Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
Csucskos

The Descent - Second slaughterish map (Beta build)

Recommended Posts

So what is this?

This is my second map, Map02 of the Lair of Evil wad. Made for decino's map contest so the time is short. I post this here to get some feedback on the gameplay, texturing is none because I want to get the map right before sinking a ton of work in detailing.

 

What to expect?

The first map was focused on interesting fights this one is focused on believable architecture and the fights are only secondary. There are big slaughters though and it's quite overtuned and unfair. Save often. I guess it's 20-30 minutes, I don't know yet. There are a few empty areas, any idea what to do there is welcomed but not necessary.

 

Please comment on every softlock or too unfair fight/low ammount of ammo. I want to make the map hard, but not impossible. Currently only UV is implemented will tone down for other difficulties.

 

How to play?

It was tested in GZDoom, made in Hexen format so plan accordingly. Here are some pictures but again, look was not in mind so don't comment on that.

Spoiler

Desc1.png.1c163bbc2824a27da2874fbed7e2e805.png

Desc2.png.763539f16440387f9c7803fc54152184.png

 

It's Map 02.

 

Good luck!

 

Update 2021.12.16 - Fully textured, some areas will probably be reworked, but otherwise map is operational.

 

 

The Descent.zip

Edited by Csucskos : Updated the textures

Share this post


Link to post

I'd suggest you to give "us" a more completed map to test.

To me it looks kinda pointless to play cause there wouldn't be much to say other than "finish it", especially if you say that this is meant to be focused on architecture.

Can't really see the point.

Come on, even doors are not textured!

Share this post


Link to post
4 hours ago, Kan3 said:

Come on, even doors are not textured!

Thank you for the review. I though specifically pointed out please not to comment only on the texture, thanks for reading.

architecture = construction of buildings. Yeah, so I meant the layout making sense. The map is perfectly playable, the fights are there if you can look past the monotone textures. It'll most likely be some kind of brown/grey rock all around so I'd say it's good enough.

 

But thanks anyways.

Share this post


Link to post
3 hours ago, Csucskos said:

architecture = construction of buildings.

In a quite flat old game like doom, the architecture definitely comprehends textures too, not to mention that even the architecture is bare bones.

3 hours ago, Csucskos said:

The map is perfectly playable, the fights are there if you can look past the monotone textures.

And the fights comprehend the ambient. Killing demons in a maze of rooms, with "no" doors or anything else other then the same texture, makes everything unenjoyable. It's hard to navigate and therefore hard to find pickups, hard to understand where I'm going and how to move to have a proper fight.

Quote

thanks for reading

If you're willing to let your map be tested by other players, make the map at least navigable, we are talking about a door texture, not 

Quote

sinking a ton of work in detailing.

 

Share this post


Link to post
18 minutes ago, Kan3 said:

maze of rooms

18 minutes ago, Kan3 said:

we are talking about a door texture

Where did you get lost because of the doors?

 

(I'm dead serious, I don't know what are you referring to and I don't think texture will change it so it may need a redesign)

Share this post


Link to post
22 minutes ago, Dubbag said:

 

Love it!

 

I see, people are put off by the lack of textures... a lot. I promise it's playable, you haven't seen the fraction of it. (That Cyber area is completely optional. ~ that's the reason that door is in the few things I textured - skull = death, so let's not go there.)

 

Anyways I'm in a squeeze right now so wanted to get the ball rolling on the fights, not counted for the amount of backlash STARTAN can have :D

 

But thanks! (You should not be able to get past that Baron so already gained some knowledge.)

Share this post


Link to post

Updated the textures so go wild. But I got emotionally invested because of this so too late to comment :D So just have fun.

Share this post


Link to post

For a map called The Descent, using a Descent 1 MIDI you'd think that this map would have plenty of verticality, but it's really flat.

Why not make it an industrial/ space-themed map too while at it?

Share this post


Link to post
13 minutes ago, rzh said:

For a map called The Descent, using a Descent 1 MIDI you'd think that this map would have plenty of verticality, but it's really flat.

Yeah, it was the other way around actually. The map is the continuation of my first map and in that you descend into the depths of the monsters' lair. And thus the name was a given and I thought wouldn't it be funny if I ripped the Descend music for it. (It's not a midi though.)

 

Other thoughts?

Share this post


Link to post
11 minutes ago, Csucskos said:

Yeah, it was the other way around actually. The map is the continuation of my first map and in that you descend into the depths of the monsters' lair. And thus the name was a given and I thought wouldn't it be funny if I ripped the Descend music for it. (It's not a midi though.)

 

Other thoughts?

Different monsters types interact way too rarely, making most fights feel boring and grindy.

The room with the imps has an archvile, but that's about it for the beginning of the map.

The revenants are tucked away in a room, so they can't put pressure on you.

You also have no incentive to go forward or any clear path of progression.

The branching paths in the beginning for instance, they should loop around or end up leading to different points of the same room.

There's also lots of cramped spaces which means that there's nothing "eye-catchy". In cases like this I try to sprinkle things around (I only have one unreleased map atm, in which I use health bonuses to attract the player to a corner that they might not go to normally in order to pick up some armor and trigger an ambush) to make sure the player has a reason to go to that part of the map/ follow that path.

Share this post


Link to post
12 minutes ago, rzh said:

You also have no incentive to go forward or any clear path of progression.

My idea was to let the player choose where to go. There's always a cost though. So yeah, you don't have to fight the revenants but they have the rocket launcher. Same with the SSG at the beginning. And there's obviously no clear paths. You are in enemy terratory. You don't know where to go. And by the way the whole map is a Choose Your Own Adventure. You only need 2 keys but there are 3 on the map.

Share this post


Link to post

Hmm. I feel like I have so much to say about this, but at the same time nothing at all. There's a lot of open space here, and as a theme of the map, I really didn't mind it. If it were textured to look like some abandoned base, I even think it would be pretty good. The lightning textures on the wall near the start definitely made me think back to the energy charging sections in Descent!

 

From a gameplay perspective, when you leave the player free to choose where to go, you need to ensure that they have sufficient weapons to be able to handle what's in front of them. Normally I dislike it when multiple instances of the same weapon are placed in a map, but in non-linear maps, it's almost a necessity, especially in this map where you're frequently encountering mid-tier enemies. For example, I didn't find the SSG before the first Imp/Demon wave, and that was tedious to deal with. I was unclear as to where I was going a lot of the time, which felt a little problematic on a map this large. I also wasn't sure if the "prison sections", for lack of a better term, accomplished anything. What turned out to be the fight at the exit was extremely chaotic relative to the rest of the map, and I kinda cheesed it to get the map completed.

 

For such a large map, I do think the textures need to be more interesting than what they are because you're looking at a lot of space. I did enjoy this more than I thought I was going to though.

Share this post


Link to post
16 hours ago, Degree23 said:

The lightning textures on the wall near the start definitely made me think back to the energy charging sections in Descent!

I'm happy to hear that, but I had no intention to do that. As I stated I only named the map so, because it made sense. But then realized how funny would it be to also have the Descent music.

 

16 hours ago, Degree23 said:

From a gameplay perspective, when you leave the player free to choose where to go, you need to ensure that they have sufficient weapons to be able to handle what's in front of them.

I'd really like to know what was your exact route (though I have a feeling you went imp->hell knight->human->fell down-> and ended it). The imp/pinky room was tested without SSG so it should be possible. Although I understand what you are saying, I have to think about how to balance it. On one hand I want to make it difficult, but not grindy and on the other hand I want it so even with better guns it's not trivial.

 

16 hours ago, Degree23 said:

I also wasn't sure if the "prison sections", for lack of a better term, accomplished anything.

Hmmm, if I understand right the space is to small so you just shot everyone through the fences?

 

16 hours ago, Degree23 said:

What turned out to be the fight at the exit was extremely chaotic relative to the rest of the map, and I kinda cheesed it to get the map completed.

I'm sure the route you took was the hardest because you had both hell knights and everything else. On the other two you do not have the brown barons :D But I don't know how to solve that... Maybe give a BFG?... hmmm

 

16 hours ago, Degree23 said:

I was unclear as to where I was going a lot of the time

Where? Looking at the map most of the time there's only one way to go. Yes, for example in the human base you have the rooms, but that's a quite short deadend. The only place I can think of is the arch-vile office. That's not too obvious... Or the exit of the "pit". OK. I see...

16 hours ago, Degree23 said:

For such a large map, I do think the textures need to be more interesting than what they are because you're looking at a lot of space.

 

16 hours ago, Degree23 said:

There's a lot of open space here, and as a theme of the map, I really didn't mind it.

That's quite bad, because I wanted to make a lively base for the baddies and not an abandoned one. But as I played out the routes in my mind you are right, there are a lot of unused space. I just don't know how to make it believably full without just spamming everything everywhere. (Not talking about the straight tunnels, I want to make extra rooms there just not sure what exactly.) And OK, more detailes will be added. (Others mentioned elevation changes, but than I have to adjust everything so I'm not to keen on doing that.)

Thank you very much! I'm happy to hear you enjoyed it and thank you for the advice!

Share this post


Link to post

Hey! Keep in mind that I am quite bad at doom, and mapping, and I play most of my games on Hurt me Plenty difficulty.

1) Lot of empty rooms.
2) Level Geometry let's you pretty much bypass some monsters without needing to fire more than once for pushback.  I like tight corners fighting, but in this map, the choke points are just way too narrow. 

3) I didn't complete the map because I found it frustrating to deal with the ammunition. However, I will send you a recording of my gameplay, maybe you can make use of it. 

 

It needs a lot more refining, not just details, but also fights and passage ways. I could bypass barons and cheese the first big fight quite a bit. I still ended up running out of ammunition, because I missed a lot of shots. All the advice given above still applies to your map, including texturing. However, I would first take a stab at gameplay. 

You have some good ideas. The cavern would look more cavernous if it had say some steps or rockfalls or something similar. The big atrium was one of the 2 highlights.

 

The second was the possibility of cheesing the Imp-Archvile fight, but it would require better movement than I am capable of doing.

Share this post


Link to post
12 minutes ago, DarkIceCyclone said:

1) Lot of empty rooms.
2) Level Geometry let's you pretty much bypass some monsters without needing to fire more than once for pushback.  I like tight corners fighting, but in this map, the choke points are just way too narrow.  

3) I didn't complete the map because I found it frustrating to deal with the ammunition. However, I will send you a recording of my gameplay, maybe you can make use of it.  

No difficulty setting had been implemented so far so you played on UV :D

1) I know.

2) ??? What do you mean? I suppose you fell down at the beginning and just ran past everything? I'd say that's intended. If you don't wanna fight someone I will let you do that. I've been informed about a couple bypasses but I don't mind. My first map was extremely restrictive always locking you in arenas so I thought, let's change it up and give the player the choice not to fight.

3) I still don't know how you ran out of ammo, you should have been able to replenish in quite a few places. I'll take a look at your recording and add ammo accordingly.

 

Thanks for playing and for the recording, it's a huge help. I suggest you take a look at the other route if you want to experience more of the map.

Share this post


Link to post
7 minutes ago, Csucskos said:

No difficulty setting had been implemented so far so you played on UV :D

1) I know.

2) ??? What do you mean? I suppose you fell down at the beginning and just ran past everything? I'd say that's intended. If you don't wanna fight someone I will let you do that. I've been informed about a couple bypasses but I don't mind. My first map was extremely restrictive always locking you in arenas so I thought, let's change it up and give the player the choice not to fight.

3) I still don't know how you ran out of ammo, you should have been able to replenish in quite a few places. I'll take a look at your recording and add ammo accordingly.

 

Thanks for playing and for the recording, it's a huge help. I suggest you take a look at the other route if you want to experience more of the map.

2) Answered in mail but I'll answeer here as well:

When I grabbed the SSG, I just skipped the baron and hell knights completely

When I initiated the imp-pinky fight, I just ran past them a couple of times until they were all killed.I still shot one way too many shots.

When I returned to SSG area, i let the baron and hell knight hit each other a couple of times. Potential cheese there if you have enough patience

I didn't complete the cathedral fight and beyond that, but there is potential to release the revenants while imps are still inside, causing the revenants and imps to infight. The problem is, it's down to whether you get stuck by level geometry or monsters.

3) it may be that ammunition wasn't the issue, but actually finding them was.

 

Keep in mind, my feedback is iffy at best, since I suck. like suck suck. 

Share this post


Link to post

I see. I watched the video, it's very helpful. (Now I see where they are getting stuck also I discovered a few missing textures.)

 

I did not think the lighting would be an issue, will try to do something about it to keep it moody but not unplayable with on every setting.

 

Yes, you chose both paths and thus wasted your ammo. Now I see it's extremely unclear that you have to push 3 different buttons in order to leave the pinky/imp room. I'll light them up.

 

You "sucking" is not a thing. A good map should satisfy everyone with every skill level. I'm just tired of everyone playing on UV by default I feel like every other difficulty is useless. So I try to make UV almost impossible so people play on lower settings too. (As I said, this has not been implemented yet.)

 

Barons and hell knights do not infight and can't damage eachother. (At least by default. Only their melee can hurt eachother and they can infight with some funky barrel setup but no, 99% of the time they do not deal damage to eachother.)

Share this post


Link to post
7 minutes ago, Csucskos said:

I see. I watched the video, it's very helpful. (Now I see where they are getting stuck also I discovered a few missing textures.)

 

I did not think the lighting would be an issue, will try to do something about it to keep it moody but not unplayable with on every setting.

 

Yes, you chose both paths and thus wasted your ammo. Now I see it's extremely unclear that you have to push 3 different buttons in order to leave the pinky/imp room. I'll light them up.

 

You "sucking" is not a thing. A good map should satisfy everyone with every skill level. I'm just tired of everyone playing on UV by default I feel like every other difficulty is useless. So I try to make UV almost impossible so people play on lower settings too. (As I said, this has not been implemented yet.)

 

Barons and hell knights do not infight and can't damage eachother. (At least by default. Only their melee can hurt eachother and they can infight with some funky barrel setup but no, 99% of the time they do not deal damage to eachother.)

trick is getting the baron to try and shoot the fireball and instead ending up scratching the hell night. I didn't manage to get it to work though... probably because it's not how it works lol

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×