BomberBlur07 Posted June 11, 2022 (edited) On my way to beat Doom 1 on UV, the first two maps of E4 wrecked me. They are super grindy, super hard and not fun at all. I always get enraged when I play these maps. Yet, many of the "good" wads out there are super hard and grindy. I don't get it. How do people even enjoy this shit? This can also apply to other games as well, I never liked the Souls games for example. (Off topic, I miss the mindless approach late 2000s, early 2010s games took. I wish they did that type of games again.) How do people even enjoy these kinds of hard maps? Edited June 11, 2022 by BomberBlur07 3 Share this post Link to post
Nefelibeta Posted June 11, 2022 First two maps of E4 are pretty unfair and almost as hard as the ones in Plutonia Experiment. I’d recommend you to try out others before playing them. Difficult maps are only fun when you’re experienced enough. 7 Share this post Link to post
Biodegradable Posted June 11, 2022 (edited) 57 minutes ago, BomberBlur07 said: How do people even enjoy these kinds of hard maps? When you've been playing the same game for over 20 years, you get too good at it and need to find ways to keep it interesting and fresh. And so, people have pushed the difficulty to new heights to help sustain interest. This is a big reason why community-made WADs typically range from a fair bit more challenging to a fuck-ton harder than anything the IWADs have to offer. Edited June 11, 2022 by Biodegradable 19 Share this post Link to post
baja blast rd. Posted June 11, 2022 Part of it is that people are different. People have fun with different base mechanics. Some people like rocketing imps in open spaces; some people get that joy from platforming on stilts. Some people like BFG-ing a nice big clump of zombies; some people find it even more satisfying to two-shot cybs. Some people love blowing up a bunch of revs with barrels; some have the same sort of fun doing that repeated "juking" thing until a projectile hits it. Situations count too. Some people have fun power-tripping with lots of health and ammo. Some people have that exact kind of fun scrounging around for pickups on low health and ammo. Some people have fun with lower-intensity play. Some people have fun with higher-intensity play. Some people love space. Some people love being cramped. Some people love being more in control, as the map tries to wrest it away. Some people want to be in the map's control, and have to wrest it away. Some people, as you do, take an antagonistic mindset to certain forms of damage or death. Some don't (or have a higher threshold for that) because they have a different mindset. People tend to have very different base-level reactions to fundamental aspects of playing. In some people that leads to liking easier maps. In some people that leads to liking harder maps. Neither is "superior," really; it's just different ways of enjoying the game. ~ On top of that, people have different skillsets so what might be easier for one player might be harder for another. These days, the feeling of playing something in late Sunlust or many slaughterwads is eerily similar to that of playing Vanguard when I was new. It's intense but extremely manageable, and I'll die, but not frustratingly much -- so I sometimes pop open a map like SL28 to chill. That would have been absurd to think of when I was new, but it happened. (Also I can enjoy easy wads too just as much, by avoiding playing unnecessarily well until I inevitably have like 5% health or something. Playing ""badly"" can be fun; don't let anyone tell you otherwise. :P) 28 Share this post Link to post
Murdoch Posted June 11, 2022 Some people get off on pain. I don't judge. Much. 1 Share this post Link to post
Frost-Core Posted June 11, 2022 They are fun because of grinding, if you grind you can flex your grindings to become the best player, also they are fun because pain is not lame, training does give fun. I know E4 maps are pretty hard and i don't really wanna play them again, however be prepared for stuff like plutonia, or maybe even TNT MAP07 0 Share this post Link to post
Gregor Posted June 11, 2022 (edited) You play more, you get better. Simple as that. You'll get better the more you play as long as you keep challenging yourself. Episode 4 isn't really meant to be played right after Doom 1. You should move on to Doom 2, then come back afterwards. Episode 4 was only added later after Doom 2 had already come out. 0 Share this post Link to post
Doomy__Doom Posted June 11, 2022 2 hours ago, BomberBlur07 said: Yet, many of the "good" wads out there are super hard and grindy Whenever someone makes this type of statement, it is heaviliy contingent on: a) what a specific player finds fun (sufficiently covered by @baja blast rd.'s post) b) where their skill falls relative to the map's challenge (bottom right - Content - is often dubbed Relaxation) In order to have the most fun possible, the map needs to match both your preferences and your skills. By playing more and more Doom you will not only eventually improve and form your preferences more clearly, but hopefully also learn to quickly distinguish whether the map is a good fit for "the you right now". 12 Share this post Link to post
Snaxalotl Posted June 11, 2022 (edited) Its simple, I like my maps how I like my... Nevermind. 10 Share this post Link to post
Murdoch Posted June 11, 2022 8 minutes ago, Snaxalotl said: Its simple, I like my maps how I like my... Nevermind. Haaaaaaaaaahahahaha 1 Share this post Link to post
BGreener Posted June 11, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, BomberBlur07 said: On my way to beat Doom 1 on UV, the first two maps of E4 wrecked me. They are super grindy, super hard and not fun at all. I always get enraged when I play these maps. Yet, many of the "good" wads out there are super hard and grindy. I don't get it. How do people even enjoy this shit? This can also apply to other games as well, I never liked the Souls games for example. (Off topic, I miss the mindless approach late 2000s, early 2010s games took. I wish they did that type of games again.) How do people even enjoy these kinds of hard maps? For some, going into a level blind on one of the harder difficulties is asking for trouble. Good levels are enjoyable regardless of difficulty, and people can work their way towards the harder settings for a level after getting comfortable with an easier difficulty. The spawns for enemies and items can also be tied to the difficulty settings, for E4M1 in particular I recall it really limiting the health pickups on Ultra Violence. 2 Share this post Link to post
Doomkid Posted June 11, 2022 How do people enjoy hard maps? Very carefully 8 Share this post Link to post
Doomkid Posted June 11, 2022 Also how is E4M1 grindy?! That map takes like 10 minutes, even as a kid who could barely pass the map with 5% health I never found it what I'd call a "grind", it's far too short for such a label.. 10 Share this post Link to post
Dusty_Rhodes Posted June 11, 2022 Just now, Doomkid said: Very carefully heh No really, it's just a difference in skill. I'm not that great at Doom - I can beat the IWADs with ease but anything harder than say, Community Chest or Hell Revealed II is definitely out of my range on Ultra Violence. There's no shame in playing the Startdate wads by Ribbiks or other more modern sets on a lower skill. The skill feature exists for a reason. 3 minutes ago, Doomkid said: Also how is E4M1 grindy?! That map takes like 10 minutes, even as a kid who could barely pass the map with 5% health I never found it what I'd call a "grind", it's far too short for such a label.. yeah wtf. Ten minutes is a long session heh 3 Share this post Link to post
Red Recluse Posted June 11, 2022 Overcoming obstacles and difficult moments. 0 Share this post Link to post
Shepardus Posted June 11, 2022 32 minutes ago, Doomkid said: Also how is E4M1 grindy?! That map takes like 10 minutes, even as a kid who could barely pass the map with 5% health I never found it what I'd call a "grind", it's far too short for such a label.. Try a Tyson run! 9 Share this post Link to post
Nine Inch Heels Posted June 11, 2022 4 hours ago, BomberBlur07 said: On my way to beat Doom 1 on UV, the first two maps of E4 wrecked me. They are super grindy, super hard and not fun at all. I always get enraged when I play these maps. The question isn't how or why people enjoy these types of maps, the question that needs to be asked and answered is why you play maps you obviously do not like, and on a difficulty setting that is apparently too much for you to handle. 4 hours ago, BomberBlur07 said: (Off topic, I miss the mindless approach late 2000s, early 2010s games took. I wish they did that type of games again.) How do people even enjoy that crap..? (See what I did there?) Also, if you want a game that requires zero cognitive activity, I hear path of exile is pretty good... 16 Share this post Link to post
Biodegradable Posted June 11, 2022 8 minutes ago, Nine Inch Heels said: Also, if you want a game that requires zero cognitive activity, I hear path of exile is pretty good... How about Raid: Shadow Legends? That piece of shit plays itself and doesn't need player input at all! 8 Share this post Link to post
MtPain27 Posted June 11, 2022 My relationship with Doom used to be quite dysfunctional, actually. Before I dove into community-made content, I spent a long time mastering the iwads, first keyboard only, then with mouse and keyboard. Specifically, campaigns in Thy Flesh Consumed and The Plutonia Experiment often felt like self-flagellation...I would often thing, "Why am I doing this to myself, dying over and over?" After two years of compulsive replays that varied from (needlessly) stressful to empowering (it got to the point where I could roll through almost the entirety of TNT: Evilution saveless/continuous in an evening), I downloaded Eviternity, Sigil, and Hell Revealed 2, which gave me burns of all degrees. Alien Vendetta came after that, and it beat me to a pulp so badly that I physically could not continue past MAP 27, even with saves. I was despondent for two reasons: 1) These maps were beyond my skill level, and 2) I wouldn't get to see what came next. I think it's perfectly normal to get frustrated after a fierce clubbing from a Doom map--it still happens to me today--but the main question always must be, "Is this worth it?" For me, getting to see the next map, especially in sets like Alien Vendetta, always sufficiently rewarded my suffering. Serious Doom playing began for me when I realized that enduring Plutonia's nastiness over and over had purchased more maps for me to play. I think all of us who have that endless appetite for Doom accept suffering as part and parcel of the journey to still more Doom. If you don't care much for 'what comes next' and just feel like you're banging your head against the wall playing this game, it could be that you're just having a rough day (I've been there), or it could be that Doom just doesn't click for you as much as it does for the die-hards, and there's really nothing wrong with that. In a single sentence, I enjoy hard maps because beating them feels like leveling up and unlocking more Doom to play, and I'm more determined than ever to see the full breadth of this community's work, because their creativity continues to profoundly inspire me. 41 Share this post Link to post
ZeroTheEro Posted June 11, 2022 people need their adrenaline rush after getting good with the game. it's evolution. 0 Share this post Link to post
NiGHTS108 Posted June 11, 2022 Simple, I like being crushed into a pulp by impossible odds 0 Share this post Link to post
Jayextee Posted June 11, 2022 E4M2 is a work of art, you absolute heathen. 8 Share this post Link to post
PKr Posted June 11, 2022 Obviously no one is playing harder maps, and if you hear someone saying they do enjoy some XYZ hard map, they are simply pretending. Btw, nobody has ever beaten E4M1/E4M2 before. The same applies to Dark Souls. 3 Share this post Link to post
Senor Cacodemon Posted June 11, 2022 I like hard maps, when you beat it you feel an unnecessary of accomplishment. Yesterday me and my friends re did Episode 4 together (Brutal Doom Nightmare) and we had a blast. 0 Share this post Link to post
i suck at nicknames Posted June 11, 2022 idk how to describe it but i guess it all comes down to a feeling of accomplishment after overcoming a really difficult map. besides, playing harder and harder maps and wads tend to make you approach and recognize different fights and combat scenarios accordingly and strive to use every resource you have whether its ammo/infighting/space to overcome any hurdles to your path to achieving DoomGod-dom. besides, im a save scummer so dying doesnt really matter to me lmao 0 Share this post Link to post
CittyKat112 Posted June 11, 2022 Why do people feel the need to make stupid and nonsensical posts like this one? First there was a post about why some players play saveless (implying they UV max every single map they play) and now this. It's like asking 'how do people enjoy cheese when I myself hate this shit?'. 10 Share this post Link to post
LadyMistDragon Posted June 13, 2022 On 6/11/2022 at 7:00 AM, Snaxalotl said: Its simple, I like my maps how I like my... Nevermind. yeah, it's fine, me too 1 Share this post Link to post