Will Doom3 suck because it's an id game!?

On this Danish hardware news site, they posted an article on the most interesting games coming this year. Doom3 enters as #2, now we can discuss that silly thing endlessly, but what really struck me was people's comments on the article. One guy in particular caught my interest. He said that he doesn't really look forward to Doom3 as it is a id software game, that the engine will rock but the gameplay and leveldesign be mediocre and that the leveldesign will be cramped when compared to H-L2. Now I know that Quake2 was given these exact words back in the day, but as far as I can recall, Quake 1 & 3 was given very good reviews, because of awesome engines , leveldesign and gameplay. Personally I think that id software has some brilliant leveldesigners. But what if this guy is right...?

Edit: Not that I am worried about it. But are you!?

Absolutely not!
You could also say that Half-Life 2 will suck because it's made by Valve.

Or you could say that Duke Nukem Forever will suck because it's made by...will be made by...is in the process of being made by...might b...oh, never mind.

Cramped gameplay? Yes. They are focused on a clausrophobic, frightening game, so this does have some validity. It is also a gameplay decision. That person was probably a HL fanboy; not to say that he is lying, but that that is his opinion and preference. If you prefer to walk 3 miles to the nearest monster (which one could argue is an excuse to lengthen the time of the game). I prefer not to; I find that really boring. Seeing your opponent on the horizion, walking endlessly towards you is the exact opposite of the GOAL that id is going for with their game. There is no sense in comparing Valve's and id's games; they are comepletely different in their goals and genres. The level of detail we've seen in the screens by far, imo, surpasses the detail in HL2. And that's okay. They are not meant to be the same game and also, neither will just have open spaces and cramped corridors. HL2 will have its amount of inside buildings to explore and Doom 3 will, as id has said, have larger areas, including in Hell (which in concept is far more interesting and difficult to implement than what HL2 offers. One again this is just MY preference.) Both will be great games, no doubt. But some people will prefer one over the other. As they say, that's why the man makes 31 flavors.

Also, id has never made a bad game. All of their games have had balanced, interesting gameplay for its time and technical limitations. And HL wouldn't be what it was if not for id. If your worried that you'll be disappointed, let the games decide that for you: not someone else's opinions about 2 very different games that haven't come out yet.

Indeed, I find the arguments a bit vague too... And btw. Shaviro, the article is at http://www.hardwaretidende.dk

INSERT PURE UNADULTERATED HATRED FOR VALVE HERE

Scabbed Angel said:

A lot of good stuff...

Yes, I also thought long and hard about that cramped gameplay bit. That I am definitly not worried about (generally I have a big confidence in id) as in the fact that you'll only get really scared if the monster can lurk behind a dark corner which you'll have to pass by really close. That is, as you say, not scary enough if he's a mile away on some big open area. And scary is what Doom3 is all about. And I'm not worried to be disppointed because of someone's opinion. It just made me wonder if anyone else was thinking this.

c-cooper said:

Yes, I also thought long and hard about that cramped gameplay bit. That I am definitly not worried about (generally I have a big confidence in id) as in the fact that you'll only get really scared if the monster can lurk behind a dark corner which you'll have to pass by really close. That is, as you say, not scary enough if he's a mile away on some big open area. And scary is what Doom3 is all about. And I'm not worried to be disppointed because of someone's opinion. It just made me wonder if anyone else was thinking this.

Not me. Also we must take into consideration the lighting system, which in of itself is a HUGE gameplay factor. Having huge open spaces would render this illogical to implement and in only a small way would it make any graphic difference. In terms of gameplay having this sys in a huge outdoor area would be completely useless.

yeah, less processing power needed to light small spaces also right? but come on, you point a gun and shoot, how could anyone, especially id, screw up that type of gameplay?
ITS NOT TOM CLANCY GHOST RECON OR ANY OF THAT GARBAGE, THAT TYPE OF GAMEPLAY IS INDEED EASY TO MESSUP.

sorry, caps lock was sticking

c-cooper said:

He said that he doesn't really look forward to Doom3 as it is a id software game, that the engine will rock but the gameplay and leveldesign be mediocre and that the leveldesign will be cramped when compared to H-L2.

ROFL. The original Half-life was far more cramped than any of the Quakes.

So HL2 gameplay = "The chosen one!" or that scene from the Holy Grail? :P

Shaviro said:

So HL2 gameplay = "The chosen one!" or that scene from the Holy Grail? :P

Wasn't HL2 supposed to be released already?

.....

interesting...

They're already starting work on HL3.

Arioch said:

They're already starting work on HL3.

Or so they say!
They also said HL2 would be released on the 30th of September...but as we all know it wasn't anywhere near done when they said that! :P
Maybe they will pull a HL1 and redo the whole thing.

No I find the idea of them going ahead and starting work on HL3 without having finished HL2 to be infinitely more amusing.

Arioch said:

No I find the idea of them going ahead and starting work on HL3 without having finished HL2 to be infinitely more amusing.

Well. You have to consider all the many successful games they've made! It's strictly routine for them! :P

Shaviro said:

Well. You have to consider all the many successful games they've made! It's strictly routine for them! :P

Heh heh, ouch. Also I find it funny that a HL2 fanboy will see a zombie in a hallway and declare will utter certainty and without any other research that the whole game is going to be that way. Why don't people just enjoy the fact that two great games are going to one day come out?

Quite, and justifiably so!

Why, in the 9 years they've been in existence, Valve has put numerous great games to market, far more than even id!

Consider:

• Half-Life
  
• Half-Life: Day One
  
• Half-Life: Uplink
  
• Half-Life: Team Fortress Classic
  
• Half-Life: Initital Encounter
  
• Half-Life: Adrenaline Pack
  
• Half-Life: Game of the Year Edition
  
• Half-Life: Opposing Force
  
• Gunman Chronicles
  
• Half-Life: Blue Shift
  
• Half-Life: Decay
  
• Counter-Strike
  
• Day of Defeat
  
• Half-Life: Generations 1
  
• Half-Life: Generations 2
  
• Half-Life: Generations 3
  
• Half-Life: Platinum Collection
  
• Half-Life: Platinum Edition #2
  
• Counter-Strike: Condition Zero
  

WOW!
And they almost made all of them!

Why didn't id do this?

• Doom
  
• Doom: Team Fortress Classic
  
• Doom: Game of the Year Edition
  
• Doom: Small add-on
  
• Doom: Even smaller add-on
  
• Doom: Boring mp thing
  
• Doom: Another boring mp thing
  
• Doom: Platinum Collection
  
• Doom: Platinum Collection #2
  

Shaviro said:

WOW!
And they almost made all of them!

Why didn't id do this?

• Doom
  
• Doom: Team Fortress Classic
  
• Doom: Game of the Year Edition
  
• Doom: Small add-on
  
• Doom: Even smaller add-on
  
• Doom: Boring mp thing
  
• Doom: Another boring mp thing
  
• Doom: Platinum Collection
  
• Doom: Platinum Collection #2
  

And then go on to Doom2?

*sniff* Sometimes I love this board.

the level design will be cramped when compared to H-L2.

I say because of this, the game will be awesome. With the ragdoll physics engine, there'll be enemies being blown into and bouncing off of walls every-which-way when you're fighting in these cramped conditions, something I'd like to do very much. Then there's the scare factor it'll offer...

Shaviro said:

WOW!
And they almost made all of them!

Why didn't id do this?

And then go on to Doom2?

Doom
Doom 2
Master Levels
Ultimate Doom
Final Doom
Doom Collector's Edition

Arioch said:

Doom
Doom 2
Master Levels
Ultimate Doom
Final Doom
Doom Collector's Edition

Quake
Quake MP 1
Quake MP 2
Quake 2
Quake 2 MP1
Quake 2 MP2
Quake 2 Net Pack
Quake 3
Quake 3 TA
Quake 3 Gold

and almost the same with Wolfenstein and Comander Keen

Vegeta said:

But you do agree that >19 retail packages based on parts or whole of one single game in <6 years is quite excessive, right?

Hard != scary.

Arioch said:

But you do agree that >19 retail packages based on parts or whole of one single game in <6 years is quite excessive, right?

Yes. Very.

Arioch said:

But you do agree that >19 retail packages based on parts or whole of one single game in <6 years is quite excessive, right?

Indeed, though the Sims is probably going to beat that record soon... :P

Plus I don't think Gunman Chronicles or Day of Defeat use anything from Half-Life besides the engine.

Arioch said:

But you do agree that >19 retail packages based on parts or whole of one single game in <6 years is quite excessive, right?

Yes

My opinion on the original topic -

id Software nearly always has a very basic design in their games, but the games always end up being the best game for the technology they produce.

For instance, I've found that Quake III is the most basic of all Q3 engine games, yet it is by FAR the deepest and best designed (physics, weapon balance, some of the maps) of all the q3 engine games.

DOOM 3 will no doubt be the same.

Well, in comparison, The Sims was released in 2000.

• The Sims
  
• The Sims: Living Large
  
• The Sims: House Party
  
• The Sims: Hot Date
  
• The Sims: Vacation
  
• The Sims: Unleashed
  
• The Sims: Deluxe
  
• The Sims Online
  
• The Sims: Superstar
  
• The Sims: Bustin' Out
  
• The Sims: Makin' Magic
  
• The Sims: Double Deluxe