Don't rock her world or shake that baby

If any of you are thinking about attacking a pregnant mother or her fetus, you may want to reconsider.

well as i see it abortion is legal. so a fetus has no rights. (i dont agree with abortion but thats how the law is) so if a pregnant woman is attacked and the fetus killed then the person who attacked should only be charged with assault and maybe atempted murder.

Let's say I get in a car accident. A drunk driver rams me on the driver's side and a lot of body parts under my upper torso are torn. My penis is mutiliated and rendered 'dead'. I want the driver to be charged with the crime of murder of my unborn child. Ridiculous.

Its a woman's choice (though I don't agree with it) to abort a child so its legal. An assault is not a women's choice, but some fucking asshole's so why shouldn't he be charged with murder for the fetus? He denied it its right to be born where obviously the mother did not have any plans at that point to get rid of it.

"Destroy another fetus now, we don't like children anyhow..." What song?

This is nothing but an attempted step towards banishing abortion.

Fredrik said:

This is nothing but an attempted step towards banishing abortion.

My thinking is the same.

Scabbed Angel said:

Its a woman's choice (though I don't agree with it)

As ridiculous as this may sound, it reminds me a lot of the chicken and egg theory that no one holds a solid ownership on to another one's life.

Ralphis said:

I want the driver to be charged with the crime of murder of my unborn child.

Pluralize that. Charge the guy with GENOCIDE, for killing millions and millions of children of the Ralphis species.

Wait, sorry, that's not genocide, that's saving the world. :P

EDIT: And might I add: FUCKING HIPPIES

Stupid. The fucking fundamentalist right just wants to make it legal to kill abortionists. Because Hell, lumps of genetic matrial are more important than doctors.

Danarchy said:

Stupid. The fucking fundamentalist right just wants to make it legal to kill abortionists. Because Hell, lumps of genetic matrial are more important than doctors.

Get your Gunn.

Ralphis said:

Let's say I get in a car accident. A drunk driver rams me on the driver's side and a lot of body parts under my upper torso are torn. My penis is mutiliated and rendered 'dead'. I want the driver to be charged with the crime of murder of my unborn child. Ridiculous.

But if a single testicle survived, you can still be a daddy! There's still hope Ralphis! ;)

Obviously hitting a pregnant woman is much more dangerous than hitting non-pregnant, but murder is too far. A fetus is definitely alive from conception (in the sense than anything that grows organically is alive), but I don't think that the definition of "person" is important here. What's important is who exactly is being hurt and to what degree.

By the way, I don't consider aborting an early-term fetus (I.E. before development of the nervous system) to really be hurting anything, because it doesn't care either way. A fetus doesn't lie there constantly thinking "I hope I don't get aborted!" That's just silly.

Job said:

If any of you are thinking about attacking a pregnant mother or her fetus, you may want to reconsider.

Wowzers, kinda a crazy subject here! I think this is some thing I will never find myself doing... Not even to animals.

Urgh, society needs to either decide if a fetus is alive or if it's not. These half-assed measures won't do anyone any good. If it's not alive then it doesn't matter. If it is a live then it's murder adn outlaw abortion. I'm getting really tired of the whole Life vs Choice debacle.

I disagree. I think society needs to reach a compromise and not look at things in such black and white terms.

I demand right for my sperm! They are living cells? Are they not?

Ban masturbation and periods!

Compromise doesn't work. If it did we wouldn't be having this discussion.

So, you can't kill a collection of living cells? Fine, no more amputees. With the catch-all definitions used to save fetuses and zygotes, you sure as hell will have to count out a lot of life saving surgeries. And rest assured, an abortion is life-saving in the literal sense as well as the figurative. Okay, pro-lifers, if you want to play hard ball, then I guess we'll have to save the tumors and gangrene legs too. They're part of a living human being (developing fetuses/zygotes/etc are a part of the mother's body as much as her left arm is), right? So it's all tantamount to murder.

Your amputated leg never had the potential for sentience.

OR DOES IT???!!!!

Heh, zygotes' and fetuses' potential for sentience is slim to none if for no other reason than that we live in a media-advertising-corporation-controlled society.

Seriously though, let me know when and how a fetus/zygote/baby possesses sentience. You go ask one and when it can tell you, pass it on to me. I'll back you 100% after that. :P

Pfft, I don't go for the whole "is it alive" issue. :p I just want everyone to decide one way or the other so we can move on to more important issues. Other than that and I really stopped caring about it a long time ago.

Rellik said:

Compromise doesn't work. If it did we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Compromises almost always work. You never hear raging debates as to whether alcohol or tobacco should be legal or criminalized. Society has already reached a compromise where they're heavily regulated.

There has never been a compromise on the abortion issue. It's either been completely illegal or completely legal. And that really doesn't get us anywhere.

I like how bureaucrats take it upon themselves to decide there's "a certain point in time" where a living entity enters the cell structure. As if there's a signal or "hi-sign" that lets us know, "OK, I'm alive now! Don't perforate me with a coathanger!!"

Fine, no more amputees. With the catch-all definitions used to save fetuses and zygotes, you sure as hell will have to count out a lot of life saving surgeries. .........then I guess we'll have to save the tumors and gangrene legs too.

Ah, that's going a bit too far. Gangrenous or otherwise-infected limbs pose a threat to the host's life. And said extremity would not carry on through any sacrifice of said host. So, either one goes or they both go. In a perfect world the same would apply to fetuses(and pretty much only in that case), since our bodies are only marginally adept at spewing dangerous organisms from its orifii.

...Which brings us to the 2004 Projectile Miscarriage Championships!

As we all know, contenders will be judged on distance, spread, and fetal age! And accompanying me in the booth this year: you might remember her from last year as the trophy winner in last year's special Triplets category, Miss Robin Petri! Now, what made you decide not to compete this year, Robin?....................

You never hear raging debates as to whether alcohol or tobacco should be legal or criminalized. Society has already reached a compromise where they're heavily regulated.

Compromise: Alchohol is legal, you just can't operate a motorvehicle while drunk.

Compromise fails: Millions of people drive drunk anyways.

Sorry, I just have no faith in the human animal. On the upside apparently I just have to wait till we run out of oil and it all falls apart. Yay!

EDIT: To whomever added to my title the answer is:

[RICKY]Fuck off.[/RICKY]

God I love TrailerPark Boys....

Numbermind said:

Gangrenous or otherwise-infected limbs pose a threat to the host's life.

So do babies. They are parasitic.

My point exactly.

Maybe I misexpressed myself, but I was under the assumption that the conflicts of abortion legality are less about "posing a threat to the mother's life" than they are about "the mother having second thoughts or forgetting to take her pill". A fetus aborted due to dangerous complications is where I making the "infected limb" allegory.

A 19-year-old having an abortion because her boyfriend doesn't have a job and she doesn't want to stop going to the bar four times a week is more comparable to plastic surgery, which is also pointless in my opinion. And even then, your misshapen nose(as far as we can tell) may not grow to have a compulsion to evolve, learn, and make a life for itself in spite of your not wanting it. So, even THAT comparison is a stretch.

Numbermind said:

...may not grow to have a compulsion to evolve, learn, and make a life for itself...

Remind you of any humans?

*sigh*

Derailed.