The C Stands for Carmack

Over at CNN.com there's an interview with John Carmack from Quakecon last week. In it he pretty much treads over the same stuff from other interviews, but there are a few points of interest:

Lest hardcore gamers fear Carmack is going soft, he notes his fights to simplify "Doom 3" haven't always been successful. He admits the id Software developers got into bitter arguments about whether to include "crouch" and "use" keys in the upcoming game. (He lost the debate over "crouch" – which now appears – but convinced the team there was no need for a "use" key.)

And of course there's more stuff on id's next game as well as Carmack's rocket expeditions and all the usual fun stuff. It's a pretty good read, go check it out.

fp! The use key is an old and outdated concept anyway, so thank God they didn't include it.

I dont mind the existance of a use key as long as it isnt something you'll have to be doing every 5 seconds. I especialy hope there are no crouch-jumps.

the articles says: "We're not doing another sequel next," said Carmack. "We will do a new title. It will be a shooter, with a different antagonist and protagonist. ... People who have been working in the company for a long time don't want to continually rehash their old work."

With the new game will come a new engine, meaning Carmack's oft-rumored retirement will remain a rumor for the next few years.

First off, I hope Carmack doesn't retire any time soon. He has been the mastermind (or one of the masterminds) behind some of the most played, most revered, most widely copied games of all time. Second off, I wonder what this mystery game will be....

Probably isn't planned yet

i prefer a use key to making all doors automatic. and crouch in doom sounds gay, too bad he lost that one.

DooMBoy said:

He has been the mastermind (or one of the masterminds) behind some of the most played, most revered, most widely copied games of all time.

mastermind? he's a fricking programmer! he programs! game designers come up with game designs, at least when they're allowed to.

Crouch will be usefull eg ducking out of the way from an archvile attack. Taking the use key out doesn't make the game simpler, the replacement isn't guaranteed to be better. We'll have to see.

I can't beleive caramack tried to take this stuff out, especially after the stupid 'bump into switch' crap from quake.

DooMBoy said:

First off, I hope Carmack doesn't retire any time soon.

I don't think he will any time soon, maybe 2 or 3 games down the road, but that may be wishful thinking :-/

First off, I think doom needs a use key. I hate accidently bumping into doors and having them open automatically. However the fact that when you look at a switch or other such item, you switch into activate mode, then you click on it and it opens. (At least that's how I remember from the uh, articles, I read about it.) So that's alright, I'd rather just have a use key though.

Then crouching, it's not going to ruin the game I don't think, but I don't really think doom needs a crouch button. Maybe in doom 3 it will, such as crouching behind a box or something to hide from an enemy. However I just don't think doomguy needs to crouch.

Bah, crouch can be fun, but in a lot of games it's just there because it can be.

I hope id make it a worthwhile addition to the game play and don't just put in low height corridors, and the ever-present-in-FPS-games ducting because they have a crouch.

However, I thought the lack of a use key in Quake was a huge mistake, It really, really pisses me off having doors, switches and whatever else activate simply because I happen to be standing nearby. For me it goes a long way to spoiling the gameplay. It can't be an accident that despite it being years since Quake was released, game developers are still putting use keys in their games - even the ones based on id engines.

DooMBoy said:

He has been the mastermind (or one of the masterminds) behind some of the most played, most revered, most widely copied games of all time.

Baldy said
mastermind? he's a fricking programmer! he programs! game designers come up with game designs, at least when they're allowed to.

Heh, where is it written that the programmers can't contribute more to the project than programming? Look at John Romero, he coded DoomEd (as well as some of the Doom engine) and yet he did quite a few of the E1 maps himself.
And you can't tell me that John Carmack didn't contribute some ideas for Doom.

I totally agree with Enjay.. The Use Key was vital for Doom deathmatch, being able to open/close doors at will, bring down lifts at crazy angles(like mid-air), or trimping off of a ledge with any sort of platform that has a switch... you just don't have that type of control in quake. I hated quake for that. By not including a use-key, multiplayer will lose a lot of strategic elements that i loved about the original doom gameplay. I'm worried that Doom3's multiplayer will be a little lacking, hopefully not.

It would probably be better to activate things by focusing crosshairs or just having it on the center of the screen within realistic distance to activate them. That way there is no use key and you can't activate it by accident. But in this case there might be an inconvenient delay to make sure it's not an accident.

What a shame! Not having a use key severely limits the options of the game because you cannot have hidden switches or secret doors that have to be manually opened. There are a lot of other options that are not possible anymore. Let's just hope it doesn't destroy the game. This particular ridiculousness ruined the Quake games for me...

So it's probably one game less to buy... :-(

Graf Zahl said:

Not having a use key severely limits the options of the game because you cannot have hidden switches or secret doors that have to be manually opened.

Yeah, I agree. A lot of the secrets in the Quake games were just stumbled upon, or a bit of a let down when you opened a door by accident, or just too obvious that they had to be shot. There is a place for secrets that you find by going down an almost invisible corridor in a dark corner, or ducking under a pool of water and I would not expect them to be "use" activated, but simple hidden cupboard type secrets just seem a bit cheap unless you have to do something interactive to find them.

DooMBoy said:

Heh, where is it written that the programmers can't contribute more to the project than programming? Look at John Romero, he coded DoomEd (as well as some of the Doom engine) and yet he did quite a few of the E1 maps himself.
And you can't tell me that John Carmack didn't contribute some ideas for Doom.

uh, john romero is a game designer who helped out a bit on the programming. most game designers CAN program as well, since companies don't like to hire game designers with no programming experience. carmack on the other hand got into the industry for his programming skills. he's as far from a game designer as you can get. basically he just does what his game designers want him to. although he probably contributed somewhat to the design of quake3 and doom3 because game designers don't really have that much of a say at id anymore.

sargebaldy said:

although he probably contributed somewhat to the design of quake3 and doom3 because game designers don't really have that much of a say at id anymore.

You're trolling again.

Take a hint. Shut the fuck up.

Arioch said:

You're trolling again.

Take a hint. Shut the fuck up.

He's just saying his opinion, and on top of that he isn't doing it in any vulgar or even rude manner (unlike you for example). So unless trolling these days consists of just saying something someone else doesn't agree with he did nothing wrong.

Arioch said:

You're trolling again.

Take a hint. Shut the fuck up.

He wasn't trolling, he was merely stating his opinion.

It becomes trolling when every single fucking time he posts in a Doom 3 thread he plays like a goddamned broken record.

I'm putting my foot down.

if this is a doom3 thread it shouldn't be marked in the news as general. i have dw set for 'classic doom' news only, and avoid the doom3 forums. in fact if someone could kindly make the doom3 forums invisible to me, i'd appreciate it.

Then I'm going to let you off just this time.

But if you refuse to actually learn anything by reading the approprimate material, and instead insist on remaining ignorant just so you can spout your little spiel on game design at id software, then I'm going to ban you.

Consider that your final warning.

Hey wow, since when can you get banned for having a different opinion than someone?

Well, only when the person you disagree with is an admin or a mod I guess.

Nanami said:

Hey wow, since when can you get banned for having a different opinion than someone?

Well, only when the person you disagree with is an admin or a mod I guess.

i disagree. mostly because if i don't i'm going to get banned.

Well I'll probably get banned for saying that, but that's okay.

Nanami said:

Well I'll probably get banned for saying that, but that's okay.

No worries, you're female. :P

Presenting an opinion is fine.

Repeatedly presenting erroneous assumptions as fact despite clear and obvious send-ups from other posters (and not just me) constitutes trolling.

Like what you're doing, Nanami. And don't think I won't ban you just because you can play the tittie card. Because honestly, so can most of the guys in here.

Must... derail... thread... Must summon... all.... newdoom... thread derailing powers.... :p

So as game design and creation has become easier in the last 5 years, and the id engines have gone GPL, do you think that more communities will start creating their own games ( Eg. Freedoom ) and thusly become self-sustaining?

Alright if that's the best I can do I obviously need to make some coffee.

Arioch said:

You're trolling again.

Take a hint. Shut the fuck up.

If he's really trolling I only see one person biting. (Sorry Arioch, but that was just too darn tempting :) ).

Little Faith said:

If he's really trolling I only see one person biting. (Sorry Arioch, but that was just too darn tempting :) ).

Arioch is right! So that makes two! Happy now? (sorry, but that was too darn tempting as well).

I kinda understand why Arioch is upset, although he should have responded in a more civilized manner. Watching Sargebaldy post his exagerrated "opinion" for the 1000th time, thereby attempting to reopen a pointless discussion got on my nerves as well. Everybody got his say at least a dozen times already on the topic and nobody is gonnna change his opinion, so why bring it up again? It looks like trolling to me.