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lazygecko

Quake Remastered

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wasn't easy, but i made it. just on hard though.

 

the boss encounter was interesting but also quite infuriating. i mean, it's nice to see that you can design interesting boss encounters in this 25 year old first person shooter. on paper, it was really well done. but i didn't like the lava balls that would fly around seemingly randomly. there wasn't a very consistent way of avoiding them besides just hiding behind a wall, waiting for the thunderbolt ammo to respawn. without enemy infighting, this would be much harder even. had a couple chamblers try to fight the boss, but they couldn't, so they were just running around, ignoring me. there wasn't enough ammo for the other monsters either. on nightmare, it would probably just be a bit harder. most mistakes are pretty much a death anyways. if you just keep running, you'll avoid most enemies and there's a high chance of infighting which helps a lot. the difficulty spike was perhaps a bit too steep. but then again, this is the final boss which should be hard.

 

overall i really liked the episode. it wasn't like dimensions of the past which felt like an extension to the original game. it was more like what quake 2 would've looked like if id would've made a sequel that was actually based on the original and not something that didn't have anything to do with quake. i loved the art direction. it took the general theme of quake, combining medieval fantasy with sci-fi, but giving it it's own look. 

 

q.jpg.abbf40332ef0a967ebecafeeb9a913a6.jpg

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On 8/30/2021 at 6:33 AM, TheUltimateDoomer666 said:

I have the same problem. Even when I set the in-game sound effect volume to 1, there is still extreme distortion when multiple sound effects play (the infinitely-looping sound effect glitch I get with certain sounds doesn't help).

 

Here is an example I recorded during gameplay to show just how bad the distortion is (volume warning): https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/uesn8blxio5gn3z/Quake_x64 2021-08-30 20-24-57-07.wav

 

Music is disabled, and the in-game sound effect volume is initially set to 1. I then gradually increase the sound effect volume to 10.

I did some testing on this.

Sound clips/distorts the same no matter what you set the sound volume to, observable when you normalize the recorded audio afterward.

 

This suggests the audio is being globally reduced in volume after the mixing stage. I hypothesize this reduction is also happening to music, which is why there are common complaints of music being quiet. From my inspection, music at max volume is playing 15dB quieter than the actual music files.

 

Outside of music, here's some waveforms of sound effects output. Above is WinQuake at volume 0.2. Below is Quake Ex at volume 1.0 (or 10 in menu). The recording is demo1 without music enabled.

vol_1.png.eaa2b633d927f459044e3c7ed9380a8e.png

The initial item pickup sound is the same volume. But later when there are multiple sounds you can tell Quake Ex is clipping hard and has been brickwalled.

 

 

Another comparison explains a possible reason why. Here is WinQuake at volume 1.0 compared to Quake Ex at volume 1.0.

vol_2.png.a288a1e0a77d2ec51b7e8c6178bf286d.png

Despite Quake Ex being much quieter, you can tell the waveform shapes are almost identical. It appears that Quake Ex is clipping the same as WinQuake here, then leveled down after that.

 

It seems internally the game is doing WinQuake volume 1.0 levels, then scaled down to the user's selected volume, which is a bad approach because WinQuake at volume 1.0 has a lot of clipping. It should be internally changed to match WinQuake volume 0.2 levels, and the post-mix volume reduction removed. If both of these are done, the volume range will match the current release while eliminating the distortion.

 

I suspect the degree that ingame music is quieter than the files on disk is the same as the ratio that Quake Ex sound is quieter than WinQuake volume 1.0. Thus, I think removing the post-mix volume reduction will also fix the music being too quiet, as I think it's being applied to both sound and music.

 

I would guess the volume reduction was added in the first place due to how loud the sounds are when based on WinQuake volume 1.0. I think WinQuake volume 1.0 is a bad starting point because of how much distortion there is if more than one sound is playing at once.

 

The best way to notice the distortion is to play Dissolution Of Eternity R1M4, Cave Of Death. Whenever an earthquake happens, it's total ear destruction in Quake Ex, with sounds distorted no matter what your volume setting is, and no distortion in winquake with volume 0.2 in console. Even winquake at volume 0.7 is okay (this is the value in quake's default.cfg.) Volume 1.0 results in the same mess as Quake Ex.

Edited by Tarvis

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The remaster is nice, and I'm happy that the game has some more potential, however, I do have a complaint. Bethesda.net never works for me on any Steam game, it just wont connect, which is kind of annoying. Hopefully it's just a proton issue, and not a bug with my account.

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@Tarvis If you're gonna share the DoE weapons then I suppose I shall share my proximity mine launcher for SoA then =P

 

Here: QuakeEX_hipnotic_md5.zip

 

Here's how the model looks:

516844522_fixeddathing.jpg.b28d5ae13c243942456d937649958990.jpg

 

Edited by Wavy : Fixed fullbright bug mentioned by Tarvis

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It looks like your texture is using some of the fullbright red palette section, so some pixels glow in the dark:

 

Best way to avoid this, if you're using photoshop, export the Quake palette but with the last 2 rows set to something like cyan that a conversion to paletted image would never map anything to. Then use that for creating your 8 bit image, then load the original palette back again

 

20210902202301_1.jpg.9af948b3407a852519c4df8cfa24ec96.jpg

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31 minutes ago, Tarvis said:

It looks like your texture is using some of the fullbright red palette section, so some pixels glow in the dark:

 

Best way to avoid this, if you're using photoshop, export the Quake palette but with the last 2 rows set to something like cyan that a conversion to paletted image would never map anything to. Then use that for creating your 8 bit image, then load the original palette back again

Ah. I quickly made it in GIMP. I'll fix this now

 

Edit: And it's fixed. See my previous post.

Edited by Wavy

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I got to wonder how many names are in the pool for bot names because every time I start a deathmatch with bots I seem to run into new ones and some of them are great. Like I wasn't expecting a name like Florida Man to be the name for a bot.

E-U5YpUVkA4n5Pl.jpg.4a2bac75ce5fc3eb193b56ebc2a8a8ea.jpg

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41 minutes ago, Rexen² said:

I got to wonder how many names are in the pool for bot names because every time I start a deathmatch with bots I seem to run into new ones and some of them are great. Like I wasn't expecting a name like Florida Man to be the name for a bot.

I opened pak0.pak in the id1 folder and if you go into /bots/characters.txt you'll find a list of all names a bot can have. I counted and there is 172 unique names.

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16 hours ago, Tarvis said:

 

vol_1.png.eaa2b633d927f459044e3c7ed9380a8e.png

 

So just the last bit of info, here's the places in original Quake mixer code to look:

 

snd_mix.c

S_TransferStereo16 and S_TransferPaintBuffer

Both functions reference "volume.value" which is the value of the volume cvar, in fact the only places in the whole engine they are read.

 

I believe in Quake Ex this value has been replaced with 1.0 or removed entirely.

E.g. the line they are used in: snd_vol = volume.value*256; could now be snd_vol = 1.0*256; or snd_vol = 256;

 

While this value would mix sounds at the same volume they are in the source files, it doesn't give any headroom for multiple sounds to play at once, resulting in the distortion people are reporting, and the capped/clipped/brickwalled/etc waveform you can see in the bottom recording.

 

I would suggest trying 0.7 * 256 or 0.2 * 256, then tweaking the output * 0.2 multiplication that Kex is doing way down the line to make the volume range the same.

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11 hours ago, Wavy said:

I opened pak0.pak in the id1 folder and if you go into /bots/characters.txt you'll find a list of all names a bot can have. I counted and there is 172 unique names.

That's a lot of names.

 

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Didn't know Copper was a thing, that would be cool as an addon as the change list seems to be very tasteful. Unfortunate to see regarding the lighting / shadows though, I thought the game looked brighter than when I last played on Mark V.

That said once again this is a wonderful release. Bought it on Steam, Xbox Series and Switch!

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With the mini-update they fixed the loading bug but they didn't fix the single-player megahealth respawning, the gib gravity and backpedal speed. I thought those three were little changes that didn't affect crossplay multiplayer ...

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dunno where else to post. started messing with trenchbroom. it's quite fun, but i have to get used to the workflow, having only used radiant in the past (and doombuilder of course). this is the first pic that i think starts to look ok. lightning is really not that easy. but if you stick to some basic rules, your map starts to look really cool, really fast. just love that idtech lightning. that's really just a test map i've put together in about an hour.

 

vkquake0000.png.5bafb81807081ede8362d20adc2d4c2c.png

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Just bought this from the Bethesda store to see if the multiplayer works...and it does! It's funny how a free update to a game I already own on Steam still got me to fork over $20 in total between GOG and this, but it was worth it. I got to play co-op on my pc with a friend on his Switch, and made a few new friends and contacts just by jumping into random deathmatch games. The only downside is that both the Steam version and Bethesda version share the same config file. One of my biggest peeves is when programs create folders to store config and save files so far away from where they're installed. I assume the reason is to try and keep the same settings if I need to reinstall, but it just feels cluttered and is another thing I have to hunt for to edit, or to delete when reinstalling.

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I have to say after playing the Quake remaster at length and then Quakespasm-Spiked for a while, the controller support definitely feels more natural in the latter. I think the remaster really could use a little more work there, it feels overly-slidey, both for movement and aiming, and well the game doesn't give very many options to adjust the experience.

 

Hoping they tune it more in updates.  

 

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For anyone who has issues with sound distortion and low music volume, someone has made a hex editing patcher on the steam forums that was made to fix these issues.

 

https://steamcommunity.com/app/2310/discussions/0/3035976838037677927/

 

Here's the resulting waveform of sound in demo1, compare it with my previous posts near the top of this page:vol4.PNG.14d432a892031a037db8dd7c521d15df.PNG

 

Previous problem areas like the multi-spike pillar in E1M5 and earthquakes + other sounds in R1M4 no longer have any noticeable distortion.

It also raises the max music volume by a lot, as it was previously multiplied by 20% in the engine, this reduction has been removed.

Edited by Tarvis

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5 hours ago, Lippeth said:

Just bought this from the Bethesda store to see if the multiplayer works...and it does! It's funny how a free update to a game I already own on Steam still got me to fork over $20 in total between GOG and this, but it was worth it. I got to play co-op on my pc with a friend on his Switch, and made a few new friends and contacts just by jumping into random deathmatch games. The only downside is that both the Steam version and Bethesda version share the same config file. One of my biggest peeves is when programs create folders to store config and save files so far away from where they're installed. I assume the reason is to try and keep the same settings if I need to reinstall, but it just feels cluttered and is another thing I have to hunt for to edit, or to delete when reinstalling.

The reason is that's just how you are supposed to be treating applications in Windows. Since Windows 2000 it's been explicit that you don't write configuration files and such inside the application directory, as the directory it's stored in may very well not have write permissions for the user running it, and quite intentionally for various security reasons.

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2 hours ago, Edward850 said:

The reason is that's just how you are supposed to be treating applications in Windows. Since Windows 2000 it's been explicit that you don't write configuration files and such inside the application directory, as the directory it's stored in may very well not have write permissions for the user running it, and quite intentionally for various security reasons.

That make more sense, I've even encountered people having issues with certain programs not saving their settings because the folder didn't have write permissions enabled. That doesn't make it any less irritating having to hunt for config files, or have two different programs share the same config and save files, but suppose I'd rather be inconvenienced than have security be compromised.

Edited by Lippeth

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Well, just got done playing Realm of the Blacksmiths for the first time. Ich bin impressed. Seriously, the Acid Sanctuary has to be the most impressive level I've ever seen in Quake. Not that Fading Embers was a slouch by any means, but Acid Sanctuary was so impressive. Those windmills were beautiful. I mean, Arcane Dimensions had some amazing looking levels, but they were generally rather short and compact I noticed.

 

I'm assuming the sheer size of Acid Sanctuary is due to it using the Kex engine, instead of the original idtech engine though, so a direct comparison probably isn't fair. But still, the vast sprawling size of that level was amazing. And just the complexity of it being all done with Brushes is nothing short of amazing. And fighting in that building that was falling down was both disorienting, and a blast. So far Dimension of the Machine has really wowed me.  

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Arcane Dimensions has some epic maps, too, doesn't it? And it requires an advanced source port, too. Comparisons are fair! I think several AD versions had come out with their own fork of Quakespasm because the latest stable wasn't enough to handle the mod.

 

 

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1 hour ago, VGA said:

Arcane Dimensions has some epic maps, too, doesn't it? And it requires an advanced source port, too. Comparisons are fair! I think several AD versions had come out with their own fork of Quakespasm because the latest stable wasn't enough to handle the mod.

 

 

Oh most definitely. It has some absolutely beautiful maps that were, and are still stunning. And yes, it requires a limit removing source port. But I highly doubt, even with a limit removing source port, the base engine itself could handle what's going on in Acid Sanctuary or Fading Embers. It's kind of like Doom, and no matter how fast your computer is, the way the engine operates means that at a certain point it will slow down. 

 

And really what amazed me about it wasn't necessarily the size, so much as the complexity. I mean everything is packed full of decoration, there's no dull areas, and the interconnectedness of the whole level. I was just very, very impressed by it. My jaw damn near dropped as soon as I left the starting area... especially at dem windmills.

 

There's some videos of it on youtube, but if you have Quake and the remaster, I'd strongly suggest you play it yourself before watching a video.

 

Edit: You know what, I just realized I'm a fucking idiot. For some reason I wasn't separating the KEX based port from the new episodes. I do not know why, it's been a long day. But yeah, I just took the mg1 folder out of the Steam folder, dropped it in my Quake folder and ran it with Quake-Spasm Spiked, and it does run. Seems a bit choppier than with the port, but yeah it does run. 

 

Again, my bad. Horrible brainfart. I guess the actual complexity and amazing design is just a testament to Machine Games, and the port developers talent.

 

Alright, second edit: Maybe it does require the rerelease port. I'm getting constant messages in the console of CVAR_SET Variable Campaign Not Found. And whenever it's supposed to trigger the "secret" sound, it crashed to the console with the message "SVCDP_EFFECT[1:2] BUT EXTENSION NOT ACTIVE. So yeah, it's doing something in there that does require the port. Maybe I'm not quite as big of a fucking idiot as I thought. I'm gonna go watch some tv now.

Edited by Jello

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Earlier today, I saw the church from E4M1 of DOTM, I cried in joy and was simply amazed at how detailed it was. Same thing for the buildings in E5M1 of DOTM too.

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1 hour ago, FireballCaco said:

Earlier today, I saw the church from E4M1 of DOTM, I cried in joy and was simply amazed at how detailed it was. Same thing for the buildings in E5M1 of DOTM too.

I can't wait to get there. I'm just about to start episode three now. Thought I should take a break from Quake for a bit though, been playing it quite a bit today.

 

Oh, and @Edward850, I did find a bug today. I'm not sure if it's been caught yet or not, so I figured I'd let you know. It seems like if you quicksave while moving, and release the move key just after you press F5, almost simultaneously, you'll continue moving in that direction after it saves. Seems to do it with all movement keys, forward/back/left/right. Pressing that key again seems to stop it.

 

I just thought it was kind of weird and wanted to let you know in case it hadn't been brought up before. Really, really digging the engine and the new expansions though. Great job, all of you. I'm not sure why it felt off the first time I played it, but either something was off in my settings, or my brain was just off, but it feels great now.

Edited by Jello

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On a somewhat related note, now that we have remastered DOOM and Quake ports, do you think there's a chance for an enhanced Wolf 3D port in the same vein as these two? Wolf 3D is gonna be 30 next year...

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With this Quake Remaster being released, I wonder if this means there will eventually be a Quake 2 Remaster. That would be amazing. I miss those old days of playing LAN games with my brother against bots in Quake 2.

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