Reality

Hi! I'm new to this forum. I'm just a normal old Doom player... I've never done any multiplayer, I've never played any MODs, and I've made a couple of amatuer WADs. I'll probably be a Doom Newbie forever, because I'm currently trying to protect my "precious GPA" and I also play Starcraft and compose music.

ANYWAY... about the title. I've recently been trying to do something really crazy with Doom 2. I'm trying to play a No Hit Run. That means I can't take a single point of damage for the entire game. Ultra Violence. I can save as much as I want, and I can sometimes even use the "put monsters to sleep" bug, but if I take even one point of damage I must re-load.

Right now I'm up to level 25. It's so freaking hard, because the acid timer has to be exactly right when I run through the acid at the very beginning. I've been working on it all day and I finally shot the barrels under the bloodfall and made it back to the teleport without taking damage from the acid. Right now I'm working on that huge courtyard part with the skeleton in the center. Those stupid chaingun guys keep getting me though, I might just have to pull out my BFG...


Has this ever been attempted before? Any tips? I have no clue how I'm going to get by Level 30...

I recall this as "pacifist" but it isnt as advanced as this.

The first time I did something like that was with one of DooMBoy's maps. It was purely by chance, but it was still an accomplishment. Of course, this means that he had to alter the map because it was way too easy.

BlackFish said:

I recall this as "pacifist" but it isnt as advanced as this.

Uhh, pacifist is where you can't inflict any damage on the monsters yourself.

If I successfully do it, I'll Write a No-hit FAQ and post it on GameFaqs.

CtrlAltDestroy said:

If I successfully do it, I'll Write a No-hit FAQ and post it on GameFaqs.

While it's noble, and your effort is admirable, it's largely useless except for entertainment value.

What are video games for?

CtrlAltDestroy said:

What are video games for?

Owned.

I once did a nohit runthough on Contra... but I could never beat Super C without getting hit.

CtrlAltDestroy said:

What are video games for?

They are meant to pass time, but if you are to the point where you are doing something like this, you must have a lot of free time that needs to be wasted...

Edit: oops, they are actually to make money for the developers.

KoRn said:

They are meant to pass time, but if you are to the point where you are doing something like this, you must have a lot of free time that needs to be wasted...

Edit: oops, they are actually to make money for the developers.

No. They were originially conceived as a scapegoat for politicians and bad parents.

That style already exists and is called ´reality´.

KoRn said:
They are meant to pass time, but if you are to the point where you are doing something like this, you must have a lot of free time that needs to be wasted...

So anything that is done persistenly with an achievement in mind, in relation to the game, is a waste of time, whereas doing it idly or with mediocre and forgettable results isn't?

I do fear you post out of your ass, sir; and it's a waste of time.

So, you're allowed to shoot monsters but not allowed to take a single hit? Sounds like fun to try! But, I wouldn't use this reload trick to put monsters back in their idle state, because it's so easy to abuse it. Also, you should record your attempts... first level by level, and ultimately an entire 32 level run in one go. Demo site COMPET-N is probably interested :)

This is indeed known as "reality", although "reality" (at least by the original definition) also wouldn't allow you to use the plasma gun or the BFG.

I once saw a page where someone had put reality demos of all maps. However, it didn't seem like map25 reality was possible on UV - there was a skill 1 or nomonsters (or both?) demo instead.

I prefer to use the term 'Flawless'.

Cacodreams said:
That style already exists and is called ´reality´.

Indeed. People have done reality style runs through every map of Doom 2 already (most of them were on skill 2, though).
The trick is to do it without saves. :-)

I made a few Reality runs myself a while back as a fun and humble tribute to Doom's 10 year anniversary. They can be found in the Doomworld demo directory:

* Doom 2 map 7 UV reality in 2:44
(Also includes a wacky Doom 2 map 7 SSG only UV reality in 3:19)
* E1M1 UV reality in 0:46 (slooow...but just for fun)

They were recorded in ZDooM 1.22.

..And to answer your question: There are some reality demos available (for example at the Doomworld SDA and at the COMPET-N) but the problem is it's never been an "official" COMPET-N category, so there has been little focus on organized competition/keeping track of Reality demos. I believe some reality demos are available at the COMPET-N here
(I know e.g. 29s2-517.zip is a reality demo)

I used to PLAY almost like this.

Essentially when I play FPSs, I tend to try and beat the map without taking a single hit and I hit the reload key once I take a hit.
However, there are certain situations where I allow myself to take damage (if it seems nearly impossible to avoid).

This is usually the reason why I never agree with those that say that a single player game is "too easy". Whether a single player game is "easy" or "hard" is a matter of how you play it.

I'm still in the process of getting used to not reload everytime I suffer some damage.

Fredrik said:

This is indeed known as "reality", although "reality" (at least by the original definition) also wouldn't allow you to use the plasma gun or the BFG.

Hmm, sounds kind of stupid that you couln't use bfg or plasma gun. If that is supposed to make the game realistic or something it fails it, there are still soulspheres, megaspheres, berserk packs and a lot of gameplay features that aren't realistic.

dsm said:

I used to PLAY almost like this.

I'm still in the process of getting used to not reload everytime I suffer some damage.

Ouch, sounds like a very bad habit to me. I usually try to play the exactly oppisite way by not saving the game whenever it is possible. This is why it's pretty annoying when I've played some easy level for quite some time and a chrusher or something else suddenly kills me and I have to restart from my previous save, often meaning I have to play five to ten minutes the same parts. Saving too often makes me play worse and it usually ruins the mood too.

DooMer 4ever said:

Saving too often makes me play worse and it usually ruins the mood too.

Heh, it usually has the opposite effect on me. I regard having to reload as a "humiliation" (plus it's annoying, especially if I forgot to save), thus I try my hardest not to "fail".

But it does have the huge disadvantage that I get extremely frustrated if I play a game harder than your avarage Id game (games where you have to be so tough that you can easily beat Doom on Nightmare if you want to avoid taking a single hit - Halo would be one of those). Which is also why I'm trying to get out of the habit.

dsm said:

I'm still in the process of getting used to not reload everytime I suffer some damage.

I agree with doomer, the sooner the better. I used to have this same problem and couldn't enjoy myself as much when I struggled for better stats with impulsive saving and loading, but by the end you realize it was easy enough to have played without them, if you really try. Plus there's the lack of a real sense of accomplishment... I'm not sure why I used to do it anymore, perhaps because I used to be more obsessive-compulsive when it came to game playing, but enjoying yourself should come first. :)

Nowadays I usually go by ingame autosaves if there are any. That means at the start of a level for zdoom autosaves, or a few times a level in a game like Call of Duty. I think the only time I used quicksaves in CoD was in the Russian level Pavlov (the 4 story building scenario) which was quite tricky... or perhaps overly so... if you've played the game, you'll know what I mean. :)

Reality style was invented by Thomas "Panter" Pilger in 1997 or 1998. There used to be a page here that hosted reality demos for all Doom2 maps, (some on skill 5), but it doesn't exist any more.

(Incidentally, does Frank Siebers nightmare demos page exist either? Went looking for it and couldn't find it.)

Ryback said:
(Incidentally, does Frank Siebers nightmare demos page exist either? Went looking for it and couldn't find it.)

I looked for it as well, after I read about it in Doug's 10 year anniversary chronicles, but I had no luck. Perhaps it no longer exists. :-(

OMFG! this is Fucking Insane!!
how can you people beat this shit so perfectly!???
it BOGGLES my mind!

What are you referring to?

I have both pages archived if anyone is interested.
and then there is http://www.archive.org
As already stated, Reality was originally conceived to not use plasma because such weapons don't exist today. on the Iwad maps, powerups(etc) aren't all that common (besides, they are mostly inconsequential because you can't take any damage anyway, so a megasphere doesn't do you any good). It was cool to see Panter/Seibers so passionate about it. :)

DEMOn said:
As already stated, Reality was originally conceived to not use plasma because such weapons don't exist today.

Okay, I don't mean to be a smart-ass here and I'm certainly not a weapons expert.. But do hand-held rocket launchers (with a capacity of 100 rockets) exist today?

Or berserk packs for that matter? ;-P

EDIT: Oh, and I'd be very interested to see both those pages. I'd be most grateful if you could make them available somehow.

mabey those rockets are RPGs like the russian RPG-9

DooMer 4ever said:
Hmm, sounds kind of stupid that you couln't use bfg or plasma gun. If that is supposed to make the game realistic or something it fails it, there are still soulspheres, megaspheres, berserk packs and a lot of gameplay features that aren't realistic.

That's just the justification. It's simply defining an interesting competition/challenge category, and all these are arbitrary. The aim is making play more difficult by making it harder (removing the two topmost weapons... in addition to the basic "don't get hurt.") I mean, there aren't Imps and Arachnotrons in the real world either, so you might as well use -nomonsters if you're really pushing for realism; so obviously that's not the main point.