TNT 2: Devilution (Final beta released)

@Marcaek Why TNT: Devilution is TNT 2? The first sequel to TNT: Evilution was TNT: Revilution, so your wad should be the third in the series, not the second. And if Devilution is TNT 2, then Revilution is what - TNT 2-A or something? I'm confused.

1 minute ago, BohdanZPM said:

@Marcaek Why TNT: Devilution is TNT 2? The first sequel to TNT: Evilution was TNT: Revilution, so your wad should be the third in the series, not the second. And if Devilution is TNT 2, then Revilution is what - TNT 2-A or something? I'm confused.

"TNT: Revilution is a 32-level megawad and unofficial sequel to Final Doom's TNT: Evilution, developed by members of the Doomworld forums and released in 2017. The project had a long and turbulent development dating back to 2009, where it was originally part of TNT 2: Devilution before becoming a separate project led Steve Muller (Kyka) in 2014."

From Doomwiki.org, basically: its complicated, but this was first. It released later, but was started before. On another note, this is an unofficial sequel, so you can make your own TNT2 if you'd like, and it would be just as valid.

2 minutes ago, BohdanZPM said:

Why TNT: Devilution is TNT 2? The first sequel to TNT: Evilution was TNT: Revilution, so your wad should be the third in the series, not the second. And if Devilution is TNT 2, then Revilution is what - TNT 2-A or something? I'm confused.

7 minutes ago, Egg Boy said:

From Doomwiki.org, basically: its complicated, but this was first. It released later, but was started before. On another note, this is an unofficial sequel, so you can make your own TNT2 if you'd like, and it would be just as valid.

So basically, these are parallel sequels, only being released in different times. It would probably be correct to treat them as equal descendants to TNT: Evilution. Just like Plutonia 2 and Plutonia: Revisited Community Project are equal descendants to The Plutonia Experiment. Am I right?

That's pretty much the idea yes. The stories of each wad also support the "equal descendants" idea too, for whatever story is worth in Doom wads. They're both immediate sequels to the original TNT Evilution: Revilution's story texts paraphrases and expands onto the Evilution end text, specifically about that mysterious blue light and what it means, and goes from there; Devilution starts you in a trippy recreation of the icon face with a pulsating blue light, then quickly teleports you to a recreation of the MAP30 final room of Evilution. From what I recall, someone in the past has also mentioned the TNT Forever would be yet another alternate sequel to Evilution. Each of the 3 wads basically ignores the others.

43 minutes ago, brick said:

That's pretty much the idea yes. The stories of each wad also support the "equal descendants" idea too, for whatever story is worth in Doom wads. They're both immediate sequels to the original TNT Evilution: Revilution's story texts paraphrases and expands onto the Evilution end text, specifically about that mysterious blue light and what it means, and goes from there; Devilution starts you in a trippy recreation of the icon face with a pulsating blue light, then quickly teleports you to a recreation of the MAP30 final room of Evilution. From what I recall, someone in the past has also mentioned the TNT Forever would be yet another alternate sequel to Evilution. Each of the 3 wads basically ignores the others.

I dont know which one is my favorite so far, i think i like Devilutions take on the story after Last Call. makes the blue light part of the end text feel more important than in Revilutions story. Interested to see what TNT Forever (Convilution) will do for this. Although, i do think Revilution had the better ending.

1 hour ago, Chainie said:

 

 

Damn "rejects" and "Good levels"? 
Nice jab at TNT: Revilution. 

There was a spacetime rupture and the TNT timeline was split. There will be a quantum convergence in the coming months.

Apparently, I just got an error message while playing MAP07 in vanilla that according to the wiki, shouldn't even be possible. I suggest perhaps trying some different nodebuilder settings as a fix.

R_Subsector: ss 0 with numss = 0

5 hours ago, Chainie said:

 

 

Beg to differ, revilution is a perfectly fine megawad, just as devilution is shaping up to be. 

I don't mind TNT Forever being all rejects and what not, I want to play it soon too.

A great mapset.

Though I don't think it reminds me personally, of TNT though.

Just completed the wad and I have to say I had a great time. Map30 in particular was very... surreal (that's the best word I could think of) and I really liked it. Much better that having yet another IoS map. Probably my 3rd favorite map after map20 and map15.

With that said, I did discover 2 minor issues in the map. First is this area shown in the screenshot (in SW renderer)

Same area in HW renderer

This area is very very dark. On software renderer, you can see the enemies (even if barely) so its not a problem there, but on hardware renderer you can't see enemies at all. I would suggest increasing the light level in this area so that those who prefer playing with HW renderer (whether due to performance reasons or otherwise) don't have to switch renderer for this.

The second (minor) issue is the "2 minutes to Devilution". I feel like the message should be made a bit more clear that you need to escape quickly. Since I wasn't aware of it, I was just taking my time and admiring the scenery of the ending areas until I suddenly got voodoo'ed. It took me a while to figure out what was happening because initially, I didn't notice the "2 mins to Devilution" message and was distracted by the 2 bovines. Only did I notice that on my 2nd visit to the area.

On 4/13/2022 at 9:24 AM, Tycitron said:

Actually while digging through the wad files trying to extract the (amazing) soundtrack to listen to, i stumbled upon this... thing. any explanation for this? i put the sprites together and im very curious on what this is supposed to be. 

  Reveal hidden contents

Im gonna guess it was a IOS boss of some kind. judging from the glowy spot in the center, and if it showed up at all in the beta i sure didnt see it, but if it is please inform me of where i might've missed it.

 

A kick-ass ceiling lamp is what this is

8 hours ago, Chainie said:

 

 

Convilution was the rejects from Revilution, i don't know if there really was an official release of that, but there was A release, somewhere somehow

Convilution is an old name for TNT Forever

13 hours ago, ViolentBeetle said:

A kick-ass ceiling lamp is what this is

Damn i want one!

More feedback - once again on HNTR.

MAP05: I felt like the revenant on the ledge (thing 92) was a bit much on easy, as I was already dealing with a crowd of imps on the staircase while being careful to dodge rockets.

The lines on sector 286 should block monsters, as I was able to bump the revenants to the edge where they were stuck.

I feel like the invulnerability in the sector 299 area gimps the fight with the arch-vile and revenants, even though I know the point is to make it easier for players. It could either be left as-is with the invulnerability or you could place easier monster encounters for the lower difficulty.

MAP06: Surprisingly not much to bring up about this one...I almost felt the arch-vile dropping down in sector 934 might be a bit much, but I realized almost anything else dropping down could prove to be more deadly, since the arch-vile doesn't have much room to move around in once he's revealed.

Once again, excellent maps so far!

On 4/14/2022 at 7:02 AM, Thelokk said:

Beg to differ, revilution is a perfectly fine megawad, just as devilution is shaping up to be. 

Just to clarify rejects doesn't mean bad levels, rather levels that were rejected from the main project. So they absolutely can be completely fine for sure.

One tiny oversight on Map19. Mancubus can use the teleporter that leads to sector 32 and become stuck because the destination spot is too near a monster can't cross line.

1 hour ago, Andromeda said:

Just to clarify rejects doesn't mean bad levels, rather levels that were rejected from the main project. So they absolutely can be completely fine for sure.

Just as likely rejected for not being TNT-like. But the irony is I'm seeing maybe 10% TNTness in the final releases anyway. On the other other hand, some of the least TNT-like music in Revilution was submitted by Jeremy Doyle, so...

21 minutes ago, Bucket said:

 

Just as likely rejected for not being TNT-like. 

Y'know this makes me wonder, how does one gauge how "TNT-like" something is? for me some of the Levels in Devilution like Map02 feels very TNT compared to say Map23, but i have no clue why.

I can't speak to what the mapping criteria was before or during the Big Split(tm), but after the dust settled the project goal basically became "make the best vanilla maps you can using this texture set", rather than try and set some sort of DTWID-like authenticity threshold or whatnot.

IMO the "let's make an authentic TNT sequel" ship sailed far before any of us goofballs got involved, 'cause if TeamTNT had actually made an Official TNT 2, they definitely would've made it for Boom... or ZDoom. :P

In my opinion, one of the best things about TNT: Evilution was the lack of clear adherence to any particular overarching design tenets. Like, in the first ten maps alone, can it really be said that Human BBQ, Power Control, Wormhole, Prison, and Stronghold have pretty much anything in common with each other - in gameplay or in aesthetic - aside from a general tech vibe and some shared custom textures?

Most people who like TNT are probably drawn to different aspects of it because of its sheer variety, so in my opinion, it is most in the spirit of a TNT followup project to embrace that variety and team spirit. I think TNT:R did a great job of that overall, having a nice blend of distinct mapping and musical styles with a greater level of polish than the original. Can't wait to finally be free enough to sit down and play TNT:D so I can see how it carries on that legacy!

On 4/13/2022 at 5:26 PM, BohdanZPM said:

@Marcaek Why TNT: Devilution is TNT 2? The first sequel to TNT: Evilution was TNT: Revilution, so your wad should be the third in the series, not the second. And if Devilution is TNT 2, then Revilution is what - TNT 2-A or something? I'm confused.

This world has fractions :P

On 4/13/2022 at 5:44 PM, BohdanZPM said:

So basically, these are parallel sequels, only being released in different times. It would probably be correct to treat them as equal descendants to TNT: Evilution. Just like Plutonia 2 and Plutonia: Revisited Community Project are equal descendants to The Plutonia Experiment. Am I right?

There's no point actually thinking something a sequel with all different mappers. Just like there are some complaints about Devilution doesn't feel like TNT. However, it's like 20 years already, making a fully TNT feel map probably isn't interesting to the audience anymore.

With all being said, there's no point trying to sort everything in a "making sense" way.

In my heart and mind, Devilution will forever be TNT2 and Revilution will be TNT3, simply due to the way both were developed.

With something more relevant to this, I must admit that I am rather slow to play this, but it is such an enjoyable experience I've had thus far. When I last played, I was on Map 05 or 06, not even clearing the first episode, but I am truly in love with this and will see it through to the end. I can't say anything that hasn't already been said here, so great work TeamDevilution :p

What's the ETA on the missing map being finished so we can tie a nice lovely bow on this megaWAD?

6 hours ago, Xaser said:

I can't speak to what the mapping criteria was before or during the Big Split(tm), but after the dust settled the project goal basically became "make the best vanilla maps you can using this texture set", rather than try and set some sort of DTWID-like authenticity threshold or whatnot.

I believe this was for the best. While neither Revilution nor Devilution feel exactly TNT-ish, this is almost certainly a good thing as all of TNT's original wads (Evilution, Icarus, Eternal Doom) have plenty of flaws in them that trying to mimic their style 1-to-1 would just result in a much inferior wad than what both of the Evilution sequels are. Its a good thing that both sequels mostly only borrowed the good aspects of the original like having sheer variety in level design, sense of adventure and a bit of doomcute-ness (who doesn't like sector trucks :D )

5 hours ago, Biodegradable said:

What's the ETA on the missing map being finished so we can tie a nice lovely bow on this megaWAD?

Another ten years or so.

On 4/18/2022 at 6:19 PM, Bucket said:

 

Just as likely rejected for not being TNT-like. But the irony is I'm seeing maybe 10% TNTness in the final releases anyway. On the other other hand, some of the least TNT-like music in Revilution was submitted by Jeremy Doyle, so...

Not sure I understand the need to throw shade here, @Bucket. Is it because my midis bumped others off the originally planned soundtrack? How are my midis less "TNT-like" than Varis Alpha or Tristan's?