Comments / Ideas?

My idea of a good review is one that is accurate and helpful, not necessarilly lauditory, so thanks, Ultimate Doomer, for your good review of my two offerings this time around, Compound 13 and the first few levels of Doom-X.

No one ever liked C-13 that much, for one reason or another, including me, so we'll forget that one and consign it to the oblivion it deserves. (Of course, anyone reading this is free to try it out and make up their own mind.) I originally did it as a DM wad, so maybe it'll work that way. Those of you who want to comment may do so, and maybe I won't let it slide into oblivion after all, depending.

Doom-X, on the other hand, I have some hopes for, so anyone wanting a bit of "Old School" gameplay might try it and tell me if they have any specific ideas for improving it, other than those Ultimate Doomer has already pointed out, such as too much health, etc. The more specific you can make your comments, the better. (Please try to stay away from replys such as "It sucks!" since they don't contain enough information to be helpful, however accurate they might be.

And I should point out that the maps making up this offering are only the first few of a nine-level replacement for Classic Doom, which was mentioned in the text file but didn't make it into the description, so they should be judged accordingly. I'm trying to follow the original in that the levels start out small and easy, growing in size and difficulty as the game progresses.

Mention was made about areas that a player doesn't need to go into as if that's a drawback, but I say why not? In my defense, let me add that I think exploration is fun and worthwhile in and of itself, but could be I'm missing the point. I missed a point once a long time ago, and since then I've lived in terror that someday I might miss another. Could be this is the day. This is definately one of the items I'd like comments on.

As for my lower than usual detail, I'll have to check out some more of the new wads here on Doomworld to see what a good amount of detail looks like. Not that I've been living under a rock; I've downloaded and played though quite a few maps from this site that reviewers have given high marks to, and a lot of them seem less detailed than mine. Obviously, they got praised on other merits. Others seem overwhelmingly and uselessly detailed to my eyes, but I don't remember a reviewer marking them down for it, so maybe that's what's expected. If anyone wants to recommend any wads as examples of good detail by today's standards, please let me know. I don't have much time to spend these days on game-playing, so I want to use what time I have to the best advantage.

And lastly, Ultimate Doomer accused my levels of being confusing, although he didn't specify which ones. Comments on that will be especially appreciated. Also, my use of transporters was intentional, so as to make it as easy as possible for players to get around the larger maps without retracing their steps. He's referring to Level 3 and maybe 9, since the smaller ones, 1 & 2, don't make much - if any - use of transporters. The chief reasons I placed them is because it irks me to to run back and forth through the same area to get things accomplished and because sometimes one needs a quick escape. They could be useful in DM, as well, though none of my maps have been tested for that. So there's something else to comment on...

Don't knock yourselves out, but if anyone wants to take the time to give Doom-X (Part 1) a run-through and give me some feedback, I'd really appreciate it. Thanks!

ob3kenob said:

Mention was made about areas that a player doesn't need to go into as if that's a drawback, but I say why not? In my defense, let me add that I think exploration is fun and worthwhile in and of itself, but could be I'm missing the point. I missed a point once a long time ago, and since then I've lived in terror that someday I might miss another. Could be this is the day. This is definately one of the items I'd like comments on.

I think this is usually an excellent feature in a level myself, as long as it's designed well so that it doesn't take the player long to get back on the main track.

Thanks, that's good to hear.

So how do you think I did?

I hadn't actually played your map - I was just reading the comments you made in this thread. I may end up playing it, but it's unlikely to be honest - I don't play many wads these days. How short/long is it?

i haven't played your maps either, but i'll second the 'exploration is good' bit. when i read the negative comment in the reviews about 'unnecessary areas', it didn't really sit well with me. i like things like that and advise you to continue making them. if i have some time soon, i'll download and play the maps.

Toxic: It's a string of four maps, actually: 1, 2, 3 & 9 (the secret level, accessed through #3). 1 & 2 are small, but the ones with the extra areas are 3 & 9, which are larger - but I wouldn't call them big maps, by any means. Half an hour to an hour should do the whole set, depending on how you play. At a guess, I'd say #3 is about the same size as the original E1M4/5.

If you can't find the time, don't worry.

PWW: I hope you can give them a go sometime. I'd love to know other people are playing them and (I hope) enjoying them.

I like the idea of areas on the map that are not vital to gameplay. A level must be able to lead a player in the right direction, but some fun and exploration must be added as well. Good thinking!

I'll tell you all what:

I held off uploading all nine of my levels because Level 4 hasn't been completed and still has a lot of work. But that wasn't really fair, considering the fact that they're all supposed to form a complete unit, and I do have an earlier version of Level 4 that I had discarded. I could use it as a placeholder until some future time, and you could have a chance to judge the really big levels in the game, 6 & 7, and tell me how well the extra areas work in them.

So why don't you hold off on playing Doom-X until next week, those of you who haven't already done so?

Wouldn't that be better?

Your silence is defening. I guess you're either too busy or are waiting for next week, but after running through the rest of the game I've decided to hold off a while before uploading it so as to give myself a chance to make it more challenging for today's players. After all, this started almost nine years ago, and expectations were lower then. Or players were more tolerent.

I'll still maintain the easy at first / progressively harder overall strategy, but making each level more of a squeak to get by. Actually, on UV, levels 6 & 7 are already tough. I keep getting killed off all the time. Maybe they're too tough! If anyone's interested in seeing what I've done now, rather than waiting a few weeks, just give me an address to where I can upload the game and I'll be glad to do so.

For the rest, look for it sometime in February, considering the workload that's already starting to pile up. Thanks for your interest! I hope the end product will be something we can all be proud of.

If you are making maps to get attention or praise for your work, you are into the wrong game for sure. If the satisfaction of making something for yourself isn't enough, it's not worth it.

I'm doing it for myself, but having other people enjoy what I do is the icing on the cake. We are artists here, working in a brand new medium, and like conventional artists, creating is what we'd do even if no one (besides ourselves) ever saw our work, but what artist doesn't want his/her work hanging in a museum? What Doom wad designer doesn't want their wad to be Wad of the Week?

Besides, this is community art, in the sense that it's meant to be played and shared by many - it's not fulfilling it's function if it exists only on one obscure hard drive.

Plus, no one's perfect. I might think my wads are the ne plus ultra, but what if they could be better? I'll never know unless I put them out there into the world and let other people experience them.

After all, that's the point isn't it?

So, yes, I do them primarilly for my own satisfaction, or I'd never do them at all - but they're not really finished until other people get a bang out of them.

I like your philosophy there.

I decided since no one else would play your level, that I would.
So.. I played it and here's what I have to say about it:

Overall, the level gave me that nostalgic Doom feeling. It was fairly simple, even on UV, but then again it's only the first map, right?
Doors, lifts, and such were not marked by conventional textures and thus I had a hard time knowing what was a door, and what wasn't.
The level is way too symmetrical. with all the teleporters and such, most of the time I had to look on the automap just to see what hemisphere I was in. It alls looks the same, like one giant maze.
There were some texture misalignments, but the majority of texture problem occurred on the flat alignment. Some flats did not align properly with the walls. Sometimes the choice of flats was incoherent and did not match with other similar structures.
I did not find alot of these mentioned "dead ends" Every pathway had its purpose, either for getting more ammo, health, etc...

All in all, I would probably rate this level a 3 out of 5, because of some of the aforementioned flaws. Nothing too serious, but enough to make the level less enjoyable then it could be.

EarthQuake:

I'm assuming you are referring to my level "Compound 13" since you say "...it's only the first map, right?" It is just a stand-alone level and was never meant to be part of a larger scheme.

If you have the time, please play through the first three levels (and the secret level, #9) of my replacement for the original nine 'Classic' levels, "Doom-X" which is listed just below "Compound 13" on the Doomworld review page.

Or better yet, let me send you the entire thing, levels 1-9 inclusive, although level 4 is currently just a placeholder level. I will be uploading them sometime in the future, but want to finish level 4 first, so it may be a while. However, the version of #4 I'm using as a placeholder is not bad - it's just not a mine, and I have a more ambitious level that is a mine which will eventually replace it. I only include it so a player doesn't drop into the original Doom while getting to level 5. I believe you will find levels 6 and 7 a real challenge on UV, and maybe on some of the lower settings as well. I tried to emulate id's procedure of letting each level be more difficult than the last. So, can I use your email address, or is there a place I can FTP it to?

The whole thing might be a bit big as an email attachment, so a site would be preferable. You may contact me directly at ob3kenob@aol.com.

Thanks for your interest and your very helpful critique.

BTW, you said you played it because nobody else wanted to. How do you know for sure no one did? Not that I've gotten any direct feedback from anyone, such as I have from you...

What's the level you used as a base for E1M9? I've seen it used several times down the years (including Serenity E3M2), I was wondering where the original came from.

At first I thought you had me confused with someone else, because I didn't remember basing my E1M9 on anything, but it's been a while since I finished the major portion of work on it (6/7 years). Recently I checked it out for texture alignment and so forth, but I wasn't looking at it as anything but my own creation. So I just brought it up in Wad Author to check it against Serenity E3M2, and you know, you are right!

But darned if I can remember what other map it might have been. So far I haven't run into any others using the same base, which means, I'm sad to admit, that I have never played Serenity. For years I put all things Doom aside and only got around to being interested again with the advent of Doom III. Shame on me, but there it is. Now I will play Serenity - with great anticipation! I want to see how they made use of that layout. I'm sure to like mine better, but I'll give them a fair trial before hanging them. ;-[

If you can get in touch with Bjorn Hermans or Holger Nathrath, maybe one of them can remember. I'll try myself, but after all this time their addresses are probably 'way out of date. I'm hoping that you may have connections through Doomworld and/or other members that I don't have.

If I'm lucky and can find out for you, I'll drop you a line. If you're lucky, please do the same for me, since I want to give credit where credit's due. Of course, I can always say I based it on Serenity - not that it's true - but that still leaves your question unanswered.

BTW, it's a crushing blow to realize that my carefully wrought level is not completely original, after I'd been thinking it was all these years! Damn.

Still, I'm glad you brought it to my attention. I hope this matter can be resolved.

I just got two returned emails, as expected, reading "User Unknown." Sorry. Hope you'll have more luck. Otherwise, I'll have to give credit to the 'unknown genius' or lay low and hope no one else notices...

As, BTW, the two Serenity guys did!!

Phooey. My Doom-X E1M9 beats their Serenity E3m2 any day from a pistol start!

Post a poll. I dare you.

It might also be a good way to get an answer to your question.

ob3kenob said:

I just got two returned emails, as expected, reading "User Unknown." Sorry. Hope you'll have more luck. Otherwise, I'll have to give credit to the 'unknown genius' or lay low and hope no one else notices...

As, BTW, the two Serenity guys did!!

Don't worry, I think you'll be ok - chances are the author of the original map allowed it to be used as a base, given that quite a few old maps have done so. If stuck, just do what the Serenity guys did.

I've seen about 5 maps, all classic DooM 1 - Epi1best.wad E1M7, Serenity.wad E3M2, techbase.wad, your E1M9 and one other that I can't remember. (it possibly came off my D!1000 disc)

What I do remember is that all of the maps contain other parts as well as the unknown map, so none of those could be the original.

(the id of the original map is one of those great unsolved mysteries for me)

Thanks for the advice. Hereby laying low...

But if I ever do remember the source I'll email you ASAP, and that will be one great mystery you'll no longer have to worry about.

HEY! I just played partway through my E1M9, and in the grotto/poison pit area with the ledges you have to run around, the walls all say "Hard Way / Easy Way" with arrows, white on black!!!

How the Hell!??

It's supposed to be SP_ROCK1, which ironically is a texture I've been meaning to replace - but not with this!

Does the version on your servers also show this weird texture replacement? If so, delete it immediately, please, and I guess I mean the whole DoomX1-3 file, because I've used that texture throughout.

I've never seen this happen before! What the hell...!

Any ideas what might have happened?

OK - I think I see what happened. Textures from Serenity Wad somehow replaced textures in my main Doom file.

BRNVINE1 has also been replaced - with a beautiful mural of a winged creature. I admit, there Serenity has gotten ahead of me - I guess I'll have to get around to replacing some of the textures with ones of my own creation. Yeah, soon...whenever I can find the time.

Meanwhile, I'll have to delete and reload Doom.wad and hope for the best.

Problem solved. Damn Serenity, anyway!!