Knee Deep Again - Episode 1 reimagined [WIP] (latest map E1M5)

21 minutes ago, Bobby “lolmcswagger” said:

I find it hard to believe you tested on Chocolate when there are NO NODES BUILT!

I did not test E1M3 on Chocolate. That was E1M2 from earlier in the post. Does it still say so? Hm...

Just now, sectrslayr said:

I did not test E1M3 on Chocolate. That was E1M2 from earlier in the post. Does it still say so? Hm...

Well uh shit, guess I can't read. Anyway, you should probably fix that, even though I can tell that people only played this map in a source port that builds nodes for them

Just now, Bobby “lolmcswagger” said:

Well uh shit, guess I can't read. Anyway, you should probably fix that, even though I can tell that people only played this map in a source port that builds nodes for them

 

I slacked this time. But I will check for port compatibility because I want to compile a whole episode. There are issues with E1M1 and E1M2 I already know about. Just wanted to get this one out of the door before holidays...

Just use a node builder or a map editor that has built in node builder functions like UDB, the latter being the more optimal thing

2 hours ago, LordEntr0py said:

Still uploading and I'm on my relatively slow wi-fi connection with this...

 

Thoroughly enjoyed this map! I could see all the elements of the original E1M3. It's more detailed than the original maps, but manages to be more detailed without losing any of the style and character. I feel like I'm playing a whole new E1 playing this series of maps.

 

Good stuff!

Oh @LordEntr0py! That was such a pleasure to watch! Like the idea of replacing the music. Those eerie songs so much deepened the atmosphere. It was like watching a horror movie I very well know. Predictable but still frightening. Amazing!

Yes, the secrets are very well hidden. Interesting that you had that so much trouble finding them. But you did find them after all!

I noticed the blinding light effects and contrast. It worked particularly well with this map. What graphics settings do you play on? Or is it a MOD?

Thanks for playtesting and recording!

28 minutes ago, sectrslayr said:

Oh @LordEntr0py! That was such a pleasure to watch! Like the idea of replacing the music. Those eerie songs so much deepened the atmosphere. It was like watching a horror movie I very well know. Predictable but still frightening. Amazing!

Yes, the secrets are very well hidden. Interesting that you had that so much trouble finding them. But you did find them after all!

I noticed the blinding light effects and contrast. It worked particularly well with this map. What graphics settings do you play on? Or is it a MOD?

Thanks for playtesting and recording!

Aw, thanks!

I first discovered that music while playing through the original version of System Shock. It enhanced the atmosphere of an otherwise dated game. It's been my go-to creepy retro FPS music ever since. And I got the idea from @Lazlo Panaflex when he played through one of my maps.

Double post because I posted the first accidentally and rushed to edit that.

The settings in GZDoom I use for contrast (specifically: "Sector light mode -> Doom"):

And the Bloom effect which makes the lighting glow so nicely:

And dynamic lights, of course.

2 hours ago, Bobby “lolmcswagger” said:

Just use a node builder or a map editor that has built in node builder functions like UDB, the latter being the more optimal thing

I just tried. It's not that simple. There are limitations that ended my play at the first lift. Have to look into this... Another time...

Just gave E1M3 a shot, and had a great time with it! Your skills have improved significantly since the last map, since this one is an upgrade in every respect. The lighting in parrticular was very strong, great contrast all around. I especially enjoyed your use of dramatic red highlights, they really give the base a more menacing feel. I also really like the layout, which has a way of folding in on itself. The degree of verticality in the map was a welcome surprise, too.

All the mechanical stuff like resource balance and progression was spot on, no issues whatsoever. The secrets were the real standout feature of the map for me, very clever, almost reminiscent of early NEIS in places. Actually, there are just a lot of small interesting details in the map, like the opening pinky horde, for example. This kind of experimentation is honestly kind of a neccessity in Doom 1 mapping these days, given the sheer number of E1 throwbacks out there.

In summary, this set is shaping up to be one of my favourite E1 replacements, and I look forward to seeing how it evolves in the future!

Note: I was going to point out the lack of nodes, but it seems someone already beat me to it. FYI, most map editors should build nodes by default when you save the map. Which one are you using?

6 hours ago, Omniarch said:

Just gave E1M3 a shot, and had a great time with it! Your skills have improved significantly since the last map, since this one is an upgrade in every respect. The lighting in parrticular was very strong, great contrast all around. I especially enjoyed your use of dramatic red highlights, they really give the base a more menacing feel. I also really like the layout, which has a way of folding in on itself. The degree of verticality in the map was a welcome surprise, too. 

Thank you for the kind words, @Omniarch! I had a lot of fun building this one. Also learned a thing or two. I'm glad I indeed improved on so many things at once. Doing a map for Doom2 in between E1M2 and E1M3 might have helped with that. The red lights are great but unusual in Doom1. So unusual indeed, that @Clippy even thought they where custom textures. The folding layout actually got in my way. It used up space and is not easy to untangle. I'm not yet there in terms of verticality, but I'm working on it.

6 hours ago, Omniarch said:

All the mechanical stuff like resource balance and progression was spot on, no issues whatsoever. The secrets were the real standout feature of the map for me, very clever, almost reminiscent of early NEIS in places. Actually, there are just a lot of small interesting details in the map, like the opening pinky horde, for example. This kind of experimentation is honestly kind of a neccessity in Doom 1 mapping these days, given the sheer number of E1 throwbacks out there.

The pinky horde was the actual driving idea for this map. It inspired @Clippy to record "pinky party" runs. Fun stuff! The "ever looming threat" as @Biodegradable put it in his video... Also a nice way to provide hordes when you have no monster teleporting (like in original E1). Surprising the player with teleporting monsters into previously empty rooms is pretty common among the WADs. It feels overused imho.

6 hours ago, Omniarch said:

In summary, this set is shaping up to be one of my favourite E1 replacements, and I look forward to seeing how it evolves in the future!

It will take some more time. But I'm determined. And I already have ideas for E1M4, E1M8 and E1M9. My favorite map always has been E1M5. That's why I might do it last.

6 hours ago, Omniarch said:

Note: I was going to point out the lack of nodes, but it seems someone already beat me to it. FYI, most map editors should build nodes by default when you save the map. Which one are you using?

I'm using SLADEs map editor. The configuration for node building with ZDBSP is easy, and I tried it before. But Chocolate Doom has some more limitations. I need to figure this out another time...

Command Control is in the making...

The project still lives! Yet...

...I tried to compile the existing maps into a single PWAD. Unfortunately I cannot edit E1M2 anymore since SLADE3 seems to have trouble with the data. It's perfectly playable though.

But it looks like I need to completely rebuild E1M1. I originally created it as my first map ever. But - following the tutorials - I created it in UDMF. There seems to be no way of copying it to Doom format. I did not try Ultimate Doom Builder yet since it does not run on Linux. In the meantime I can give you the current work in progress file. Consisting of E1M2, E1M3 and E1M4 (UV only). They seem to work just fine on PrBoom+. 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1cetaEx9bcRrFh0FelErsAxe59WnuupsY/view?usp=sharing

I like to concentrate my efforts on this from now on and hope I can provide you with updates sooner!

Regards,

sectrslayr

Feel free to send me your files and I’ll have a look. It should be possible to copy it so we can save you some trouble of having to do stuff all over again.

1 hour ago, Chris Hansen said:

Feel free to send me your files and I’ll have a look. It should be possible to copy it so we can save you some trouble of having to do stuff all over again.

Thanks for the help, Chris! I will send it over as soon as I’m back in my office. 🙏

Alright, thanks to @Chris Hansen we have a working WAD with all the maps of the project so far! I updated the topic description to match the project.

You can download it here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SQp65DJE4RpRhQ1hA8oUJSwgrXKWVINr/view?usp=sharing (Limit removing)

I moved away from GZDoom to fully develop everything with PrBoom. So let there be nodes! Good news!

=== Newest map [WIP] of the set E1M4: Command Control ===

And it's finally time for a new map for this project! This time we have E1M4: Command Control. It's WIP but basically only missing difficulty settings.

I'm away from computers for the coming three weeks, but I might be able to respond on DW.

===

Happy playtesting!

-Sectrslayer

@sectrslayr you never cease to amaze me bud - it's so hard for ppl to keep Doom 1 interesting, let alone following a strict Knee Deep budget. There were a lot of surprise here - especially that part where all hell broke loose. I never seen slaughter elements to a Knee Deep tribute but it was super interesting. There is a lot of love and nostalgia here and I ALWAYS have fun with these maps - I will look forward to more!!

Played the new version. This was very enjoyable! Very nice takes on the old maps, but with enough recognizable parts to actually feel like home. Very nice attention to detail, and a lot more monsters (and hence action) than the old maps. I have many secrets left to find though, so I'll likely play a few times more. I encountered a small mirror-effect affecting both floor and ceiling in the room just before the exit-room on E1M2. See the attached screenshot. Other than that, nice work! The yellow card on E1M3 was pretty cleverly hidden by the way ;)

Thanks @mmww for giving it a spin! I went a bit overboard with secrets in the first two maps because @Clippy loves them so much. 🙃

Thanks for spotting that bug on E1M2! I will make sure to address that on the next version… 👍

On 7/12/2022 at 8:35 PM, mmww said:

I encountered a small mirror-effect affecting both floor and ceiling in the room just before the exit-room on E1M2.

That's weird! I cannot see this in PrBoom+ 2.5.1.5. But I noticed some strange texture issues in SLADE 3.2.0. So I'm actually reluctant to touch this old map not to make things worse.

I'm guessing you are running DSDA or something? Seems there is no port for Linux. Maybe it's a node building issue...

20 hours ago, sectrslayr said:

That's weird! I cannot see this in PrBoom+ 2.5.1.5. But I noticed some strange texture issues in SLADE 3.2.0. So I'm actually reluctant to touch this old map not to make things worse.

I'm guessing you are running DSDA or something? Seems there is no port for Linux. Maybe it's a node building issue...

Okay! Yeah, I'm running dsda 0.21.3 from the AUR on Arch. I tested with gzdoom now though, and I can't see the issue there. Pretty interesting. I don't currently have prboom+ installed, but I could try that too. Probably the result will be the same as for you though, so I guess this is somehow related to dsda specifically then. Strange.

I played and beat the first 3 levels and got stuck on e1m4, but never died. Completed on HMP

e1m1: 100% kills, all secrets, allmap found. Good solid map. was a blast.

e1m2: 385/400 killed, 3/6 secrets, Allmap not gotten. Once Again good map. The numbers jump was a shock but wasn't really that bad. No close calls. Just solid run and gun.

e1m3-- missed 20 kills, cant recall on secrets. Good map. That opening to it was hilarious. Slightly painful to navigate toward the end after the last Switch! I don't know why but I couldn't find my way back to the area after the last switch before the exit. So I crouched back to the area. 

Finished E1M4 difficulty levels and made some bug fixes and changes on other places as well.

The download link still is https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SAF8d-_NpWpFWYBRqPIHimFLiRKe0dyz/view?usp=sharing

7 hours ago, kalensar said:

I played and beat the first 3 levels and got stuck on e1m4, but never died.

Hey @kalensar, thanks for playing! What exactly do you mean with you got stuck but never died? Is there a softlock I missed?

the drive link requires permission to access.

57 minutes ago, Redead-ITA said:

the drive link requires permission to access.

 

Ups, sorry. Hopefully I fixed it...

2 hours ago, sectrslayr said:

Hey @kalensar, thanks for playing! What exactly do you mean with you got stuck but never died? Is there a softlock I missed?

I meant that I was tired and ended up quitting out. I wrote that extremely tired after beating the first 3 levels and part of e1m4 in one sitting. 

E1M9 early WIP. The secret map is bending the rules of Knee Deep Again. All monsters, all weapons. Prepare to explore the shores of hell. But don't think you will make it out alive... 

Hello Doomworld! It's late and I'm tired. So please excuse me being brief.

Knee Deep Again has a new map for beta testing! https://drive.google.com/file/d/1kbtXT3rUCTBRU9qPXTpmji1Ynk5WQCBO/view?usp=share_link

This time it is the secret map E1M9. Quoting myself here:
 

Quote

The secret map is bending the rules of Knee Deep Again. All monsters, all weapons. Prepare to explore the shores of hell. But don't think you will make it out alive... 

I tested it on Crispy Doom so it should work in all major limit removing source ports. Difficulty levels are not yet implemented.

Please let me know any issues you might find! As always, I love to watch you play. So demos and videos are very welcome!

How you get to the secret map you ask? That's secret! :-P

Happy testing!

@Sectorslayer fun stuff as always - some thoughts

41 minutes ago, Clippy said:

read after watching: the secret I couldn't find : I see the trigger and feel it's impossible to obtain, I tried - at least on GZ - you cant walk over it properly to get it - also there is no rhyme or reason for it to be there - no signposting or similar attributes to the trigger & destination - secret yes - but there is usually some kind of logical connecting thread

Thanks for playing! I have seen a couple of  issues. Thankfully no big ones. The secret signpost being one of them. 
 

I was surprised how quickly you dealt with the Cyber. I beefed him up via dehacked to avoid this. At least that’s what I wanted. Updates incoming…

Thanks again 👍