Real-Time Cyb in 3057

Okay so that's not really what it stands for, but it should, damnit. Anyways Shaviro has notified me in the super-secret RTC-3057 IRC channel that he's posted a RTC 3057 hub1 progress report. It pretty much states that hub1 is nearly done and should be released once a certain French person makes some sounds and music for it. There's also other various infos about the project to read up on.

oo, sounds like fun.
A new demo would be nice... Although I forget what the current demo is like. Oh well.

Yay, Can't Wait :D

The player has been slowed down to about 50% of his normal speed.

what

Has the player been given more health/armor to compensate?

I'd actually like to play "Real-Time Cyb." It'd be like "Being John Malkovitch," on Cyb-like. :P

Anyways, glad to hear RTC 3057 is coming along so well. Very good.

Actually the slowing down of the player adds to the tension I think.

It makes it feel, more real i seems to me.

It's a good thing, trust me.
But not Martha...

sgtcrispy said:

Actually the slowing down of the player adds to the tension I think.

It makes it feel, more real i seems to me.

It's a good thing, trust me.
But not Martha...

I doubt that. Slow players have been the major reason I didn't like most newer games and 50% is quite extreme IMHO.

Graf Zahl said:

I doubt that. Slow players have been the major reason I didn't like most newer games and 50% is quite extreme IMHO.

Reasons we slowed down the player:

• Speeding at about 90mph had a serious, negative impact on the atmosphere
  
• It was too easy to miss important details, console and the likes
  
• Given the complexity of the various hallways in the first hub, it was too easy getting stuck between things
  
• To provide a bigger challenge for the players
  
• To make it more believable
  

In RTC-3057 you will meet less monsters than in regular wads, and those will often be "weak monsters". We are trying to bring back the fear for the monsters by making the big ones more frightening/challenging. So far I think the slower player speed is an important step in that direction. Same goes for weapons. The supershotgun will not appear untill the third hub or so. This isn't one of those wads where you will get the BFG in the second level.

Heh, this sounds similar to my Rust project in some ways. Very small encounters, no supershotgun at all (unbalances gameplay terribly) and slower player speed. ALthough 50% really does sound just a bit extreme. Couldn't you implement a limited sprint feature?

Speaking as one who has played it before and after, I can say the Slow down of the player speed increases the quality of the gameplay a LOT.

ToXiCFLUFF said:

Heh, this sounds similar to my Rust project in some ways. Very small encounters, no supershotgun at all (unbalances gameplay terribly) and slower player speed. ALthough 50% really does sound just a bit extreme. Couldn't you implement a limited sprint feature?

As a beta tester who was extremely sceptical about this when it was discussed internally in the team, I can say that it improves gameplay - no, it's not extreme in the least. Took me less than two minutes to get used to it. After that you won't even notice that you're slow.

Just goes to prove that all this crap about Doom "being a fast paced game" is...well...bullshit. That's imho.

dsm said:

Just goes to prove that all this crap about Doom "being a fast paced game" is...well...bullshit. That's imho.

Well sure it's bullshit if you HALVE THE PLAYER SPEED. Go watch some Hell Revealed demos and tell me Doom isn't fast paced.

Sure, Doom is fast paced. But the question is: is RTC-3057 the same as Doom?

I actually have beta-tested it and I have to say I very much dislike the halved played speed, isn't that the Doom marine's walking speed?? It's basically as if you just removed the run key from Doom. I think a slower pace does fit well with RTC, but 50% makes the game feel like Halo to me. And I can guarantee right now that's going to be the primary complaint with 3057.

sargebaldy said:

And I can guarantee right now that's going to be the primary complaint with 3057.

It won't just be a complaint. If I guess the preferences of Doom players correctly this will turn *really* ugly. Better make it configurable. If you think it's necessary, fine. But forcing everyone to crawl though it at a snail's pace is not. That's definitely not why I play Doom.

I wouldn't be surprised if there were multiple 'RTC-3057 is shit' threads around.
For someone like me it's not a problem. It would take me less than 5 minutes to get rid of the speed limit but others might not be so lucky.

Linguica said:

Well sure it's bullshit if you HALVE THE PLAYER SPEED. Go watch some Hell Revealed demos and tell me Doom isn't fast paced.

Go play the original Id levels - fast pacing ain't necessary for those.

Haha, go play the RTC-demo and you will see that it's nothing like doom. If the authors claim half speed of doom is the right speed for RTC, it probably is.

You know what?
I agree with you guys. Let's set the player speed back to normal.
While we're at it, let's change the player sprites back to normal. Without the new player sprites, we certainly don't need to have a story, so let's stick that back in between chapters and include a backstory. Now that the story is gone, we should really remove the custom textures and palette, because that is certainly not Doom. The new music and sounds aren't Doom either, so let's drop that as well. All scripting isn't necessary as it adds puzzles and other non-doom things. Now we don't need Zdoom anymore, so let's make it for vanilla Doom. Vanilla Doom can't handle the levels, so let's throw those in the bin. Now there's not really much of a project left, so we don't need the readme.txt either. So what's left?

Solution: c:\games\doom\doom.exe

No need for custom stuff when we have the fine doom2.wad. :)

*Whine, whine, bitch, bitch - Doom without fast pace is not Doom*

It's Doom to me - may not be it to you, but that doesn't give you the right to state it as the "Eternal Truth" that Doom without a fast pace is not Doom (nor do I have the right to state the opposite as the "Eternal Truth", so I retract my statement from before).

When I made the change from Wolf3d to Doom it seemed to me that the player moved at a snail's pace in Doom by comparison. This made the game all the more immersive, that's why fast pace is not something I connect with Doom. To me it all lies in the weapons, enemies and evil atmosphere - everything else, could just as well be different for all I care.

You have the right to not like RTC-3057, but if you judge it without at least trying it first, then you're an asshat.

Shaviro said:

a long whinge

overreact much?

It may or may not be doom, but it doesnt have to be. There are lots of other games out there that are more slowly paced. That doesnt make them bad.

RTC-3057 isn't Doom. Hell Revealed isn't Doom. ANY 3rd party add-on isn't Doom.

If you want Doom, play Doom - you've got a choice of doom.wad, doom2.wad, tnt.wad and plutonia.wad. Go play them and stop bitching.

This is not Doom. This is RTC-3057. This is better than Doom.

Szymanski said:

overreact much?

Think of it as an overreaction to an overreaction.

Of course RTC-3057 isn't Doom. But its intended audience is still Doomers, so of course it's going to get bitched at for changing something so incredibly fundamental to the popularity of Doom as the speed you can traverse the gameworld.

sargebaldy said:

Of course RTC-3057 isn't Doom. But its intended audience is still Doomers, so of course it's going to get bitched at for changing something so incredibly fundamental to the popularity of Doom as the speed you can traverse the gameworld.

The audience for RTC-3057 is its creators.

If you're the audience, why do you so seem so upset about what other people think?

sargebaldy said:

If you're the audience, why do you so seem so upset about what other people think?

Because it's the same additude as the anti-port people. An additude I really don't like.

Shaviro said:

The audience for RTC-3057 is its creators.

All right, then never mention it on these forums again and I'll make sure DW never posts news about it again.

sargebaldy said:

Of course RTC-3057 isn't Doom. But its intended audience is still Doomers, so of course it's going to get bitched at for changing something so incredibly fundamental to the popularity of Doom as the speed you can traverse the gameworld.

There's plenty "fundamental" things from Doom changed in RTC that singling this one thing out is a little ridiculous. I don't think shav was overreacting that much in his statement above, to be honest. I can't believe THIS of all things is an issue. The point is that RTC is taking a modified version of doom, adding all new stuff to it, and is therefore NOT DOOM. So who cares if it changes things fundamental to doom. IT IS NOT DOOM KTHXBYE.

I know that last part has been stated numerous times in this thread, but it needs to be restated. The only people that are going to complain are morons who want everything different yet everything the same.