Legacy Multi Player -VS- UV Max question

When you play multi player as a single and get max kills, is it normal for the engine to only give 85% kills.

Close as I can figure the 85% credit given in multi player represents the entire SP UV monster count but not the extra multi player monsters even tho' they did show up to the party and were dispatched.

220/257 = 85%

220 UV max monsters, 257 UV total = multi + UV SP.

Anyway I thought it odd that the player that whacked em' did not get full credit for them.

btw, Legacy ver. 1.40a

Well when I played modem cooperative games looong ago, I also noticed that the sum of killed monster percentages never equals to 100, and I developed the hypothesis that in multiplayer, only monsters killed by players, not other monsters, are counted (the game doesn't know which player to assign the kill to?). I'm in no way sure about that but it's pretty easy to test. Just make two sample maps, one with lots of infighting but no multiplayer-only monsters, and the other in reverse. See if you can get 100% in any of those and post the results, I'm curious too :)

And I guess it doesn't have anything to do with Legacy :)

You may be right, I will fiddle with it a little. Take just few minutes to draw a couple of square rooms to test it on.

Truth be told there were probably more than 15% infighting kills in that run.

I set it up for good infighting action ;)

But the 85% is exactly the ratio of UV max to multiplayer monster count.

edit:
this run was done in multi player even tho' there was only one player.

hmm... hard to say.
in coop with the real game, the kill tallies are rounded.
Say player1 kill 40% and player2 kills 50% even though all monsters are dead. They either killed each other, or the game is really bad at rounding. :P
as for what you saw, I'm not sure if this applies.

OK, so the totals COULD BE around 90%.

So if someone were to record their multi player run as a single how the heck could they prove a max run if the engine/port did not show real totals?

Is that why there aren't that many recorded multi runs by single players?

Simply by being aware of where the monsters are, or, better yet, using a demo analyzer to check how many monsters are left alive at the end of the demo.

But yeah, coop gives percentages for the monsters killed by each player. Monsters that were killed by other monsters are not counted. If I'm not mistaken this is the tally method used for Single Player in earlier versions of Doom.

The demo credit was my concern. I thought that demos should be fully credited. But I guess the game just has no clue who to credit for a monster killed by infighting when in multiplayer even if the player is a single in a multi player run. Seems like there should be code to check and see if any others joined the multi player run.

Rich made a quick two room map and tested this.

He discovered that in multi player, when played as a single, he was only credited for the monsters he whacked and none of the monsters that were killed by infighting.

yeah, actually no engines/ports besides timer.exe and tasdoom.exe show a counter with the alive monsters left on the map.

Thats basically the only way in coop to know if everything is dead.

By the way, myk, have you got my message about this feature to implement in your port ? (timer.exe desynchs with doom2 coop max demos)

If you add the enemy stats to the overlay you can see how many monsters the map contains and how many are dead. Add 'e' to the 'overlay' console command. For all available options type 'overlay kahmfes' into the console. Dunno if you'd be interested.

Vince I do use that tasDoom feature but have zero experience with timer.exe

Rellik I do use the overlay, and what a wonderful thing it is. I am just not sure how many others use it, so would love the see the port try to give credit.

Edit: typo

Rellik said:

If you add the enemy stats to the overlay you can see how many monsters the map contains and how many are dead. Add 'e' to the 'overlay' console command. For all available options type 'overlay kahmfes' into the console. Dunno if you'd be interested.

hmm, neither eternity or prboom support the command 'overlay'.

And they are the only ones that are doom2 v1.9 100% compatible.

If your command is in zDoom, sorry but it has 0 % v1.9 compatibility.
Thats not what I am looking for.

EDIT: actually zDoom does not support this command either... or maybe in a newer version that I have not downloaded yet.

As far as I can tell, Legacy's Overlay command just gives the same HUD options as were introduced in Boom (kills, items and secrets totals), but enables you to customize them more freely.

Just in case you're unaware of this Boom feature (available in Eternity, Prboom and doubtless other Boom-based ports), you display them by enlarging the display area (from normal display with a status bar, pressing plus gives you full screen; pressing plus again gives you this special HUD.

It doesn't tell you how many monsters are alive though - just how many have been killed, and how many there were in the map initially.

Grazza said:

As far as I can tell, Overlay just gives the same HUD options as were introduced in Boom (kills, items and secrets totals), but enables you to customize them more freely.

Just in case you're unaware of this Boom feature, you display them by enlarging the display area (from normal display with a status bar, pressing plus gives you full screen; pressing plus again gives you this special HUD.

It doesn't tell you how many monsters are alive though - just how many have been killed, and how many there were in the map initially.

Thats what regular prboom shows, and its very useless for me.
I want to check if I have any alive monsters in a map (0 alive monsters being my goal).
But in coop doom2 never shows infight kills which ends with <100% kills on the stats screen.
PRboom HUD counter shows the kills done by the current player, not even the kills by the other play.

A counter totalkill / total monsters can be inacurate too : imagine that a couple monsters are resurrected, one flees and you kill all the others. So you get a total kills greater than the total monsters, but still one monster is alive.

So only the 'X alive monsters' counter is a viable solution to check kills in a demo, especially a coop one. I suppose a console command or a HUD setting could trigger that easy.

Yes, I was just clarifying what Legacy's Overlay command did.

When a monster is ressurected / spawned (like lost souls) the counter doesn't change in Legacy? If not I'll have to make sure it works in the new Legacy.

Lost souls shouldn't go toward the kill count.

Rellik said:

When a monster is ressurected / spawned (like lost souls) the counter doesn't change in Legacy? If not I'll have to make sure it works in the new Legacy.

no, every resurrected monsters that is killed add +1 to the counter.
So the kills counter gets higher than total monsters in map => no way to know if everything is dead.

Add a 'X alive monsters' counter to legacy and also make it 100% vanilla compatible :)