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Amaster

Doom3 article on SA

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Assmaster said:

http://www.somethingawful.com/

Of course, it's just humor. But Boruff brings up a good point about the flashlight.


What's the point?
If it's that you could easily carry a weapon while using the flashlight then wow! Way to point out the obvious. It's a gameplay decision. Anyways, the article is unfunny...just like SA in general.

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Well, I could understand not being able to swing the flashlight effectively as a weapon while weilding another, but it seems a little silly not to be able to use it at all while carrying something as small as a pistol. Of course, it may end up being differet once the game is released.

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Assmaster said:

Well, I could understand not being able to swing the flashlight effectively as a weapon while weilding another, but it seems a little silly not to be able to use it at all while carrying something as small as a pistol. Of course, it may end up being differet once the game is released.


They want you to choose between "darkness and weapons" and "light and no weapons". Simple as that.

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As far as being a gameplay decision, it could have been just as effective to dissallow it's use when weilding certain (stronger) weapons.

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Assmaster said:

Well, I could understand not being able to swing the flashlight effectively as a weapon while weilding another, but it seems a little silly not to be able to use it at all while carrying something as small as a pistol. Of course, it may end up being differet once the game is released.


1. We've had this discussion before and last time it ended up more or less going down in flames, so why make a new thread on this subject? I don't regard the SA article as a valid reason to resurrect an old (and dare I say 'unwanted') discussion.

2. Understand that this is a gameplay decision based on playtesting and on overall scope - I'm pretty sure the id guys played around with having the flashlight mounted on weapons, but then they decided that it was less fun to have that amount of freedom, so they imposed the limitation.
In a game, fun factor always becomes before realism factor, so naturally, the designers would rather sacrifice a small realism aspect (yes, I said "small") for an improved gameplay experience.

Whining about this decision is actually quite pointless in the end, since you haven't been playtesting the thing yourself. End of story.

As far as being a gameplay decision, it could have been just as effective to dissallow it's use when weilding certain (stronger) weapons.

Ummm......
no.
Even using the pistol in conjunction with the flashlight would give you some safety feeling - if you're surprised by weak enemies like zombies, getting rid of the threat (i.e. killing it) would be way too easy.
This gameplay feature enables you to make a choice, which is the cool thing about it.

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Assmaster said:

As far as being a gameplay decision, it could have been just as effective to dissallow it's use when weilding certain (stronger) weapons.


Nope. The Pistol is not a melee weapon.

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Assmaster said:

I was not aware that this had been discussed before.

http://www.doomworld.com/vb/showthread.php?threadid=18042 - big time flamewar! Don't let it happen again!
http://www.doomworld.com/vb/showthread.php?threadid=18067

Anyways, the article is unfunny...just like SA in general

Awww, that's not fair! SA has some hilarious movie reviews. Bad movie reviews rock :-P

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Assmaster said:

I was not aware that this had been discussed before. Hell it if you like.


No. I'm not going to silence people. If they feel like discussing this subject, they should be allowed to. It's not like there's a 1000 active threads around here. If people do not want to discuss this, it will simply be buried by the other posts. Besides...there's an article to discuss.

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I think the article is quite funny. They do make a good point, although I'd understand why id wants us to either use the flashlight or a weapon. It's simply scarier that way.

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Thats pretty fucking dumb, why cant you carry a flashlight while holding another weapon, is this marine suppose to be mentaly challenged?.

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It's a gameplay decision. Is a plumber who gather gold coins and jump on mushrooms/animals all his life considered batshit insane, IYO? Yet SMB went on to become the best-selling videogame in history, with over 50 million copies sold.

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Ohh christ not the flashlight again........

Look:
Why can't marine fire two pistols at once? NOT PART OF GAME
Why can't marine lob a grenage whilst shooting? NPOG
Why can't marine use night vision all the time? NPOG
Why can't marine operate machinery while shooting? NPOG
Why can't marine throw barrell back at zombie while shooting? NPOG
Why can't marine shoot while using flashlight? NPOG
Why can't marine have a wank while using flashlight? NPOG

Just a game folks, better and scarier this way? Yes.
I bet the logic behind the situation was.....

"It's a shame we have a flashlight 'cos the really creepy areas kinda get ruined by it....enemy surprise factor kinda suffers"
"Lets get rid of flashlight?"
"No, we need it for this bit and that bit....and anyway...it looks cool cutting through shadows"
"Okay then what do we do about it...how do we increase scariness while played is using flashlight?"
"I know, how about this: The player can't use weapons when using flashlight"
"Good idea but what happens if they are attacked, we can't leave them totally defenseless"
"How's about we turn flashlight into melee weapon....they can give enemy a good whollop of the flashlight giving them a second or two to switch back to their weapon..."
"Great idea....lets run with that"

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You know, it's kinda ridiculous that the hero has a grenade launcher as a separate weapon in the Quake games, since modern grenade launchers tend to be attached to other guns, so why didn't id make a grenade launcher attached to some other gun?

Simplicity and arguably that a seperate gren launcher feels more like a cool weapon of its own that looks better.

Nowadays I wouldn't ever want id to adopt the HL-or-equivalent model of having a gren launcher attached to a weapon - I'm perfectly happy with the separate gren launcher thing, because of its particular charm.

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Lord FlatHead said:

gameplay > realism

Dubh said:

Ohh christ not the flashlight again........

etc.

Flawless agruments, especially Dubh's. End of discussion. ; )

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....Grenade Launcher as its own weapon......

What do you expect...since when has id used secondary fires?

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Agreed, i don't like secondary fire half the time, seems a waste imo, if your gonna shoot something just shoot it. Plus the grenade launcher in Q2 was one of my Favs, don't change a good thing. :D

ID have been in the game industry a LONG time, im sure they know what makes good game mechanics, i trust them on this flashlight issue, sounds fun, i mean yeah we could have the a pistol in one hand, but wheres the fun in that, i remember trying to punch the cyber demon for kicks...

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Dubh said:

....Grenade Launcher as its own weapon......

What do you expect...since when has id used secondary fires?

Just to clarify, I made my above post to put things in perspective - to compare people's complaints about the flashlight to the grenade launcher thing. It was just to show that by their logic, the Quake grenade launchers would be retarded too.

Of course I don't think the grenade launcher as a separate weapon is stupid :-P

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Lord FlatHead said:

gameplay > realism


Flawed statement as realism is a big part of how the game plays. That's like saying Everything > Something, where something is obviously a part of everything.

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Shaviro said:

Flawed statement as realism is a big part of how the game plays. That's like saying Everything > Something, where something is obviously a part of everything.

The statement isn't flawed. Quite obviously (depending on how you define 'bigger', of course) everything is bigger than something.

What I meant was, the whole package is more important than the individual details.

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Hey, you have to admit SA has hilarious photoshop threads. However them criticsizing games is laughable since honestly I haven't met a single person from SA who's even close to skilled in any form of video gaming :P

Anyway, the id guys are just mean. They're going for pure scare factor, and what's more scary, shining a flashlight in a corner to see a nasty beast demon staring at ya, and having a pistol to defend yourself - or having to put it away and shoot blindly in the dark, having only "lightning moments" of light to see the demon tearing into you? :D

Now, what they should implement is some way to make it so if you flick your mouse too fast (i.e. jump in your seat) then you should drop the flashlight. heheh...

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Heh, I found the suggestion that your main character may be handicapped to be particularly humorous. But that made me wonder. How many games exist that have handicapped main characters (or villains for that matter)? I know of one game (reviewed on SA) that featured a diabetic hero. And NARC had a villain in a wheelchair. Are there any others?

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Assmaster said:

Heh, I found the suggestion that your main character may be handicapped to be particularly humorous. But that made me wonder. How many games exist that have handicapped main characters (or villains for that matter)? I know of one game (reviewed on SA) that featured a diabetic hero. And NARC had a villain in a wheelchair. Are there any others?

In Trespasser you played a woman with just one arm (not joking).

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Assmaster said:

How many games exist that have handicapped main characters (or villains for that matter)? ...Are there any others?


Caleb from Blood... he´s dead.

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Volkov from No One Lives Forever 2. He's in NOLF1 but in NOLF2 he's covered in plaster and confined to a wheelchair for the whole game. No One Lives Forever = Funny games.

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