Fragport: forum demo project

I'd like to suggest Ultimate DooMer's Fragport megawad for a community demo project.

Many of the maps are quite tough, but not unreasonably so, and I'd guess that there aren't many where a UV Max demo should take more than ten minutes. There are some maps (at least one, anyway) where presumably 100% kills won't be possible, but we can handle those on an ad hoc basis (either with a UV Speed or by making it as close to Max as possible).

Ultimate DooMer tells me that he has already recorded a demo on Map32, which means we don't have to worry about that rather awkward map. :)

To get (or rather keep) the ball rolling, I have recorded a demo on map13 (UV Max in 7:02 5:39 - first third exit). It's here.

Note that Fragport has recently been updated; please use the version dated 24-Nov-0322-Mar-04 (don't worry; the changes made in this version don't affect demos recorded before that date).

[Note: the attachment issue is still unresolved, and AFAIK there is no solution imminent (though I might be completely wrong about that). Therefore either upload any demos to your own webspace or e-mail them to Opulent or myself, and we'll upload them to http://www.doomworld.com/sda/dwdemo.]

We now have UV Max demos for all 32 maps and are into the wrapping-up stage.
Map01: Erik
Map02: VinceDSS
Map03: VinceDSS
Map04: Kristian Ronge
Map05: Angus Thermopyle
Map06: Angus Thermopyle
Map07: Angus Thermopyle (or Torn?)
Map08: Erwin Lin (DragonKnight Zero)
Map09: Ultimate DooMer
Map10: VinceDSS
Map11: Erwin Lin (DragonKnight Zero)
Map12: Angus Thermopyle
Map13: Grazza
Map14: Ryback
Map15: Ryback
Map16: VinceDSS
Map17: Ultimate DooMer
Map18: Grazza
Map19: VinceDSS
Map20: Grazza
Map21: Donce
Map22: Angus Thermopyle
Map23: Angus Thermopyle
Map24: Donce
Map25: cycloid
Map26: VinceDSS
Map27: VinceDSS
Map29: VinceDSS
Map28: Angus Thermopyle
Map30: VinceDSS
Map31: Donce
Map32: Ultimate DooMer

I am doing map01 atm. I have 4:36, but I will try until I have a low 4:xx

Alright, I have map01 in 4:01. I'll mail it in a little while.

edit: sent to Grazza

fr01-401.zip

In which case I'll put up the two demos I've done so far: map 17 in 12:26 and map 32 in 29:25. Both are done with Legacy 1.41 and are a bit messy in places (I'll try and improve them).

BTW: may I suggest using 'fp' instead of 'fr' if it's not already a notation for something else?

(and before you ask it's nothing to do with the forumism, I've always abbreviated it fp)

Here they are. Once I've recorded better versions of them I'll send them to Grazza.

(if you can't access the page let me know, as I've not been able to access any geocities sites for a few days now - even though I'm able to work on the site)

I don't believe that either fr or fp have been used in any previous naming convention. I guess I instinctively avoided fp because some people might tend to link it mentally with pacifist, and since fr seems most natural, given that there is no special reason to avoid it.

Actually, there seem to be very few demos starting with f generally, so it might make sense to adopt a naming convention as follows:
fr - UV Max and Speed
fn - NM
fp - UV Pacifist
fs - NM 100S
ft - UV Tyson
fe - UV -respawn
ff - UV -fast
None of those have been previously used AFAIK. Doing it this way leaves four digits for the time (whereas, e.g., fr13fxxx or fp13fxxx leaves only three).

BTW, I've improved map13 UV Max to 5:49, but it's still a bit sucky, and I should be able to improve it a fair bit in due course.

Does this mean Ultimate Doomer isn't going to rerelease fragport ever again..?

He confirmed to me that this is definitely intended as the final version.

Yep, indeed it is. (although I did find a texture misalignment in map 17 and it could use some ZDoom features....just kidding lol)

TUD, Grazza and Erik, nice job on the demos. Some damn tough maps in the series. great to see them done by some talented players.

So you can get them off my site, then?

(must be something at my end that's fux0ring it up)

The Ultimate DooMer said:

So you can get them off my site, then?

(must be something at my end that's fux0ring it up)

I had no problem at all getting them off your site. Maybe someone else that got them will reply. I got them yesterday I think. This day has been a blurrrrrrrrrr.

Edit: just tried it again. went there, got the clicky, got the demos again. no problem.

Might Geocities be blocking access for Hotmail users? There seems to be a lot of petty tit-for-tat blocking of e-mails by ISPs at the moment, so this would be natural escalation.

Searcher: thanks for the comments, though I so far haven't managed to deal with those archies in a way that looks very talented (the 5:49 is still really bad in that respect). Edit: replaced with a 5:39 - I was aiming for 5:30 or better, but I don't think it's too bad.

UD: I got the demos OK, and they both play back fine.

I'd like to do the Laser Quest level, I'm pretty sure it's 16 but I might be wrong (I just hope it's not 17) since I know that level like the back of my hand and could do an awesome demo of it.

That one is map17, I'm afraid. You could record a different category on it: UV -fast or UV -respawn perhaps.

Well damn. I'll think about it. Personaly I don't like fast or respawn.

Grazza said:

Might Geocities be blocking access for Hotmail users? There seems to be a lot of petty tit-for-tat blocking of e-mails by ISPs at the moment, so this would be natural escalation.

Searcher: thanks for the comments, though I so far haven't managed to deal with those archies in a way that looks very talented (the 5:49 is still really bad in that respect).

UD: I got the demos OK, and map17 plays back fine (haven't watched map32 yet).

Could be, although it still lets me log in and edit the site, the only thing it won't let me do is visit any pages (I can still preview them though).

In which case, is this a permanent thing?

No idea; I was guessing (I just did a Google search for geocities+blocking+hotmail but didn't see anything totally conclusive). If that is the case, I can't imagine that these ISPs will be permanently at each others' throats - they'd just end up destroying each other.

What is becoming clear to me though is that everyone now needs to have several e-mail addresses, since at any one time there will be some ISP that is blocking some other ISP.

Skunkboy Kyle said:

I'd like to do the Laser Quest level, I'm pretty sure it's 16 but I might be wrong (I just hope it's not 17) since I know that level like the back of my hand and could do an awesome demo of it.

I can't think of one reason why you couldn't do any map you care to. It doesn't matter if there are more than one run on any given level. It may not make it into the demo pack but it would still be shared here on the forum, and that is what this forum is all about.

Yes, of course, people can record whatever they like. However, the way these forum demopacks have worked so far (and to general approval, I believe) is that someone chooses a map, and as long as they successfully record a demo, then that map/category is "theirs" from the point of view of the demopack - how much they work on improving their time is up to them. This should have the benefit of encouraging more people to get involved, since they needn't worry that they'll get their hard work bumped out of the demopack.

If people don't like that arrangement, please say so.

I am trying a maxer for map07, however the vines area is annoying :/
Easy to miss enemies there.

Grazza said:

Yes, of course, people can record whatever they like. However, the way these forum demopacks have worked so far (and to general approval, I believe) is that someone chooses a map, and as long as they successfully record a demo, then that map/category is "theirs" from the point of view of the demopack - how much they work on improving their time is up to them. This should have the benefit of encouraging more people to get involved, since they needn't worry that they'll get their hard work bumped out of the demopack.

If people don't like that arrangement, please say so.

While I don't plan to participate, I believe the current arrangements are fine. We set them up that way because this is a demo forum NOT a competition - repeat 'NOT A COMPETITION'. What good would it do to have five people record demos and then have a player like Ratcliff submit faster demos and eliminate all five entries. Firstly, that would be kind of stupid and secondly, the five players would have no incentive to record another demo.

The only rule we implimentated was: The first to reserve a 'single' level, AND they must post a note to identify and reserve the level, held the rights to record that level within a time deemed reasonable by the other players and a player COULD NOT reserve more than one level.

A reasonable time is one that does not hold up the completion of the demoset within a time agreed to by the players. Regarding a near-completed demoset, I would think a week would be sufficient time to complete any outstanding demos as these are not competition variety.

In otherwords, if 9 demos are completed in a 10 level demoset then the individual with the outstanding demo has 7 days from the completion of the 9th demo otherwise someone else can choose to do it.

Remember, this is suppose to be fun. Make it competitive and you plant the seeds for its' demise as far as the non-compet-n player is concerned. Who wants to submit a demo only to have a compet-n player make their effort look ridicules?

I personally prefer the more competetive way of making demopacks, but that's just me. If my demo gets jacked by some Vile run, so what? it's all for the better in the long run and people can still watch my demo if they really want to.

Meh, I'd hate to do something like that unless it was provoked on me to begin with. The touchiness is always there and I'm familiar with the backlash (ask AdamW about that; it doesn't matter if your run is good, if it beat one of his records, he'd still hate it).

Well, I hereby give you all permission to beat up on any of my runs on these forums as much as you want, I won't take ANY personal offence at all.

Whatever Erik. :)

I don't feel much like recording nowadays anyhow. I have a lot of other games lying around ATM.

I suppose the question is whether we are trying to encourage new people to record.

If it's the same bunch of hardened demo nuts each time (i.e. we get to something like the DSF used to be), then a more "competitive" method might make sense, if that's what the people involved prefer. Even then, I don't see it as truly competitive. I mean, was the Scythe demopack really a competitive thing, or was it just a bunch of guys trying to make the best demopack they could between them?

BTW, I'm always delighted to see Vile (or one of the other top Doomers) playing a map on which I have previously recorded, especially if he uses any of my route ideas. And when his Max times beat my Speed times, I just laugh. :)

No it's usually some kind of friendly competition where people respect each-others runs, especially if the person has very few demos currently in the pack and so on. Some people don't care though and others can take more or less offence of course (Henning beating AdamW's only run in the AV pack comes to mind ;)

OK, no problem, so if we don't want a competition on a given level recording. Then there is certainly no reason that anyone could not post a run in a different thread even if the demo pack slot was already taken, just to share.

Otherwise it does no good to have the forum open to any member who wants to share a demo, no matter how good or bad. If it were rejected then the demo forum would not be truely open.

Edit: To clarify, I am only commenting on the fact that the forum should be open to all, not that the new demo should kick out one of the other demos from the demo pack. I am pretty sure we can all agree with that.

The current arrangement is fine - after all how else can demo n00bs like me get in on the action?

BTW, I'd like to reserve map 09.

BTW2, we need the 'who has what map' list on the first post.

Skunkboy Kyle said:

Well damn. I'll think about it. Personaly I don't like fast or respawn.

And you especially won't like it on map 17.

Grazza said:

was the Scythe demopack really a competitive thing, or was it just a bunch of guys trying to make the best demopack they could between them?

I was a newb when the Scythe demopack was started. I did my first demo, a Map07 maxrun, and it was beaten by Adam Hegyi a few days later. I was not angry about him, cause my demo was damn slow (no, I was proud, that the great AdamH did it :)
Look at the DSDA Scythe table and the C-N demopack thread, I think it was competitive (at least in the first month).
BTW. It was not only me, whose demos were beaten by the veterans/doomgods. I took my "revenge" and improved some of Altima's or Opulent's (sorry, Doug :) runs.

Overall, it was a great time. I had much fun. And I hope all the guys will come together again, when Scythe II is out.

PS. I don't know if I'll record Fragport stuff. Perhaps some speedruns, but not in 2003. I wish you all a happy new year!!!