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Johnatone

More Violence (Again)

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Currently I'm writing a persuasive speech to present to my class. My topic is: "Why Popular Violent Culture Does Not Cause People To Be Violent."

Before I go into my diatribe, I'm going to ask for some numbers. First, On any given day, how many people in our world play Doom and/or any other violent videogame (including kiddie violence like Super Mario Bros.), Second, How many people on any given day in the world are associated with all forms of violent media, and Third, How many school shootings in America have actually occured?

Diatribe:
Now, I don't believe that violent culture affects people, or at least affects them significantly. It is human nature to be violent, spawning from Darwin's Theory of Evolution (It's all about survival man! It's all about me! :)). The majority of people I meet who are into violent media (and I'm talking all media) are actually normal people living normal lives (look at Karthik for example). People say violent culture desensitizes people. I could desensitize somebody by isolating them from the world and raising them the way society tells me to, then on their eighteenth birthday releasing them to the world. They then would be screwed because they'd be victimized within a year because the world is a dark and dangerous place, with cheaters, murderes, haters, robbers, et cetera. No, I think that violence such as the Columbine High shooting (four years ago Easter Sunday*) spawn from social issues and disagreements. People are only equal if everyone follows the same whatever (line, road, way of life, et cetera. insert parallel here). People are always at odds with each other, and because of this constant conflict violence occurs.

Now I need your opinions, and your answers to my first three questions. I'll check back here later. Oh yeah, check out this link from another forum I found browsing ]Google.

*I don't know how you're going to celebrate it. I'm probably gonna foget about it and not remember til a week later.

sorry if any of this sounds rushed, and sorry that i broke character and used capitals.

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That's interesting, let us how what is was like. I recently wrote an essay on gaming and violence. It's not written in English so you guys won't be interested but I got the result back today and I got the highest possible score (insufficient, sufficient, good!).

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There were two shootings in schools in Louisiana just yesterday. One was accidental and totally bone-headed, the other committed by kids who didn't go to that school. Only one fatality and about four wounded between the two shootings.

As for the fourth anniversary of Columbine? I have to write my annual "Don't blame the games" rant for the obligitory media crush.

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IMJack said:

As for the fourth anniversary of Columbine? I have to write my annual "Don't blame the games" rant for the obligitory media crush.

My essay was basically a very serious nineteen page rant defending the game industry too.

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Violence and non-violence have always fascinated me. There are many many facets involved: philosophical, political, social, emotional, pseudo-rational etc.
Though history the brightest and wisest minds (Plato, Gandhi, Marx, Einstein et al.) have tried to formulate a protocol for it.

I'll try to stick to the topic...

In the current war we see America soldiers being portrait as good-guys and Saddam loyalists as bad-guys. The good-guys all have families and a history but the bad-guys are face-less monsters. We are thaught to think in black and white.
Governments and media create a fictional world and pretent it be factual. Such conditioning is not only tolerated but stimulated in times of crisis.

Movies, games and book sketch a similair simplistic world in which good and evil are clearly distinguishable. Games provide a fictional world BUT make no pretence to be factual. Such entertainment is questioned and criticized in times of crisis.

On the same day Clinton held a speech on Columbine (calling children to solve their problems with words instead of bullits) he ordered a intensification of the bombing in Kosovo.

It are not the games that are dangerous. It are not the games that sustain the lie of justifiable violence. It are the culture and politics of our nations...

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Well, my take on the issue has always been something like this:

Some people simply have a greater tendency to violence, for whatever reason.

Could violent entertainment encourage a person already prone to violence, to commit a violent act?
I suppose it's possible.

Could violent entertainment cause a non-violent person to become violent?
I think not, this seems ridiculous to me. A healthy person will realize the fictitiousness of the entertainment, or will simply be disgusted by the entertainment and not view/play it.

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IMJack said:

As for the fourth anniversary of Columbine? I have to write my annual "Don't blame the games" rant for the obligitory media crush.


Hey, i was gonna do that! That's how I "celebrate" 4/20...

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I place the blame soley on the parents. All serial killers have been put through some sort of psychological background scan, and all have been found to have been horrible abused as children. People that commit these shootings/massacres are only slightly different, and at least in the case of Harris and Klebold they were pretty much abandonned during their childhood.

And of course you could probably link this all back to society.

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the_Danarchist said:

I place the blame soley on the parents. All serial killers have been put through some sort of psychological background scan, and all have been found to have been horrible abused as children. People that commit these shootings/massacres are only slightly different, and at least in the case of Harris and Klebold they were pretty much abandonned during their childhood.

And of course you could probably link this all back to society.


IMO, I'd also put the blame on the tormentors who made the shooters pissed off in the first place...

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as glenn burton once said, "blame it on god."

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Lizardcommando said:

IMO, I'd also put the blame on the tormentors who made the shooters pissed off in the first place...

Correct. The bullies ended up being targeted themselves a lot, although in Columbine I believe Eric and Dylan's hatred was directed at random. They probably hated everyone.

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the trenchcoat mafia wasn't as bad as the media made them out to be. if you look around you'll find that it was just a group of friends, and that neither eric nor dylan were greatly involved in it. i dunno, but i guess after awhile they just snapped.

the_Danarchist said:

I place the blame soley on the parents. All serial killers have been put through some sort of psychological background scan, and all have been found to have been horrible abused as children.

i don't know how true that is. and school shooters aren't "serial killers", they generally are killing randomly. there's no pattern. and in the most local of these shootings to me, the thurston shootings of a while back, 4 people were killed. 2 of them were kip kinkel's parents, both of whom were teachers although killed in their home. the parents of some of the kids dead wouldn't allow the parents names to be marked on the memorial. obviously, parents should be involved enough to know when their kids are whackjobs. kip kinkel's dad actually supplied his son with some of the weapons used in the shootings.

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Disorder said:

Correct. The bullies ended up being targeted themselves a lot, although in Columbine I believe Eric and Dylan's hatred was directed at random. They probably hated everyone.


did their bombs kill anyone? it's kinda hard to direct homemade timer bombs. although i agree they probably hated everyone. heh, i hate everyone at my school as well (but i ain't gonna do nothin').

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sargebaldy said:

and in the most local of these shootings to me, the thurston shootings of a while back, 4 people were killed. 2 of them were kip kinkel's parents, both of whom were teachers although killed in their home.

Yeah, the Kip Kinkel case was odd. He was some preppy striaght-A student who just kind of went crazy one day and went on a shooting spree.

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monochrome said:

did their bombs kill anyone? it's kinda hard to direct homemade timer bombs. although i agree they probably hated everyone. heh, i hate everyone at my school as well (but i ain't gonna do nothin').

No, they failed to explode due to faulty wiring. A police report stated that the bombs were made in a clumsy way.

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I believe that violence in games/television/literature can push a mentally disturbed person over the edge; but I don't believe those things can change a 'normal' person to a mentally disturbed one. Games are certainly not the cause of school shootings, but they can be one of the factors.

But taking that as a reason to ban violence in games, or blame game developers for school shootings, is of course fucking ridiculous.

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monochrome said:

did their bombs kill anyone? it's kinda hard to direct homemade timer bombs. although i agree they probably hated everyone. heh, i hate everyone at my school as well (but i ain't gonna do nothin').


Nope. None of the bombs blew up because they could get the damn wires set up correctly... Ha! Idiots.... Oh wait, that woulda been worse... :/ :p

Oh oops, someone answered that already... I wouldn't be able to go on a killing spree anyways... No money to buy guns or ammo or kevlar vests... Also, even if I did, I wouldn't go on a killing spree, I'd use the stuff to protect most of the people at school, I'd just shoot the mad killer(s).

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I feel it is stupid to blame videogames for murder. It's so easy for some sick weirdo to say that videogames caused him to kill a bunch of innocents, but if you think about all the people who play Doom, and sch, and don't kill, it proves that wrong. Normal people don't kill, and most people who play Doom are normal. You don't see people blaming boxing for fights in schools.

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Lord FlatHead said:
I believe that violence in games/television/literature can push a mentally disturbed person over the edge; but I don't believe those things can change a 'normal' person to a mentally disturbed one. Games are certainly not the cause of school shootings, but they can be one of the factors.

But taking that as a reason to ban violence in games, or blame game developers for school shootings, is of course fucking ridiculous.


Well, heck, if anyone is silly enough to try and use the odd rampage as an excuse to ban games, you can use exactly the same logic and declare "religion insights violence!!" It is, of course, utterly ridiculous. But just as true.

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Ct_red_pants said:

Well, heck, if anyone is silly enough to try and use the odd rampage as an excuse to ban games, you can use exactly the same logic and declare "religion insights violence!!" It is, of course, utterly ridiculous. But just as true.


as far as i can tell, EVERYTHING has the capability to incite violence. which is fantastic.

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