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Zoorado said:

Think so. Imagine a 16-player map with full physics versatility and dynamic real-time lighting/shadowing. Everyone fires a rocket, and you'll have rockets exploding, blood splattering, gibs flying, limbs faltering, bodies slumping, noise occluding/echoing, numerous shadows being cast in light of explosion... Next thing you know, the screen blacks out and your system crashes.

Yeah, but id said they'll bring out a multiplayer add-on. Not sure if that's still the case though. Either way, you can't bring out a mp add-on with just 4 players per map, they'll have to figure something out to make it work for at least 16 players.

Disorder said:

But is it too much to ask for a standard multiplayer experience as well?

I do think that it`s probalby technical problem.maybe today`s computer cannot handle enough more than 4 players MP.(just my opinion)

I beleive the Doom 3 engine can handle alot of people on one server, but like some people have said; people's computers can not handle it yet.

Whoever has started the rumour that 4 people are the mp limit for Doom3 deserves to get stoned into oblivion.

While Doom3 isn't a client / server architecture you can still set the limit in mp to whatever you want within the limits, but the limit isn't "4".

"4" is what Tim Willits said last year as a number they're aiming for while maintaining good performance.
He instantly added that you can crank the number higher, but I guess this part did slip the shocked minds of people with a .5 seconds attention span.

I'd say - don't worry, id will deliver, but Doom3 (and Quake4 unless Raven has made a new announcement between my reply and the time I need to click "submit") won't be a multiplayer oriented game.

Mod coders will welcome Doom3 as a solid base to work with and it's an educated guess that the multiplayer scene will be happy within a reasonable timeframe after Doom3's release.

Disorder said:

It's pretty clear now that you don't like mp, but the majority wants to see decent multiplayer-action. Multiplayer makes a game lasts longer if done right.

Jesus Christ. PLAY QUAKE 3. And you are not the "majority", I've seen nothing that remotely suggests that a "majority" wants a big-deal multiplayer game.

for real!!!! its not like theres a mass shortage of multiplayer-oriented games on the market, its quite the opposite! singleplayer games have been neglected for the past few years! its about goddamned time that theres been a focus on the single player aspect of a game, and it couldnt be better that it is doom.

it is even APPROPRIATE that its doom! i mean, youre a LONE space marine who is in a base when all hell breaks loose.

Either come with a decent multiplayersupport or leave it the fuck out.

Disorder said:

Either come with a decent multiplayersupport or leave it the fuck out.

What, that's retarded. Doom deathmatch sounds extremely fun.

Disorder said:

Either come with a decent multiplayersupport or leave it the fuck out.

No. I can't wait for Doom 3 MP. It sounds fun.

Sounds to me like the DooM3 multiplayer isn't finished. But id know they need to include some multiplayer support in the initial release (despite what some of the single player zealots around here think, having a multiplayer option is pretty much a neccesity if you want a marketable FPS these days), so they're including what they can, even if it can't handle too many players.

I guess we'll have to wait for this add-on pack to get proper multiplayer support though.

gatewatcher said:

What, that's retarded. Doom deathmatch sounds extremely fun.

Shaviro said:

No. I can't wait for Doom 3 MP. It sounds fun.

What I don't understand is that id is going to release Doom³ with limited multiplayer capabilities, and release a more complete multiplayer add-on later. Then why not leave the limited multiplayer out of the full version and focus on the multiplayer add-on instead?

Disorder said:

What I don't understand is that id is going to release Doom³ with limited multiplayer capabilities, and release a more complete multiplayer add-on later. Then why not leave the limited multiplayer out of the full version and focus on the multiplayer add-on instead?

What I don't understand is why you are offended by Doom's multiplayer. It's a simple deathmatch for now, and if you don't like it, that's why they made Quake 3.

Maybe id just can't be bothered right now to implement all the features of Quake 3 into a game as complicated as Doom III.

gatewatcher said:

Jesus Christ. PLAY QUAKE 3. And you are not the "majority", I've seen nothing that remotely suggests that a "majority" wants a big-deal multiplayer game.

Plz, don't say like that.('_')
Some people inclue me tired of palying Q3 and want new breed of MP.
This is why some people inclue me looking forward to Doom3 MP.

cloud4me said:
Plz, don't say like that.('_')

eh? anyway...

cloud4me also said:
...Some people inclue me tired of palying Q3 and want new breed of MP.
This is why some people inclue me looking forward to Doom3 MP.

OK, I'll put it this way:
If the main reason your looking forward to doom 3 is multiplayer component, then you probably going to be disappointed. id is making it clear that doom 3 multiplayer is meant to be a 'nice extra'.

Although I´m definitely a MP nut, I´m looking forward to Doom 3 as a great Singleplayer game. I´m not very interested in Doom 3´s Multiplayer MP aspects because I think the MP component is too limited and won´t match Q3 or UT2k3 (my favourite MP games) style anyways.

But I sure will be pissed if Quake 4 will have no strong Multiplayer.

Why am I looking forward to Doom³ Deathmatch? Because I seriously think it will be more fun than Quake 3, Unreal Tournament 2003 and all those fullblown multiplayer games.

Disorder said:

Either way, you can't bring out a mp add-on with just 4 players per map, they'll have to figure something out to make it work for at least 16 players.

What you're asking is technically impossible on today's computers. You can't have 16 playermodels on the screen with all their weapon effects, shadows and bumpmaps and still maintain a somewhat decent framerate. Also remember that in general MP requires a higher framerate then SP.

I also read somewhere that bandwidth usage in Doom3 MP grows exponentially with the number of players. Going from 4 to 6 players might as well double the bandwidth usage due to Doom3's peer-to-peer setup.

I think Doom3 DM will be great for LAN play or for small home networks. With all the shadows and flashlights, even a 1 on 1 could be a blast to play.

Sure, big team-oriented internet battles with 32 players are also fun, but there are plenty of games to choose from if you're into that.

Shaviro said:

Why am I looking forward to Doom³ Deathmatch? Because I seriously think it will be more fun than Quake 3, Unreal Tournament 2003 and all those fullblown multiplayer games.

Depends on what style of Multiplayer you prefer. I guess Doom 3 MP will be more slow-paced (not my kind of thing), and maybe good for some cat-and-mouse style duels, with hiding in the dark etc.

Tetzlaff said:

Depends on what style of Multiplayer you prefer. I guess Doom 3 MP will be more slow-paced (not my kind of thing), and maybe good for some cat-and-mouse style duels, with hiding in the dark etc.

It will be different. Not a slow counterstrike clone nor a fast Quake 3 clone, but somewhere in between. No more mega fragfests, but more intelligent battles on a lower scale. Just my thoughts.

Doom3 will be a fond farewell to "Dead Simple", and more to the classic "hunter" maps.

But why release a multiplayer add-on that can only support up to, let's say, 5 players per map if you have that same multiplayer support in the full version?

Disorder said:

But why release a multiplayer add-on that can only support up to, let's say, 5 players per map if you have that same multiplayer support in the full version?

These points are most likely going to be included in the multiplayer add-on:

Engine optimizations.
Multiplayer maps (Including 8 player start maps!?).
More, different MP game types.

Thanks for the info. But I can't remember the last time I heard about the mp add-on. Is it still planned?

Disorder said:

Thanks for the info. But I can't remember the last time I heard about the mp add-on. Is it still planned?

They spoke of it in the Wired magazine as well as an sp add-on.

Personally, having played quite a few stealth shooters multiplayer, the games are far better with fewer players. If there is loads of players around, there isn't so much tension and sneaking - you never get those moments where you are stealthily tracking another player from behind, waiting for the perfect shot. Having lots of players removes some of the scope for intelligent tactics, because there is so much going on at once.

I don't think Doom3 is going to be a complete gung-ho run-and-gun game, judging from the player speed, and I expect the multiplayer will reflect this. And, as someone said, there is a cvar to increase the maxplayers anyway.

//Edit: Stealth shooters is probably the wrong phrase. I mean more, MP games which aren't really high speed like Q3.

Lame ass MP freaks. Shit, you have ruled the last 5 years of gaming.
Give it a rest. Nerve are on the job. Also, Rumours of Counter-Strike2 to follow Half-Life 2. Doom3 = SP from day one. You should be happy your getting any type of MP experience.

I always knew there would be whingers out there crying into their huge pillows at the fact that Doom3 wont be a MP game. The fact is, you all know this YEARS ago. So shut up kiddies and if you're good, some other nice company will make you a multiplayer game, but only if you're good.

DOOM3 = SINGLEPLAYER
QED

cloud4me said:

Some people inclue me tired of palying Q3 and want new breed of MP.
This is why some people inclue me looking forward to Doom3 MP.

If you want a new breed, then play Doom III deathmatch, that's new breed. If that's not good enough for your mp standards, then play ut'03 or wait for ut'04. Doom is not a multiplayer game, it's a single player game. What's hard to understand about that?

gatewatcher said:

If you want a new breed, then play Doom III deathmatch, that's new breed. If that's not good enough for your mp standards, then play ut'03 or wait for ut'04. Doom is not a multiplayer game, it's a single player game. What's hard to understand about that?

Yep, Doom 3 is finally breaking the old tried-and-true all action mp style.
And if you ask me, mp games have long needed something in its prime. After having been disappointed by the announcement that Quake 3 would be an mp-only game, I started hoping that it would bring along new mp game elements and hopefully a new gameplay style - it didn't.

But Doom 3 will be more tactical, while still arcadey enough to not be another CS - that's what I'm excited about concerning Doom 3's multiplayer aspect.
You want a new breed of mp? You sure wouldn't get it if iD just did another Quake3arena style game, because that'd just be Q3A with prettier graphics (oh and Q3A was really just Quake and Quake 2 with prettier graphics anyway) and not at all new or interesting.

Go play Doom 3 when it's out - that'd be a different, but interesting experience. And if you don't like that...well, Nerve is cooking up an mp-only game that'll probably be something action-packed a la Q3A.

dsm said:

(oh and Q3A was really just Quake and Quake 2 with prettier graphics anyway)

True. If i didn't know better i'd say quake 3 uses the same engine as quake 2 cuz they look quite similar.

The thing about quake is that it's main appeal has always focused around multiplayer. Quake one sp is pretty quick to beat (casting mission packs and mods aside for the moment) whilst from having played both sp and mp, mp has far more durability. True Quake 2 is more developed with sp and takes longer but the main appeal for the series has always come from it's multiplayer. I would know. Me and my mates were play sp quake 2 recently and it didn't take more than 3 or 4 levels before we wanted to thrash each other in dm (i won all the matchs btw). So in theory it was probably no wonder why Q3A was an mp based game.

Doom's different though. Although doom mp is cool, sp has played just as much, if not more, of an important role in makingthe game great, and at the end of the day doom seems to have done relatively great on other consoles without mp (snes doom and doom64, both of which i've played and know about).

So round it all up; don't decieve yourself with the idea that you're gonna play doom3 mp before doom3 sp, espicially with the atmoshere with sp.