ukiro Posted September 7, 2003 Whats the largest file size of any WAD, in terms of map data? I'm just talking MAPxx, THINGS, LINEDEFS, SIDEDEFS, VERTEXES, SEGS, SSECTORS, NODES, SECTORS, REJECT and BLOCKMAP. No textures, flats, sprites, scripts, sounds, midi or other data. I recall seeing one a while back that was over 3 megs, but I'm curious about which one is THE largest. 0 Share this post Link to post
Fredrik Posted September 7, 2003 http://www.doomworld.com/idgames/index.php?id=11518 0 Share this post Link to post
Tormentor667 Posted September 7, 2003 TNT3 Map01 is very large. Here is some data: http://tormentor667.covers.de/Tormentor667/images/doom/tnt3/mapoverview.jpg It's not as detailed as Vrack and Europa is, but it is very large 0 Share this post Link to post
ukiro Posted September 7, 2003 Tormentor667 said:TNT3 Map01 is very large. Here is some data: You must have mixed up LINEDEFS and SIDEDEFS, because it can't have more linedefs than sidedefs, now can it? :-) ...or is that the disk size in bytes for these things? Still doesn't quite make sense. The one I'm working on, which is like 10% done, has 729 sectors right now, so I imagine a really large one would have like 4000 or more. Past that you'll be running into the WAD format SIDEDEF limit (32768), somewhat depending on your style of mapping. So, if my 10% estimate is right, I cannot finish it due to format limitations :-/ (as if I will have the enrgy to build that much in the first place...) 0 Share this post Link to post
Tormentor667 Posted September 7, 2003 Maybe I mixed something up :| My fault... 0 Share this post Link to post
Shaviro Posted September 7, 2003 RTC-3057 map02 stats: 3855 sectors 13155 lines 27261 sides Raw map size: 3.2 megs. All these numbers will most likely more than double before it's done. That is: ~8000 sectors ~28000 lines ~56000 sides ~7 megs 0 Share this post Link to post
Manc Posted September 7, 2003 Thatsa spicy meataball! /me waits in anticipation for RTC... 0 Share this post Link to post
ukiro Posted September 7, 2003 Shaviro said:All these numbers will most likely more than double before it's done. That is: ~8000 sectors ~28000 lines ~56000 sides ...so ZDoom can read WADs which have more than 32768 sidedefs? That limit is a part of the WAD file format and not the engine, so I thought no engine had solved that. and anyway, I'm mainly interested stuff that's built, not stuff thats PLANNED ;-) 0 Share this post Link to post
ukiro Posted September 7, 2003 nevermind, cyb pointed out the ZDoom linedef limit is vastly higher than for other engines. 0 Share this post Link to post
Hirogen2 Posted September 7, 2003 vrack2 and eaeuro03. tnt3 is nothing compared to that, it's just slow too because of that much snow. 0 Share this post Link to post
Fredrik Posted September 7, 2003 ukiro said:You must have mixed up LINEDEFS and SIDEDEFS, because it can't have more linedefs than sidedefs, now can it? :-)Actually, you can have vastly more linedefs than sidedefs, by compressing the sidedefs. 0 Share this post Link to post
ukiro Posted September 7, 2003 Hirogen2 said:vrack2 and eaeuro03. Vrack2b is 2309kb for map data only, eaeuro03 is 2978. But as I said I recall seeing something over 3 megs once... 0 Share this post Link to post
Cyb Posted September 7, 2003 the only editor that actually supports zdoom's insane limits (ie limits > than any other port) is deepsea as far as I know (doom builder?) 0 Share this post Link to post
Lüt Posted September 7, 2003 This one Millennium map I've been doing has about 50,000 sides so far, but it's not complete yet. Once I make some fixes to my last level it'll probably at least as big. And then, who knows, maybe it'll even be released. 0 Share this post Link to post
ukiro Posted September 7, 2003 Lüt said:This one Millennium map I've been doing has about 50,000 sides so far, but it's not complete yet. Once I make some fixes to my last level it'll probably at least as big. And then, who knows, maybe it'll even be released. aah, and what editor do you use? Cybs comment there made me curious... oh, and FINISH THAT THING ALREADY, I want to see millennium. 0 Share this post Link to post
Lüt Posted September 7, 2003 ukiro said:aah, and what editor do you use? Cybs comment there made me curious... DeepSea :P 0 Share this post Link to post
NiGHTMARE Posted September 7, 2003 ukiro said:...so ZDoom can read WADs which have more than 32768 sidedefs? That limit is a part of the WAD file format and not the engine, so I thought no engine had solved that.IIRC, ZDoom's doubled it (i.e. 65536). Don't forget that ZDoom's level formatting stuffage is significantly different than the standard Doom one (being based as it is on Hexen's). Every other port I know of (besides ones based on ZDoom, obviously) still just uses the standard level format. 0 Share this post Link to post
Lüt Posted September 7, 2003 NiGHTMARE said:IIRC, ZDoom's doubled it (i.e. 65536) Last I heard, somebody told me "if you hit a limit, let us know". Apparently it should handle maps of any size. 0 Share this post Link to post
Shaviro Posted September 7, 2003 NiGHTMARE said:IIRC, ZDoom's doubled it (i.e. 65536) Don't forget that ZDoom's level formatting stuffage is significantly different than the standard Doom one (being based as it is on Hexen's). I sure hope DoomBuilder will be able to handle levels that big. btw: Get on IRC, nick! :) 0 Share this post Link to post
Fredrik Posted September 7, 2003 Lüt said:Last I heard, somebody told me "if you hit a limit, let us know". Apparently it should handle maps of any size. The limit can't be higher than 65536. 65536 is the amount of different combinations that can be stored in a 16-bit integer, and 16-bit ints is what Doom uses for its levels. 0 Share this post Link to post
Cyb Posted September 7, 2003 yeah, numbering of lines, sectors etc etc are stored in unsigned shorts in wad files, so the limit is actually 65536 sidedefs since linedefs need to store the correct numbers of corresponding sidedefs. also, while zdoom nativly runs maps in hexen format, you can still build standard doom format maps up to this size, though zdoom will be the only port that can actually run it even though it's in the correct format for ports like prboom and eternity zdoom is also the only port to support blockmaps over the size of the original exe, which I'm sure will come in handy if you make a map with 65536 sidedefs :P 0 Share this post Link to post
Fredrik Posted September 7, 2003 so the limit is actually 65536 sidedefs since linedefs need to store the correct numbers of corresponding sidedefs.Not quite true. You'll run into the linedef limit before you run into the sidedef limit if you pack the sidedefs. Also, you'll hit 65536 segs before you reach 65536 lines or sides. zdoom is also the only port to support blockmaps over the size of the original exe, which I'm sure will come in handy if you make a map with 65536 sidedefs :PNot true either. Doom's blockmap limit of 64K was raised to 128K in Boom, iirc :P 0 Share this post Link to post
Tormentor667 Posted September 7, 2003 Hirogen2 said:vrack2 and eaeuro03. tnt3 is nothing compared to that, it's just slow too because of that much snow. Yes, TNT3 Map01 has only 1,3MB raw data 0 Share this post Link to post
Cyb Posted September 7, 2003 Fredrik said:Not quite true. You'll run into the linedef limit before you run into the sidedef limit if you pack the sidedefs. Also, you'll hit 65536 segs before you reach 65536 lines or sides. Not true either. Doom's blockmap limit of 64K was raised to 128K in Boom, iirc :P well of course there are other factors that play into the limits, I'm simply saying the absolute upper limit of sidedefs is 65536. Segs may not come into play with zdoom either, because it builds nodes on a version of the wad in memory which I imagine doesn't have to be limited to the wad format (though I'm pretty sure it is, since you can dump the map to a wad file). Vertices are also limited to 65536 in amount for instance but some extras get added during the nodes process. However you are wrong about the Boom thing. From teamtnt's page: Blockmap limit increased from 32K to 64K (was 32K in linux port) without requiring wad changes not quite sure what zdoom's blockmap limit is offhand, I just know it can run maps that prboom chokes on (that recent map 'ultramarine' comes to mind). 0 Share this post Link to post
Fredrik Posted September 7, 2003 Ah. I didn't remember the right sizes for the blockmap, but at least I had it right that it had been changed in Boom already ;) 0 Share this post Link to post
The Ultimate DooMer Posted September 7, 2003 Industrial and CC map 29 (both by magikal) and Castevil.wad are the biggest I know. 0 Share this post Link to post
Gherkin Posted September 7, 2003 I dont think the latest version of DB is made to read that number of linedefs/sidedefs, but the next version will. 0 Share this post Link to post
Cyb Posted September 7, 2003 just out of curiosity I compiled some stats: cchest.wad (map29) Linedefs: 14950 Sidedefs: 24715 Sectors : 1421 vrack2b.wad Linedefs: 12575 Sidedefs: 21705 Sectors : 2516 eaeuro03.wad Linedefs: 15022 Sidedefs: 28142 Sectors : 2884 ultramarine.wad Linedefs: 15525 Sidedefs: 25963 Sectors : 2861 0 Share this post Link to post
Fletcher` Posted September 7, 2003 And just for the record I still have not gotten cc29 to work under any port. 0 Share this post Link to post