Node builder problems

I took my chances on making a E1 type level for ZDoom (using Doom II environment), but I'm having some problems due to nodebuilder I'm using (I think). The problem is... some of the monsters on the map are completely blind and deaf. They'll act only when hit by player or a monster.

So... what Node builder do you usually use for ZDoom maps? And do you know how to solve the problem itself?

Almost any node builder should work, either ones built into the various editiors, or the stand-alones like BSP, Zennode, WARM. This sounds more like some monsters are flagged "deaf", and if they can't "see" you, they won't respond until hit. Other than that, I think it's possible to have a reject table built so monsters won't react to you even if they should see you. Don't know how that would happen though (reject table filled with ones) unless you did it on purpose. If you can't sort it out, someone here can look at the wad and probably see what's up. Send to me if you want, mjblakely@earthlink.net I like looking into wad problems.

Here you go. The map's been sent (or has it?).

Hey, and when I tried to rebuild the nodes with last BSP (v5.0 i think), he told me that a vertex is outta range, or somethin' like that, what is a complete bullshit, because the map, after rebuilding the nodes in DeepSea worked well... only those stupid 30% of blind motha****in montarz!

If you have any ZDoom specific things in da wad it might be mucking things up.

I played it as-is with zdoom and did see some imps which would not attack me even if I shot them. Used zdoom +gennodes 1 to rebuild the nodes on the spot, did not fix the wad. Used WARM to rebuild the reject table and it works fine now. Sent wad back to you.

Hey, check your DeePsea settings, don't the file saving options include check boxes for "all attacks" and some other percentage of attacks? That must be it.

Biffy said:

Hey, check your DeePsea settings, don't the file saving options include check boxes for "all attacks" and some other percentage of attacks? That must be it.

That's what he did. If you set it to "NO Attacks" it's a good way to wander the level and check the placement of all the enemies without them moving around.

The other choices are just for fun to lend a bit of uncertainty to a level. Used to have even more options but never heard back so cut it back to the basics.

There really is no need for a calculated REJECT table on anything over a P200, so save yourself the time. [I've double-triple verified this with very large levels and lots of enemies using framerate as the objective basis (not "feels"<g>).]

deep said:

There really is no need for a calculated REJECT table on anything over a P200, so save yourself the time. [I've double-triple verified this with very large levels and lots of enemies using framerate as the objective basis (not "feels"<g>).]

Some time ago I did some extensive profiling to determine how big the impact of a reject table is. The only notable impact was on huge levels with several hundreds of monsters and even in the most extreme cases the reject table saved only 10% of the processing time for the game loop without the rendering. At no time whatsoever it even remotely impacted the frame rate so I have to agree it's a waste of time and space to keep it around.

Heh, not if you want to do cool tricks with it. Reject can do some very neat things.

Besides, why are you gonna nit-pick over something doesn't even take too long to build?

Grimm said:

Heh, not if you want to do cool tricks with it. Reject can do some very neat things.

That's true, but it's a PIA to do - meaning very few people bother. Anyone can if they want to though.

Besides, why are you gonna nit-pick over something doesn't even take too long to build?

And that's not true. Large levels take a very long time. That depends on your machine of course. For example, 19 minutes is not unusual.

Grimm said:

Besides, why are you gonna nit-pick over something doesn't even take too long to build?

Actually, >90% of node building time is spent on the reject build.

Well, alright, then it won't take long on machines where you wouldn't notice a difference if there was none . . . ? Arg, whatever. I say Reject all the way! :P