the ceiling of the second wall the hall of mirror that will result from the lack of textures in its upper part will be rendered from the engine like a normal sky, giving the impression of a wall that is not as high as the rest of the room

 

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On 2/24/2021 at 8:01 AM, Pompeji said:

Is it possible for me to put the sky textures on a wall and have it still look like a sky?

No, using a sky texture on a wall will make it look like a poster of the sky, not the way DooM displays the "skybox".

 

On 2/24/2021 at 8:01 AM, Pompeji said:

And why doesn't the sky texture I use work? I want to use one of the Doom 2 sky textures but the only one that works when put on the ceiling is F_SKY.

DooM2 skies will not natively work in DooM. You would need to insert the relevant sky texture into your DooM wad.

 

F_SKY is a FLAT, not a TEXTURE. Moreover, F_SKY works differently from other FLATS, and the graphic looks the same regardless of which skybox is created. Using this on your ceiling (or floor) will create a skybox with a sky that corresponds to the one assigned to the relevant episode (which also applies in DooM2, which uses quasi-episodes).

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41 minutes ago, ReX said:

No, using a sky texture on a wall will make it look like a poster of the sky, not the way DooM displays the "skybox".

 

DooM2 skies will not natively work in DooM. You would need to insert the relevant sky texture into your DooM wad.

 

F_SKY is a FLAT, not a TEXTURE. Moreover, F_SKY works differently from other FLATS, and the graphic looks the same regardless of which skybox is created. Using this on your ceiling (or floor) will create a skybox with a sky that corresponds to the one assigned to the relevant episode (which also applies in DooM2, which uses quasi-episodes).

 

I've figured out what I want to do! Deleting the textures on walls adjacent to the sky flat makes the wall display the flat the way it is intended to look like. Then I had to change my map from MAP01 to MAP30 in order to display the texture I wanted. To clarify, I'm making a Doom 2 map.

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Are you making your map for vanilla Doom2.exe?

Or is there a specific source engine you're making the map for?

eg, Zdoom, Gzdoom, etc.

 

The reason I ask is because different answers could be given depending on the questions above. 

 

If it's for Doom2.exe then yeah the sky image would need (added to your PWAD as a new entry). ~ which was the typical way of going about it for years.

And actually still is.

 

If it's for a source engine like Gzdoom, you could setup a MAPINFO and the sky can be changed there in plain text, changed to the hell sky for map01.

Just for that reason, you likely don't want to change your map to map30 just so you'd have the sky you want, heh.

 

Edited by Mr.Rocket

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12 minutes ago, Mr.Rocket said:

Are you making your map for vanilla Doom2.exe?

Or is there a specific source engine you're making the map for?

eg, Zdoom, Gzdoom, etc.

 

The reason I ask is because different answers could be given depending on the questions above. 

 

If it's for Doom2.exe then yeah the sky image would need changed. ~ which was the typical way of going about it for years.

 

If it's for a source engine like Gzdoom, you could setup a MAPINFO and the sky can be changed there in plain text.

Just for that reason, you likely don't want to change your map to map30 just so you'd have the sky you want, heh.

 

 

Actually, MAP30 is the sky I want! Just worried if the map will load properly.

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Right I know the sky for map30 is the hell sky you want, but do you really want your map number to be map30, or would you rather it be map01? so end user doesn't have to warp to map30 to play your wads level.

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9 minutes ago, Mr.Rocket said:

Right I know the sky for map30 is the hell sky you want, but do you really want your map number to be map30, or would you rather it be map01? so end user doesn't have to warp to map30 to play your wads level.

 

I'd rather it be MAP01! How do I do that.

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Ok, there's 2 ways it can be done. 

But first what are your using as your game engine?> Doom2.exe via DosBox or Gzdoom.exe source engine?

 

One way is how @ReX explained, by adding the hell sky into your wad manually by means of graphic utility for Doom/Doom2.

 

Or by creating a MAPINFO entry and placing it your map, or by directory pk3 structure and creating a MAPINFO.text and adding a small script.

 

Which do you prefer?

I guessing the easiest way? both are actually easy but those are your options. ;)

 

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12 minutes ago, Mr.Rocket said:

Ok, there's 2 ways it can be done. 

But first what are your using as your game engine?> Doom2.exe via DosBox or Gzdoom.exe source engine?

 

One way is how @ReX explained, by adding the hell sky into your wad manually by means of graphic utility for Doom/Doom2.

 

Or by creating a MAPINFO entry and placing it your map, or by directory pk3 structure and creating a MAPINFO.text and adding a small script.

 

Which do you prefer?

I guessing the easiest way? both are actually easy but those are your options. ;)

 

 

GZDoom, but I would do it in MAPINFO if possible.

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Ok take a look at this .rar and how it's structured.

sky_stuff.rar

~ only used UDB and notepad for this..

 

if you rename the .rar to .pk3 you could run it as is.

 

 

And here's the version of the pwad where the mapinfo is internally in the pwad:

sky_stuff01.zip

~ used UDB and XWE for this, but you could use Slade if you want to edit the internal structure of your pwad.

 

 

Give me a second and I'll fix up the old school way where there is no mapinfo and the sky image is added into the pwad instead.

sky_stuff01_old_school_sky.zip

~ used UDB and XWE for this, but you could use Slade if you want to edit the internal structure of your pwad.

In this case, I viewed my Doom2.wad in XWE, saved the needed hell SKY to my desktop, RSKY3.bmp, then loaded the sky_stuff pwad in XWE and loaded the RSKY3 into Patches..

 

 

Btw, don't look at the map too close lol as I just threw it together for testing.. it's super simple but it should give you an idea of how I setup the outside sky as well. ;)

You'll notice an area out there behind that wall where the floor and ceiling are both 0 height.

 

Edited by Mr.Rocket

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37 minutes ago, Mr.Rocket said:

Ok take a look at this .rar and how it's structured.

sky_stuff.rar

 

if you rename the .rar to .pk3 you could run it as is.

 

And here's the version of the pwad where the mapinfo is internally in the pwad:

sky_stuff01.zip

 

Give me a second and I'll fix up the old school way where there is no mapinfo and the sky image is added into the pwad instead.

sky_stuff01_old_school_sky.zip

 

Btw, don't look at the map too close lol as I just threw it together for testing.. it's super simple but it should give you an idea of how I setup the outside sky as well. ;)

You'll notice an area out there behind that wall where the floor and ceiling are both 0 height.

 

 

Thank you so much!

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10 hours ago, Mr.Rocket said:

If it's for a source engine like Gzdoom, you could setup a MAPINFO and the sky can be changed there in plain text, changed to the hell sky for map01.

@Pompeji: Note, that you can also use MAPINFO to change the music, so that the music from Map 30 (or any other map) will play. MAPINFO can also be used to modify a shit-ton of other gameplay parameters.

 

Additionally, if you're developing a map for GZDooM, you can add a tremendous number of features not found in vanilla DooM. Arguably, the easiest one to understand and implement is the use of 3D floors.

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30 minutes ago, ReX said:

@Pompeji: Note, that you can also use MAPINFO to change the music, so that the music from Map 30 (or any other map) will play. MAPINFO can also be used to modify a shit-ton of other gameplay parameters.

 

Additionally, if you're developing a map for GZDooM, you can add a tremendous number of features not found in vanilla DooM. Arguably, the easiest one to understand and implement is the use of 3D floors.

 

I'm using UDB, GZDoom and my map is Doom in Doom II format. I like to keep things simple and vanilla, and I've tinkered with MAPINFO before so I have an idea on how to use it. I only made my map MAP30 because it's a hell level so it displays the sky I want. Will it break anything if I change it back to MAP01?

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2 minutes ago, Pompeji said:

I'm using UDB, GZDoom and my map is Doom in Doom II format. I like to keep things simple and vanilla

If you don't intend to to use any GZDooM features (as evidenced by your desire to map in DooM format) except for MAPINFO, you ought to give some consideration to reaching a wider audience by not using use a sourceport-specific feature. If you're concerned about your map being large and detailed you could specify that your map requires the use of any limit-removing sourceport.

 

Not making your map sourceport-specific means the simplest way to use the Map 30 sky is to assign your map to that slot. [Technically, you can assign your map to any slot between Map 21 and Map 30 to get the hellish sky.]

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If you decide that you want it vanilla compatible, and you want the hell sky, and you want your map to be map01?

Then set up your wad like it did with sky_stuff01_old_school_sky.zip

This has no mapinfo and the hell sky is contained in the pwad its self. 

 

View the pwad in Slade for more info. ;)

 

Note that the map is not vanilla as it was constructed at the time in Gzdoom in Doom2 UDMF format, however the sky has been added to the pwad the old way/vanilla.

Edited by Mr.Rocket

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49 minutes ago, Mr.Rocket said:

Then set up your wad like it did with sky_stuff01_old_school_sky.zip

This has no mapinfo and the hell sky is contained in the pwad its self.

Using the TEXTUREx modification method does not even require the insertion of the RSKY3 patch (renamed to RSKY1). You can simply edit the TEXTURE1 lump to point the SKY1 texture to the RSKY3 patch. [This has the added advantage of not having to distribute idgames copyrighted materials with your wad. It also marginally reduces file size.]

 

See the attached file for what I'm speaking of.

sky_stuff02.zip

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True but I wasn't going to have Pompeji get into such technical modifications.

I didn't put much thought into the sky being a copyrighted material as there's been Doom/Doom2 texture wads since the late 90's.  

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9 minutes ago, Mr.Rocket said:

True but I wasn't going to have Pompeji get into such technical modifications.

Agreed.

 

9 minutes ago, Mr.Rocket said:

I didn't put much thought into the sky being a copyrighted material as there's been Doom/Doom2 texture wads since the late 90's.

Agreed again.

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Yeah, I struggle a lot with technical stuff because I'm more of a visual guy than a coding guy. I'd love to keep it simple and just use MAPINFO.

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In that case, in example 2 of my post above should be what you're after. sky_stuff01.zip

As the MAPINFO can be inserted into the pwad and doesn't require it to be in pk3 format, it just works.

Your map can be map01 with the hellsky without much work. ;)

 

~ though, keep in mind what @ReX was saying about MAPINFO being able to do so much more!

 eg, the level name, music, lightning, or have your sky slowly rotate, etc.

You'll notice in the MAPINFO that I intentionally //commented out music, so you (would ask) about it.

But I understand now that you've worked with MAPINFO before so you have the gits already. ;)

 

Edited by Mr.Rocket

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