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Arno

RTCW 2 ?

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Splashdamage, creators of Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory, are recruiting a graphics programmer for the Doom3 engine. ( Job description )

Quote: "As a London-based independent game studio working in collaboration with id Software and Activision, we are looking for a talented Graphics Programmer to join us for our new project based on the Doom 3 engine."

If this new project is gonna be a sequel to RTCW, I'm going to drool all over it! I would love to play RTCW-style multiplayer in combination with the Doom3 engine. I hope this is gonna be the case.

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I just want a sequel with cool sp - screw mp. But yeah, if they're really doing a RtCW sequel, then it'd rock - provided that they do it right.
Let's hope that they make the enemies' pain tolerance right this time - I'm sick of enemies that don't flinch when hit.

On the other hand, there's no mention of a RtCW sequel in this thing, so it might be something completely different altogether.

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This isn't a Doom 3 topic. Sure it uses the engine, but the game itself has nothing to do with Doom 3.

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dsm said:

On the other hand, there's no mention of a RtCW sequel in this thing, so it might be something completely different altogether.

True. But SplashDamage has gained a lot of attention with their free Enemy Territory game. It would be wise from a commercial point of view if their next game is also set in the Wolfenstein universe.

I agree that SP Wolfenstein would be a lot of fun on the Doom3 engine as well. The dark atmosphere of Doom3 would fit Castle Wolfenstein nicely. However, if I have to choose between SP and MP Wolfenstein, I'd go for MP.

Shaviro said:

This isn't a Doom 3 topic. Sure it uses the engine, but the game itself has nothing to do with Doom 3.

I felt it was kind of Doom3-related. But, whatever, "Everything Else" is fine by me.

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Oops! Yeah. Mistakes like that happen when I try to place two quotes in a single post by copying the first quote and changing the contents. It's fixed now. Thanks.

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Arno said:

True. But SplashDamage has gained a lot of attention with their free Enemy Territory game. It would be wise from a commercial point of view if their next game is also set in the Wolfenstein universe.

My beef with these news is that Splash Damage made Enemy Territory mp only - and it's further a beef I've got that they originally intended to make the sp part of ET a game with AI controlled team mates - it'll seriously fuck up any chance of me buying it if they make "RtCW 2" a game with AI controlled team mates - I want to go at it ALONE.

Maybe this is only part of it: consider that Splash Damage are doing the mp component of "RtCW 2" (I hope they name it differently - "RtCW 2" kinda sucks), while another developer makes the sp part (Graymatter again perhaps? - They did do quite well for RtCW imo).

If that's the case, then it could turn out really cool, though I'm still worried about the team mates thing - every so often, I see comments on other forums about how the "old rambo style has gotten old" and how "team games are the way forward" - I couldn't disagree more: I feel the games with team mates are slowly ruining what I consider the core of a good FPS: the feeling of being on your own against the world.
And I'm worried that game developers will begin to take these comments too serious and go in the team mates direction more often than not.

I've got plenty of ideas for a sequel to RtCW though - both for storyline, gameplay and character concepts. "Operation Eisenfaust" anyone? Summoning demons from Hell anyone? :-P

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Ct_red_pants said:

Oh PLEASE let us kill Hitler in RtCW 2!! histroy be damnd! That would make it the perfect game!

My suggestion: You should fight hitler (who's piloting some awesome mech vehicle), chase him until he locks a door in front of you. Behind the door you get to hear how he shoots Eva Braun and himself.

That may not be historically correct, but it'll be closer to something historically correct.

Heh, maybe it'll be a retelling of Spear of Destiny :)

Might be, but on the other hand, I like the original Wolf3d story way better than the SoD story and even though they did try to partially retell that in RtCW, I feel they missed out on some stuff.

I'd like to see a real reinterpretation of the zombie mutants in "RtCW 2" (I've got fairly good ideas as to how they'd be as enemies) - not just some new X-creatures a la the lopers and super soldiers (although they were definitely cool), plus, I'd also like to see RtCW's zombies return - maybe add some skeleton warriors as substitute for those zombie knights (I kinda like the idea of skeletons with shields and weapons better than armoured zombies that strangely enough move faster than the regular zombies).

Of course, Castle Wolfenstein itself should be a central part of the game and that's where my idea about summoning demons comes into play: imagine that it is revealed that Wolfenstein was built on the ruins of some unholy temple and that the Nazis dig down into some crypts under the castle where they find means to reach into Hell (Doom 2 map 31+32 anyone?) - as a result they conjure up more undead scum and ultimately summon a demon boss that you'd have to fight.

Just some wacky ideas.

I'd also like to see keys make a return - have a brass and steel key that you may need once in a while. "Find-the-key" puzzles may be old, but they were a rather central part of all the Wolfenstein games (RtCW excepted) and I surely never grow tired of them (as long as they're not everywhere in the game) - maybe add chests that you can open (if you have a key) to find Nazi uniforms to put on or other goodies.

And one last thing: Do NOT leave out the dogs this time!!!

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NiGHTMARE said:

Heh, maybe it'll be a retelling of Spear of Destiny :)

I would definitly appreciate some sort of treasure hunt towards the mystical Spear of Destinty. Indiana Jones style. But with more nazi's.

dsm said:

My suggestion: You should fight hitler (who's piloting some awesome mech vehicle), chase him until he locks a door in front of you. Behind the door you get to hear how he shoots Eva Braun and himself.

As far as I know, nobody actually witnessed the deaths of Hitler and Eva. So if B.J. somehow infiltrates the Reichtag bunker undetected and assasinates Hitler and Eva without being seen by any guards, it might still historically fit in somehow. Your idea is pretty cool as well, but I think it would be cooler to just kill Hitler by yourself.

dsm said:

imagine that it is revealed that Wolfenstein was built on the ruins of some unholy temple and that the Nazis dig down into some crypts under the castle where they find means to reach into Hell (Doom 2 map 31+32 anyone?) - as a result they conjure up more undead scum and ultimately summon a demon boss that you'd have to fight.

I like this idea, especially the connection with the secret Doom2 levels. To implement such an idea, the developers could actually reuse stuff from Doom3, like models and textures. It would save some development time and it's all property of Id/Activision anyway.

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dsm said:

My suggestion: You should fight hitler (who's piloting some awesome mech vehicle), chase him until he locks a door in front of you. Behind the door you get to hear how he shoots Eva Braun and himself.

That may not be historically correct, but it'll be closer to something historically correct.


Not true: B.J. killed Hitler! :P

actually, it's my theory that hitler was indeed killed by a covert agent, but nobody took credit for it for some reason or another, mainly it looks better to the world if Hitler was supposedly a coward than a guy who went down fighting. i'm probably wrong.

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Arno said:
As far as I know, nobody actually witnessed the deaths of Hitler and Eva. So if B.J. somehow infiltrates the Reichtag bunker undetected and assasinates Hitler and Eva without being seen by any guards, it might still historically fit in somehow. Your idea is pretty cool as well, but I think it would be cooler to just kill Hitler by yourself.

Heh, I actually suggested that in another (old) thread, and instantly, somebody showed up with various arguments with URLs of historical proof that Hitler could only have killed himself.

Basically, the most important aspect of Wolf3d's Hitler confrontation is the mech battle imo. Killing Hitler would be sweet though, but it wouldn't be a bad thing if you ended up driving him to commit suicide.

Being so far out that you want to commit suicide is, after all, pretty painful - mentally at least, so you could say that Hitler got what he deserved.

I like this idea, especially the connection with the secret Doom2 levels. To implement such an idea, the developers could actually reuse stuff from Doom3, like models and textures. It would save some development time and it's all property of Id/Activision anyway. [/B]

Heh, I didn't actually intend to reveal the ideas that I have been kicking around for some time now, but since I've got the ball rolling, I might as well explain all my story ideas for a RtCW sequel:
The OSA gets wind of various rumours - among the most persistent and interesting are the rumours that Deathshead has resurfaced and that he furthermore hangs out in a Fort Hollehammer which is a high security military fort. The rumours suggest that Deathshead is building the perfect army, which sounds believable enough for the OSA (they believe that he's started a new "Project Super Soldat"), so they send BJ in to investigate on this.

BJ finds out that not only does the rumours hold some credence to them, but he also infiltrates Fort Hollehammer and encounters Deathshead's new toys: Zombie soldiers made from both fresh and not-so-fresh corpses which have been brought back to life through a different type of science (manipulation of dead cells or some crap like that).
He ultimately ruins Deathsheads little project, chases Deathshead and finally manages to assasinate the bugger.
However underway, BJ has also found things that suggest that some other rumours regarding Castle Wolfenstein are not totally off, so he's ultimately sent to infiltrate the now heavily restructured and reinforced Castle Wolfenstein (which now houses a large force of SS troops) to find that not only are the bad Nazis meddling with occult stuff again, but they seem to have found a way to raise and control the (real) living dead (zombies, skeleton knights).
It gets even better as BJ uncovers the secret crypt under Castle Wolfenstein's cellar, because he ultimately finds that the Nazis are trying to summon the forces of Evil from Hell to do their bidding: he arrives just in time to see the mad Nazi scientist be ripped to shreds by a demon which is no other demon than the Doom 3 Baron of Hell itself (yeap, my idea is that the RtCW sequel contains a clear reference to Doom 3) and BJ will fight the Baron which is a boss.

After returning to the OSA victoriously, the OSA have finally traced the whereabouts of Hitler and decide to end WW2 once and for all, so they send BJ in to "deal" with the sicko. End of story.

The idea of the zombie soldier mutants is obviously one I've drawn from classic Wolf3d. The X-creatures in RtCW are obviously very cool and all, but they don't really capture the feeling of the old zombie mutants - therefore I got the idea that they might be in a RtCW sequel. There should of course be different kinds. The ones I had in mind would be:
the most common type: A guy with some limited armour, especially shoulder plates and a chest plate. In the chest plate, there's a gun sticking out which the mutant can fire at will. In addition to the gun, the mutant carries some sort of underarm metal covers, which are more than just armour: They contain large blades with which the creature can slice you with at close range.

A different type: Would be a female mutant not totally unlike the Elite Chicks in RtCW, which does not carry any armour (she's the weakest of the mutants), but is very fast and agile. Its weapons consist of advanced tesla technology incorporated into her arms so that she can litterally shoot a short range tesla attack from its fingertips.

Just some wacky ideas. Gimme some feedback :-)

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IMJack said:

How's this for an idea:

*Original idea*

Achtung! You are being taken Beyond Wolfenstein 3-D.

Sorry, but I must say that I don't like that idea at all for a sequel to RtCW (this is more like an attempt at doing a Wolf3d sequel, but I guess that was what you intended). Hm, maybe you're not even serious?

The reasons why I didn't like the idea is first and foremost because it seems wacky to me that "Grandpa" conjures up a chaingun out of nowhere (the thing with RtCW was that the Venom gun, which is the chaingun, was a top-secret prototype weapon, which barely got into the field of battle before BJ started his rampage on Deathsheads weapons labs).
Secondly, it's just not Wolfenstein if the setting isn't WW2. And personally, I'm not too happy about playing as anyone else than BJ, but that's just me.

I get the impression that you haven't tried RtCW. So for those who don't know, RtCW takes place during the year 1943 - and it ends in that same year, which means that there's still a good two years left of the war (in which lots of stuff can happen). BJ does not kill Hitler in RtCW (which a lot of Wolfie fans were disappointed with - I didn't care that much though) and BJ's arch nemesis in RtCW, Wilhelm "Deathshead" Strasse got away too (last thing he uttered in that game was the cheesy line: "We shall meet again!"), so naturally, all of this suggests that there will be a sequel, which still takes place in WW2 - in BJ's youth.

Naturally, to be truly great, "RtCW 2" will need to let you kill not only Deathshead, but to get a stab at Hitler himself. It'll also have to include stuff that RtCW didn't have from the old Wolf3d.

Oh, and that brings me on to the subject of doors: it kinda bugs me that RtCW didn't have those heavy prison steel doors that Wolf3d had. These doors that would clang shut with a heavy, metallic noise followed up by an ominous *click*, echoing throughout the hallways were really a great part of Wolf3d and I miss them greatly in RtCW.

That's why I came up with the idea of Fort Hollehammer and the restructured and slightly modernized Castle Wolfenstein. Case in point: I want those heavy steel doors back! And I want them to make a really ominous sound, similar to the old Wolf3d doors.

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Oh boy, MORE missions where you instantly fail if somebody sees you! :P

No more Wolfenstein games until they get some of the feel of the original back. That means dogs, ominous clanking metal doors, and a final boss who ISN'T some retarded Prussian king from god only knows when who's piss easy :P Hitler is the only logical boss of the next Wolfenstein game if you ask me.

dsm said:

My suggestion: You should fight hitler (who's piloting some awesome mech vehicle), chase him until he locks a door in front of you. Behind the door you get to hear how he shoots Eva Braun and himself.


Heh, that actually sounds pretty decent.

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Ubik said:

Oh boy, MORE missions where you instantly fail if somebody sees you! :P

I hope we will NOT see more of these - they fucking ruined half of the fun in an otherwise cool game that was RtCW.

I wouldn't mind stealth missions that have an alternate option: If you're detected, instead of getting a mission failure, the mission just gets harder. Like, they sound the alarm and close the main gate into some base or whatever, but if you look around and explore the map, you'll be able to find an alternate entrance that is not blocked, despite the fact that the enemy is all alert.

Also, it should be so that upon detection, the enemy gets massive reinforcements soon afterwards and a map that was a stealth map with few guards before suddenly becomes a map with loads of hardcore action and lots of enemies to gun down.

After all, stealth operations do have their bright spots - their only problem is that they get you a mission failure if you do the slightest mistake = NOT fun!
All they need to do is get rid of the mission failure thingy, so that you only "fail your mission" if you die or if you shoot a civilian (as long as they don't place civies in annoying places where they could get caught in crossline fire).

No more Wolfenstein games until they get some of the feel of the original back. That means dogs, ominous clanking metal doors, and a final boss who ISN'T some retarded Prussian king from god only knows when who's piss easy :P Hitler is the only logical boss of the next Wolfenstein game if you ask me.

My words exactly. Don't forget: Enemies that flinch when you hit them, allowing you to kill weaker guards with the pistol, dog food, MORE treasures than what RtCW had to offer, more "real" secret rooms with secret doors that open up instead of those lame "run-up-to-a-certain-beam-and-jump-to-a-hard-to-see-cave" secrets, and Nazis that yell stuff in German instead of this lame "There he is, stop him!!!" crap.

Have I left anything out?

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dsm said:

I hope we will NOT see more of these - they fucking ruined half of the fun in an otherwise cool game that was RtCW.

I wouldn't mind stealth missions that have an alternate option: If you're detected, instead of getting a mission failure, the mission just gets harder. Like, they sound the alarm and close the main gate into some base or whatever, but if you look around and explore the map, you'll be able to find an alternate entrance that is not blocked, despite the fact that the enemy is all alert.

Also, it should be so that upon detection, the enemy gets massive reinforcements soon afterwards and a map that was a stealth map with few guards before suddenly becomes a map with loads of hardcore action and lots of enemies to gun down.

After all, stealth operations do have their bright spots - their only problem is that they get you a mission failure if you do the slightest mistake = NOT fun!
All they need to do is get rid of the mission failure thingy, so that you only "fail your mission" if you die or if you shoot a civilian (as long as they don't place civies in annoying places where they could get caught in crossline fire).


I couldn't have put it any better.

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Basically, what I feel "RtCW 2" will need to be awesome would be to combine all the good stuff from all Wolfenstein games - including the classic Apple II Wolfenstein game from 1982 or thereabouts.

The Apple II game had chests that you could open to find various goodies - a feature that didn't survive in Wolf3d nor in RtCW, but I imagine that it could be incorporated nicely into a FPS to add some spice.
Furthermore, I'd kinda like to see a return of the golden/silver keys - sure, keyhunts are old, but they're too classic and too good to be left out - especially in a Wolfenstein game, since Wolf3d was the first FPS as such to have keyhunt puzzles.[edit2](Oops, I've already mentioned that in an earlier post!)[/edit2] The keys could be used to open the abovementioned chests as well as a few doors.

RtCW, as much as it failed to capture some of Wolf3d's key elements, still managed to become a great game in many aspects - I'd hate to get rid of the zombies or any of the "newer" weapons in RtCW (the FG42 rocks). Occult elements rock and really added to the Wolfenstein franchise (they were introduced in SoD, but I feel that RtCW took 'em a step further).

So if they could make a sequel to RtCW, keeping the main elements of RtCW and throwing in those Wolf3d elements that didn't make it into RtCW (I've heard that dogs were initially planned for RtCW but didn't make the cut because of the lame reason that there were lame dog lovers that were against it) and perhaps include those chests from the first Wolfie game, it's bound to be great if they can do it right.

[edit]Oh yeah and points! We need points to at least apply some sort of purpose to the treasures! Points would at least make treasures seem more 'useful' - even though I know that points in themselves don't add any real gameplay, they're still kinda satisfying.[/edit]

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I agree with all the "RTCW2 needs more treasures, more keys and more dogs" comments.
I would also like to see some secret levels. I mean, Wolf3D, Doom, Doom II, Quake and Quake II all have secret levels. RTCW should have had secret levels too. With even more treasures and some out-of-the-ordinary surroundings.

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dsm said:

Maybe this is only part of it: consider that Splash Damage are doing the mp component of "RtCW 2" (I hope they name it differently - "RtCW 2" kinda sucks), while another developer makes the sp part (Graymatter again perhaps? - They did do quite well for RtCW imo).


How about RtCW² [/shileds self from flaming}

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...presses a button and a 1000 mg weight drops onto Scabbed Angel's head...


Well, it looked a lot bigger in the catalog.

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