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DooMBoy

Big Problem

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OK, I've been working on my Abandoned City map for Heretic these last few days, and the map has gotten kind of big - 450+ sectors. There's a part of of my map that, today, that after playing through it, I decided it should be redone. So I redid this particular section, saved. This is when everything went apeshit, suddenly all the vertices and vertexes were scrambled all together, and there wasn't anything I could do about it - no ctrl + z'ing because I had just saved. I renamed the backup file, redid this section all over again, and saved. Same damn thing.
What the fuck?

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Yes, it happens I do, thankfully. Luckily rebuilding the one particular section of my map wouldn't take maybe ten or fifteen minutes, but I'm curious as to why Deepsea fux0red the map up in the first place.

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I remember DCK 2.2 doing that every so often. Usually I could just back it up, but there were times when the damage was so minimal, I could just delete the bad area and start over from there. Thankfully, DCK 3.62 hasn't done that even once.

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Well clearly it's your fault and not that of DeepSea, Doomboy

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I don't know. It was probably the node builder. Try using Zennode instead. That one included with DCK 2.2 is what caused all of my map troubles.

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Cyb said:

Well clearly it's your fault and not that of DeepSea, Doomboy

Trust me, all I did was build this one particular section, save, and bam, all messed up.

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DooMBoy said:

Yes, it happens I do, thankfully. Luckily rebuilding the one particular section of my map wouldn't take maybe ten or fifteen minutes, but I'm curious as to why Deepsea fux0red the map up in the first place.

It's a much better idea to ask me directly (via email), since there's hardly anyone here who can help you here - all you get is a lot of guessing - most of it wrong :) I doubt very much its DeePBSP, that things like a rock, unless you are having file problems.

As I recall, you have a pretty old version that you gave to somebody else too :) There were a few things you could do that might have caused a problem in the past, but you didn't describe anything in detail, so even I can't give even a guess. It's like saying, "hey my car quit running, what's wrong?".

What you should do is send me the level with a detailed explanation of what you are doing. I'll replicate your steps in the current version and see what happens. If it works, then I must have fixed it - I may or may not remember what it was :)

I can't answer for a few days since I'll be busy on a job, but I'll look at it.

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I had this problem in an early version of deepsea. If I ran zdoom from within deepsea to test the map a few times the save function would turn the map to spaghetti. It wasn't predictable and occured infrequently.

Im running Deepsea 11.76 and XP now and haven't had the problem reappear.

It did force me into the habit of always saving to a new file, just in case.

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JacKThERiPPeR said:

I principaly reccomend WadAuthor. DeepSea (sorry for saying it, but) is a lot of buttons.

Else, use DooM Builder.

You realize you can customize Deepsea in around 5 seconds to have less buttons than Doom Builder, right? Plus you can make the properties box not take up the entire bottom of the screen like the one in DB does. All in all, those DB fans who accuse DS of being cluttered are being extremely hypocritical.

When with Wintex you see the layout of a ZDooM map, it looks like spaghetti.

Not if you put it in Hexen mode.

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DooMBoy said:

OK, I've been working on my Abandoned City map for Heretic these last few days, and the map has gotten kind of big - 450+ sectors. There's a part of of my map that, today, that after playing through it, I decided it should be redone. So I redid this particular section, saved. This is when everything went apeshit, suddenly all the vertices and vertexes were scrambled all together, and there wasn't anything I could do about it - no ctrl + z'ing because I had just saved.


Not much to work on, but does DS aoutmatically rebuild nodes when you save? I ask this because the same thing happened to me (using a different editor though). The problem was a lone vertex that did not pop up in the error check. When I rebuilt the nodes, the map turned into "spaghetti".

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Back in the days I used DoomCad for mapping something like this happened to my level, all the sector data was erased and all the linedefs joined to or two spots on the map. It looked like the map had exploded or something.

I had a lot of problem with that particular map after that too when I started using wadauthor. I could save the map without any problems but the secret sectors wouldn't work as there should have been three secrets but wadauthor claimed that there were none. Luckily the problem was solved with Doom Builder.

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PSchmitz said:

Not much to work on, but does DS aoutmatically rebuild nodes when you save? I ask this because the same thing happened to me (using a different editor though). The problem was a lone vertex that did not pop up in the error check. When I rebuilt the nodes, the map turned into "spaghetti".

It doesn't do it automatically, rather it asks you if you want to.

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JacKThERiPPeR said:

I wish that this "Big Problem" would not happen to my "666 sectors" map.


Which reminds me, I just checked the sector counts of my old levels one day and noticed that one of them has 666 sectors :P And I had no idea it did! A weird coincidence I must say.

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DooMBoy said:

It doesn't do it automatically, rather it asks you if you want to.


OK, I'll ask - so did you say yes?

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No. There's an option there so you can rebuild the nodes if you like, but I never use it. I just saved the level like normal, and hey presto, spaghetti.

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DooMBoy said:

No. There's an option there so you can rebuild the nodes if you like, but I never use it. I just saved the level like normal, and hey presto, spaghetti.


That sounded like a spaghetti recipe for me. I don't use node builders.

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JacKThERiPPeR said:

That sounded like a spaghetti recipe for me. I don't use node builders.

LOL - it's a wonder you make any recommendations at all? Without a node builder you can't play a level - it's that simple :)

DooMBoy said:

No. There's an option there so you can rebuild the nodes if you like, but I never use it. I just saved the level like normal, and hey presto, spaghetti.

You know, that's not very helpful. Need much more info and you have to send me the level. But only if you really really want to know the answer :) Of the top of my head I'd say whatever you are doing is not setting a change flag, hence it saves a "mixed" set of data??

See you next week though - even if you send the level now. Hope to get DS 11.9 finalized with RISEN3D in game texture editing. Graham Jackson is doing a really sweet job here, I think everyone will get a bang out of this. Even shows things and enemies as an option. Just phase 1 though and then we do phase 3 - (lol).

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deep said:

LOL - it's a wonder you make any recommendations at all? Without a node builder you can't play a level - it's that simple :)


... unless you use zdoom or an opengl port that builds nodes for you

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Which is what I use all the time, anyway.
Actually I should that I use Deepsea's external nodesbuilder, and that Deepsea builds the nodes for my map every time I save.

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DooMBoy said:

Which is what I use all the time, anyway.
Actually I should that I use Deepsea's internal nodesbuilder, and that Deepsea builds the nodes for my map every time I save.

DeePsea does not have an internal node builder. DeePBSP is an external node builder and existed before DeeP ever existed. That's why you can use any other nodebuilder too.

Shouldn't make any difference if you do or do not build nodes since the save should be the same (just to a different file). You can try it if you like, who knows :)

Why don't you want to send the file so I can see for myself or explain what you were doing?

Cyb said:

... unless you use zdoom or an opengl port that builds nodes for you

You know exactly what I mean. It's not a good idea to let ZDOOM build nodes if you have "fake" bridges and some other stuff. It won't work as intended.

Similarly the OPENGL stuff can go bonkers since the default uses the OLD nodes - which is a poor default for editing - and leads to much confusion. Remember, we are talking about editing levels, not some existing level you want to play in an OGL port for which the default scheme was designed. I'm doing a GL version of DeePBSP to eliminate those problems - 1 of the reasons for the delay :)

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JacKThERiPPeR said:

WadAuthor includes it's "node builder". It is used when saving the map.


..as long as you add or move parts of the structure (not things), or delete anything (including things). And that's if it could be called a nodebuilder - Zennode and ZDBSP are far better.

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