Is Romero the one behind id's affinity for controversy?

I was playing Quake I last night and I had totally forgotten how "hardcore" that game was.

There is so much satanic symbolism (and at a much higher level too) in that game. I like it, because it gives the game an over-the-top edge to it.

Let's consider it for a moment. The pentagram of protection, which gives your armor a nice red 666 rating, various pentagrams (some formed from blood stains), the bloody Jesus designs on the wall (not necessarilly Satanic, obviously, but it wouldn't take a genious to figure out that id didn't put it in the game out of reverence)... Even NIN did the sound and music, which has long been known as one of those "bands" that considered to be satanic, or at least extremely irreverent towards religion. There are probably more, but I've not played the game in a long time.

Anyway, DOOM obviously had some of this as well. And before DOOM, the swatztikas...

Anyway, the first game id made after Romero was fired was Quake II. When you go through Quake II, (if my memory serves me), you won't find any pentagrams, no upside down crosses, no bloody sculptures of Jesus... nothing controversial at all, except for the violence that is in basically all computer games.

Quake III brought about some of the imagery again, but the vibe about it seems so much less evil (at least it does to me) for some reason. Perhaps it's just because I'm desensitized.

But anyway, Romero was quite a character. I wonder if he was the one that took id down the road of displaying such graphic satanic imagery.

Hmm. Interesting.

quake II was not about demons and such. so penegrams dont seem to fit with strogos. the nazis returned in RTCW, who Id had a helping hand in makeing. Also i am sure doom III will have evil imagery.

quake III was about death match and not fighting demons. so it is really just a case of not makeing any recent games with evil as a theme

Well, Romero had a stepfather who got pretty violent with him, which probably influanced him quite a bit. His comics are a direct influance of that, obviously.

one of dad's girls was that way to me, so i returned the favor with a knife. hey i was only 11, had to defend my self. she didnt rat cause she was wanted for drugs, among other things, and she knew i also knew about that

Sephiroth said:

quake II was not about demons and such.

Neither was Quake I, unless you deliberately choose to interpret it that way.

And W - T - F are you TALKING about in your newest post?!

Yeah, Quake was about Elder Gods. Bit of a difference.

Quake is awsome.... DooM is the everything we stand for... and SaTan is god!
>:)
The first time I played quake I hated it. It took it a few months to grow on me.
The theme's of the games are what causes you to want to destroy, if they made these games with themes of an office building with pictures of the easter bunny they would not be fun anymore, now would they...

j/k about the satan part...

I think that's true to an extent, but there is also the story factor that you have to deal with.

Wolfenstein was you vs. Nazis on their turf. Nazi symbols/pics of Hitler.

DOOM was you vs. Demons and demon-possessed comrades, partly on a demon-altered version of your turf, and partly on their's. Satanic imagery.

Quake is you vs. all kinds of things, ranging from humans of some sort to what ever Shub is supposed to be. My first impression from the Quake manual is that they are (space) aliens, yet there are satanic symbols and things throughout the levels.

The problem with Quake is, while it was being designed, they started off wanting to do a more Hexen-style game, but as time went on, and the release date neared, they had barely gotten anything done, and switched to a DOOM-style shooter half way through development.

They had three or four different people working on the maps, and really none of it but Episode 2 had much flow to it.

Quake is a game FULL of identity issues - one of which deals with the topic of the thread directly: imagery.

But all of the Quake identity/story stuff behind, was it Romero who pushed id into all the satanic stuff, because with his absence, the games have a very different vibe about them. (good, but different)

Danarchy said:

Yeah, Quake was about Elder Gods. Bit of a difference.

Quake was about something? O_O

Enjay said:

Quake was about something? O_O

My point exactly! (in the earlier post)

Ha!

mje said:

My first impression from the Quake manual is that they are (space) aliens, yet there are satanic symbols and things throughout the levels.

Well, you'd be wrong. Read some occult references, all the names are familiar, although they get re-used in many contexts where a certain elder god has the same name as another elder god but they are entirely different gods. The symbols are not satanic, they are pagan. The pentagram actually is a symbol of protection/"warding" and/or luck, for instance. There are many runes present in Quake which have their various meanings. You can look up references to runes in general and probably find the ones from Quake to have meanings corresponding to how they were used in the games.

The premise is that "Quake," an evil power hungry entity from a seperate dimension happened to find access to our world through the new teleport technology. Through the game you use your technology and various occult means to fight him and his minions off.

People who have compared the storylines often say that Quake takes place in a ravaged world after the demon invasion has been fought off, and the slipgate technology is sort of a "Will they ever learn?" thing.

I don't care if Quake is or isn't about something. It's a great game with great gameplay and great environments. That's all what matters to me. :)

mje said:

the bloody Jesus designs on the wall (not necessarilly Satanic, obviously, but it wouldn't take a genious to figure out that id didn't put it in the game out of reverence

Actually Sandy Petersen, who did all the levels in Doom E2 and E3, is a Mormon.

Read about it here

I agree with you to an extent, but I still cannot deny that even though the pentagram may've originated (or whatever) in paganism, it is still used by satanists.

Take DOOM for instance, which directly dealt with "demons" from "hell." Pentagrams are widely known for their use in satanic context, as well as the paganistic uses.

Not to mention the whole 666 thing when you get the pentagram of protection (the 666 cannot be argued to be a referrence to something else besides satanic stuff), though the "protection" part of "pentagram of protection" could be interpreted as the "warding" or whatever you spoke of. I could imagine that.

That also doesn't completely rule out the use of the Jesus texture mentioned in an earlier post (which to my knowledge COULDN'T mirror some paganistic use, and as I originally said, there is no way on earth id put it there in reverence).

fraggle said:

Actually Sandy Petersen, who did all the levels in Doom E2 and E3, is a Mormon.

I know that. But that doesn't dead-lock him as always doing what his cult commands.

(totally seperate topic, so I posted again)

mje said:

I know that. But that doesn't dead-lock him as always doing what his cult commands.

(totally seperate topic, so I posted again)

Hey! I'm a Mormon. Shut up and show some proper respect to my religion. I don't give you shit for being a Lutheran, Catholic, atheist or agnostic.

If you're talking about my referral to Mormonism as a cult, that is what they teach in classrooms. I don't know about in UTAH classrooms though. :)

Cult = not necessarilly evil or whatever.


No offense.

mje said:

When you go through Quake II, (if my memory serves me), you won't find any pentagrams, no upside down crosses, no bloody sculptures of Jesus... nothing controversial at all, except for the violence that is in basically all computer games.

I think Processing Plant outdid anything in any of the Romero-era id games in that respect.

Lüt said:

I think Processing Plant outdid anything in any of the Romero-era id games in that respect.

You said it!

mje said:

Neither was Quake I, unless you deliberately choose to interpret it that way.

Hmm, the enemies in Quake 1 look pretty demonic. The Elder God (if Quake even is an Elder God - it's never revealed what Quake really is, because Shub Niggurath =! Quake) is clearly Satanic, so he/she/it summoned demons to fight the humans.

Simple.

But I suppose I deliberately chose to interpret it like that. The thing to remember is just this:

Doom: Demons from Hell.

Quake 1: Demonic, extra-dimensional creatures.

Quake 2: High-tech, cyborg aliens using 1337 high-tech and machinery.

Controversial symbols don't really fit Quake 2, because the aliens clearly aren't all magic and demonic, but high-techy space aliens.

dsm said:

Doom: Demons from Hell.

Quake 1: Demonic, extra-dimensional creatures.

Quake 2: High-tech, cyborg aliens using 1337 high-tech and machinery.

Controversial symbols don't really fit Quake 2, because the aliens clearly aren't all magic and demonic, but high-techy space aliens.

True, but fitting in with the original idea, after Romero left, id began creating games like Quake 2. Of course controversial symbols won't fit. That's because the game style deviated from demonic to tech-aliens.

Job said:

Hey! I'm a Mormon. Shut up and show some proper respect to my religion. I don't give you heck for being a Lutheran, Catholic, atheist or agnostic.

At what threshhold of endorsing illegal activity does a belief system lose its "religion" status?

Oops, I spilled some worms. Everyone tuck your pants inside your socks.

Commander Keen said:

COMING SOON FROM ID SOFTWARE
As our follow-up to the Commander Keen trilogy, id Software is working on 'The Fight for Justice', a completely new approach to fantasy gaming. You start not as a weakling with no food--you start as Quake, the strongest, most dangerous person on the continent. You start off with a Hammer of Thunderbolts, a Ring of Regeneration, and a trans-dimensional artifact. Here the fun begins. You fight for Justice, a secret organization devoted to vanquishing evil from the land! This is role-playing excitement.

And you don't chunk around the screen. 'The Fight for Justice' contains fully animated scrolling backgrounds. All the people you meet have their own lives, personalities, and objectives. A 256-color VGA version will be available (smooth scrolling 256-color screens --fancy that)!

And the depth of play will be intense. No more "whack whack here's some gold". There will be interesting puzzles and decisions won't be "yes/no" but complex correlations of people and events. 'The Fight for Justice' will be the finest PC game yet.

AndrewB said:

At what threshhold of endorsing illegal activity does a belief system lose its "religion" status?

Oops, I spilled some worms. Everyone tuck your pants inside your socks.

You don't have to believe everything a religion dictates to follow it. I've met a lot of people who claim to be Catholic who don't agree with all of their doctrines.

mje said:

If you're talking about my referral to Mormonism as a cult, that is what they teach in classrooms. I don't know about in UTAH classrooms though. :)

Cult = not necessarilly evil or whatever.


No offense.

any religion can be called a cult. the church and media kinda gave that word a bad meaning but the true definition fits any religion

Since your beliefs do not fall notch-to-notch with Mormonism, you should consider yourself an individual, not a Mormon.

mje said:

Even NIN did the sound and music, which has long been known as one of those "bands" that considered to be satanic, or at least extremely irreverent towards religion.

I don't think so there. Who considers NIN "satanic"? Even though Reznor did the music/sound, Quake isn't about demons. Doom is.

this thread's high potential is dwindling.

fraggle said:

Actually Sandy Petersen, who did all the levels in Doom E2 and E3, is a Mormon.

Hmm...I just now realised the Sandy Peterson/Quake connection. Sandy Peterson wrote the original Call of Cthulhu RPG. Quake used the Cthulhu mythos as inspiration. It was probably his idea to use a Lovecraftian theme when they realised they coulnt make the RPG they wanted.

Lo_Ot said:

I think Processing Plant outdid anything in any of the Romero-era id games in that respect.

That level was genius.

dsmsd said:

Hmm, the enemies in Quake 1 look pretty demonic. The Elder God (if Quake even is an Elder God - it's never revealed what Quake really is, because Shub Niggurath =! Quake) is clearly Satanic, so he/she/it summoned demons to fight the humans.

Um, what makes you think that Shub-Niggurath isn't Quake?

18th Book OT said:

You don't have to believe everything a religion dictates to follow it. I've met a lot of people who claim to be Catholic who don't agree with all of their doctrines.

Personaly, I think it's absolutely silly to belong to a religion in which you dont agree to everything they do. What is the point then? That's why I never aligned myself with anyone else's religion.

EDIT: Damn, AndrewB already said it. I should take him off ignore.