The War

fodders said:

How precise is the word precise in your book?

99.933% good hits is pretty precise in my book!

Shaviro said:

They believe Saddam and his regime supports terrorist cells. 9/11.

Yes but that is total bollox, there is no evidence to link Saddam to 9/11 not even Bush would try that link, the only try the American regime made was to link an obscure al-Qaeda group in northern Iraq to Saddam even though...
1)Saddam has no control over the northern Iraq because of the illegal no-fly zone
2)al-Qaeda and Saddam's secular state are like Democrats and Republicans they are opposites.
c)bin Laden made an offer to the Saudi rulers to take a force into Kuwait when Saddam invaded and kick him out, rather than allow the infidels to put a base on Saudi soil

I could see why Saddam would want to support terrorcells!

Shaviro said:

I could see why Saddam would want to support terrorcells!

I could name many terror cells America supported if you want to get into that arguement! Saddam's Ba'ath party being ONE! Usama bin Laden being another!

fodders said:

I could name many terror cells America supported if you want to get into that arguement! Saddam's Ba'ath party being ONE! Usama bin Laden being another!

Well at the time they wernt terroits.But over time people change.We cant see what going to happen in the years to come.

wow... i've just got home and finally got to see some war coverage... it seems to me we're handling this war perfectly.. get rid of the government and let things fall apart naturally. i think shaviro's point that we attacked NAZI GERMANY before they attacked us is a great one. like hitler, saddam has killed many of his own people... sure he was actually attacking other countries, but there was no UN in those times, we had no reason to preemptively strike Germany. should we have just let germany take control of europe? japan was what got us into the war, and germany did declare war on us.. but since they weren't actively attacking us, maybe we should have tried to find a diplomatic solution? seems to me that we did the right thing there.. i'd like to see france argue we shouldn't have attacked preemptively in that case.

and i can't see how anyone can argue with how we're handling the war... i heard people talking about how we're going to kill tons of iraqi citizens.. it hardly looks that way to me. we're taking out the government and letting everything else fall out from under it, offering surrender to anyone who wants it. i just really have to like how we're handling this so far.

fodders said:

Tell that to the little 5 year old boy with shrapnel in his head.It sure was "surgical" to remove the lump of metal from his brain today!

I know that little crying baby's on tv are always something that makes people opinions turn around. That is exactly why the Iraqi government is probably using little baby's as actors in this phase of the war. Some of them might already be sick and have got bandages on them just to make them look like they have been wounded by shrapnel. I'm not saying that all of the wounded people on tv are fake, but some of them probably are. And lot's of people are vulnerable to change opinions when it comes to little helpless baby's, and that is exactly why the Iraqi government might use them against us.

Please know that when you're watching footage from Iraqi TV it might be faked, just as US TV.

About 400 wounded civilians in Baghdad thus far.

Fredrik said:

About 400 wounded civilians in Baghdad thus far.

And the source is?

Word on the web is an American soldier decided to drop two grenades in his own camp's HQ.

I know for a fact that this man will be crucified by the media, and I don't have an opinion on what he did, but I want to ask you armchair-fucking intellectuals: is this fragger a hero or a villain?

He's the doomguy. You tell me.

IMJack said:

Word on the web is an American soldier decided to drop two grenades in his own camp's HQ.

I know for a fact that this man will be crucified by the media, and I don't have an opinion on what he did, but I want to ask you armchair-fucking intellectuals: is this fragger a hero or a villain?

That depends on the reason why he decided to do this. If his fellow soldiers did horrible things then I can understand this. I've heard the same thing on CNN this night by the way. It seems that a US soldier snapped..

IMJack said:

is this fragger a hero or a villain?

Heh. Random acts of stupidity are applauded by this fucking-armchair retard.

Disorder said:

And the source is?

Swedish newspaper.

Fredrik said:

Swedish newspaper.

News... pa... per...?

Is that a relic from the "dead tree" era of information? (j/k)

I'd like to inform you all that I'm now without TV for a week, so this will be my only source for news. :D

the_Danarchist said:

I'd like to inform you all that I'm now without TV for a week, so this will be my only source for news. :D

Fuck TV. Fark is following feeds from a dozen different international newspapers.

heh, it amuses me how the major pakistani paper's top story yesterday said that the united states dropped nuclear bombs on baghdad, and are using chemical weapons all over the place, killing everyone in sight. it also has a doctored picture of bush as a vampire. sometimes newspapers aren't the best source for news :P

400 wounded? i haven't heard about that.. you'd have to wonder which side wounded them... iraq in the past has used civilians as human shields.. more civilian dead == more anti-american propoganda in saddam's eye. in a case like this it's hard to jump to conclusions about who's done what.

IMJack said:

Fuck TV. Fark is following feeds from a dozen different international newspapers.

Mmm...links to Reuters raw video. Nice.

hmm American info on American troops gets to Americans faster ^^

What I’ve heard is that this soldier has had trouble fallowing orders; he pretended to pass out refused to carry his backpack all round he was generally a pussy. A group of military head bangers (lord knows there rank and such) decided to ship him home but his commander decided to try and keep him.

The two tents this man targeted were supposed to be inhabited by his commander instead it was the regulars, this is one dead guy is as far as I’m going to say.

wow... i've just got home and finally got to see some war coverage... it seems to me we're handling this war perfectly.. get rid of the government and let things fall apart naturally. i think shaviro's point that we attacked NAZI GERMANY before they attacked us is a great one. like hitler, saddam has killed many of his own people... sure he was actually attacking other countries, but there was no UN in those times, we had no reason to preemptively strike Germany. should we have just let germany take control of europe? japan was what got us into the war, and germany did declare war on us.. but since they weren't actively attacking us, maybe we should have tried to find a diplomatic solution? seems to me that we did the right thing there.. i'd like to see france argue we shouldn't have attacked preemptively in that case.

and i can't see how anyone can argue with how we're handling the war... i heard people talking about how we're going to kill tons of iraqi citizens.. it hardly looks that way to me. we're taking out the government and letting everything else fall out from under it, offering surrender to anyone who wants it. i just really have to like how we're handling this so far.

You are 100 percent on world and on a side note i'd like it to be known that a page later noone has argued with this 'perfect' arguement yet.

PS: that 400 wounded is bullshit, pardon my language but I’ve already bore witness to all these other countries with there government trying as hard as they can to make America look bad.

Black Hand said:

PS: that 400 wounded is bullshit, pardon my language but I’ve already bore witness to all these other countries with there government trying as hard as they can to make America look bad.

well you shouldn't say that for certain unless you've actually looked it up... that does seem like a ridicously high number when you look at how carefully we're executing this war.. but don't refute information unless you have information to do. it seems to me that if that number is right, then i still doubt that most of those injuries were inflicted by american soldiers.

If no one provides the information as to why i should believe such garbage I don’t have to provide any reasoning for not believing it.

Rotting Corpse said:

Well at the time they wernt terroits.But over time people change.We cant see what going to happen in the years to come.

thats not true, Usama bin Laden's networks were organized by Pakistan Britian and the U$A to attack and TERRORIZE Russia's invasion of Afganistan. Saddam's MOST brutal crimes were commited with OUR SUPPORT. Practically 95% of the active terrorist cells in the world have ties to the US (particularly Reagan's administration) and were organized with terrorism in mind

The US has also indirectly funded, trained and supplied weapons to many brutal regimes MUCH WORSE than Iraq, the most obvious one being Siddharto's Indoneisia.

and the guy who fragged his own fellow oppressors deserves a fucking medal for standing up for human rights

Black Hand said:

i think shaviro's point that we attacked NAZI GERMANY before they attacked us is a great one. like hitler, saddam has killed many of his own people... sure he was actually attacking other countries, but there was no UN in those times, we had no reason to preemptively strike Germany. should we have just let germany take control of europe? japan was what got us into the war, and germany did declare war on us.. but since they weren't actively attacking us, maybe we should have tried to find a diplomatic solution?

the irony of this post is how much AMERICA DESPERATLEY AVOIDED WAR WITH THE NAZIS. America had been in LOVE with Hitler ever since the 30's, supporing him with funding, appeasment and inaction to force Russia into more trouble. Keg parties were thrown at colledges when Paris fell. America has never particularly been a fan of Jews or Communists.

Then During the War, america did about FIVE FUCKING PERCENT of the actual fighting against hitler, mostly just kiling innocent civilians in Dredsden (Bombs), France (Napalm), Hiroshima (nuclear bomb), Nagasaki(Nuclear bomb, again). Almost All of the actual fighting and liberation of germany was done by Communists. (and you dont even want to get into what we did to "liberate" Spain Greece and Italy)

Then, After the war America HELPED Nazis escape to Argentina, Chile and Brazil, and 30 years later helped put Neo-Nazi governments in power. To this day we refuse to extrdite known SS officers and Capguards

Its absurd to compare Saddam to Hitler, but then again it really isnt...

Both are brutal and vicous dictators that the US Supported Enthusiastically

Both times the US entered into conflict with them we diliberatly inflicted massive civillian casualties

Both times we will be seen as "liberators" in the History books

Black Hand said:

If no one provides the information as to why i should believe such garbage I don’t have to provide any reasoning for not believing it.

and yet you follow everybody else in beleiving Saddam housein has Weapons of mass destruction and is a threat to AMerica?

I swear to god if i had a penny for every example of extreme hipocrisy shown by the pro-war hawks id have enough money to bail America out of this economic recession...

Wobbo said:

and yet you follow everybody else in beleiving Saddam housein has Weapons of mass destruction and is a threat to AMerica?

I swear to god if i had a penny for every example of extreme hipocrisy shown by the pro-war hawks id have enough money to bail America out of this economic recession...

no i don't, my only concern is that hes killed 2 milleon people and he is going to suffer for that.

Wobbo said:

the irony of this post is how much AMERICA DESPERATLEY AVOIDED WAR WITH THE NAZIS. America had been in LOVE with Hitler ever since the 30's, supporing him with funding, appeasment and inaction to force Russia into more trouble. Keg parties were thrown at colledges when Paris fell. America has never particularly been a fan of Jews or Communists.

Then During the War, america did about FIVE FUCKING PERCENT of the actual fighting against hitler, mostly just kiling innocent civilians in Dredsden (Bombs), France (Napalm), Hiroshima (nuclear bomb), Nagasaki(Nuclear bomb, again). Almost All of the actual fighting and liberation of germany was done by Communists. (and you dont even want to get into what we did to "liberate" Spain Greece and Italy)

Then, After the war America HELPED Nazis escape to Argentina, Chile and Brazil, and 30 years later helped put Neo-Nazi governments in power. To this day we refuse to extrdite known SS officers and Capguards

Wobbo, that´s all correct, and it gets even more worse: US bombers spared out the Ford factories in Cologne (30 minutes away from me) with the same precession they claim today for the usage of their bombs. The US government valued the property of Henry Ford higher than the lives of their own soldiers who were killed by the "Tiger II" battletanks that were built in the Ford factories in cologne.

US in WWII and today = Only ruled by economical aspects.

Americans bleating about people supporting terrorists makes me piss when I think of all the SUPPORT the American gov and people gave to the terror cells of the IRA to bomb innocent people in Ireland and England.
On another note the soldier that did the grenade attack on his command tent was Muslim.
And American Patriot missiles down a BRITISH plane :P Way to go guys!

Whenever people discuss topics like these, is it an inclination to go towards the extremes? Other forums support American vehemently and I try to show them otherwise. This forum is unique in that sense that it supports "anti-war" so to speak. However, on both forums nothing good as been voiced over what they denounce. That is; Pro war see absolutely no fucking reason to believe that war isn't justified, they see Saddam as a devil incarnate and do believe whatever they see on the media. They love Bush's balls(or lack of), believe that Iraq do have ties to Al-Qeada and not surprisingly show annoyance over the torching of oil wells....
On the other hand, we got the anti-war people who do nothing but see wrong in what USA is and what its allies are doing. For example, they highlight the implications of "collateral damage" without failing to see that Saddam has deliberatly installed military outposts and personnel in civilian buildings, such as "hospitals" and "schools". Personally, I am extremely against this war and what USA are doing, but I do believe we can be objective in this situation and not be inclined to adopt extreme views. After all, in every good there is evil and in every evil a good.

So lets discuss what IS good about this war...

Honestly, after that bullshit rant, I CANT THINK OF ANYTHING!

This "We are removing a tyrant, we are freeing the Iraqi people" talk is bullshit, it was only a week or so ago when Powell said quite clearly "If Saddam gets rid of his weapons he can stay in power", America was quite happy to let him continue in whatever mayhem and torture he can inflict on his subjects, America has no care for how he treats his people or they wouldn't have offered to let him stay in power, the same with Afghanistan, the only reason Afghanistan was bombed was because the Taliban wouldn't give bin Laden up. If they had, the Taliban regime would still be in power today.

It seems a coalition pilot has ejected and landed in the Tigris river in the centre of Baghdad. Iraqi soldiers were seen live on CNN tv shooting at parts of the river..