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Bashe

SSG in Doom!

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There's probably a wad like this, but I made a wad that puts the super shotgun in Doom. Worth a look if you like the SSG.

Here you go.

You can only get it if you use codes or summon one in front of you. There are no pickups.

Also, it doesn't work with doom.exe. Only source ports. Sorry.

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Bashe said:

Also, it doesn't work with doom.exe. Only source ports. Sorry.



Only source ports which remove the stupid restrictions from the code. Are there others than ZDoom?

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They are certainly not stupid restrictions, especially in the original code, where DOOM and DOOM II are two separate games and must be treated as such. Source hacks can remove the restriction, I suppose, as it's possible to transfer some graphics from one game to the other without causing anyone any harm.

Bashe, no pick ups? Why?

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That restriction in doom.exe is that you can't select a second weapon by pressing 3. Though picking it up is no problem.
If pick it up is all you need, and you don't bother reselecting it (which isn't possible because of that restriction), all you need is the sprites and sounds in the wad and place the ssg somewhere in the map! The ssg is selected when you pick it up and don't have one yet. Unfortunately this is the only way with vanilla doom.exe.

Doom.exe 1.5beta had not that "stupid" restriction as it complains with a missing sprite error when you idkfa and press 3. (So much for the supidity ;) A somewhat more intelligent method would be checking for the sprite, and if it is not there, don't select the ssg. That way, this would not interfere with cheat codes.

Placing Doom2 monsters should work as well, providing sprites and sounds are there.

Somewhat more usefull is replacing one of the other weapons with the ssg in Dehacked, so you can select it at any time. I tried this long time ago, and it worked.

Btw.: mapping just for Doom2 would be easier. ;)

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As far as I know, something like this would be ZDoom only. Also, Enjay did something like this a while back, as I recall.

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LogicDeLuxe said:

Placing Doom2 monsters should work as well, providing sprites and sounds are there.



No. Doom2 monsters are explicitly excluded from being spawned in Doom1. What's worse the code contains a bug that exits the function immediately skipping all other objects which come after that monster.
Even most source ports still have this restriction (instead the useful one which is looking for the sprite data.)
By changing the editor numbers in Dehacked you can get past this, though.

Another thing is the Megasphere which cannot be picked up at all in Doom1. Again this totally needless restriction is still present in almost all source ports even though you can place it in a map if you provide the sprites.

Doom2's decorations work in Doom1, however.

AFAIK ZDoom is the only source port which doesn't perform any gamemode checks at all when using an item. There is no differentiation between Doom1 and Doom2 except the episode layout.

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Graf Zhal--does that mean that if I changed editor number to one not used and then manually put that number in to place the thing, would it work in The Ultimate Doom? 'Cause I was absolutely heartbroken when Doom 2 things weren't being spawned.

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myk said:

Source hacks



Beware, there's a Myk hack coming... :-D

Grimm said:

Graf Zhal--does that mean that if I changed editor number to one not used and then manually put that number in to place the thing, would it work in The Ultimate Doom? 'Cause I was absolutely heartbroken when Doom 2 things weren't being spawned.



That will work for the monsters, if you provide the sprites for them. All Doom.exe checks is the editor number - nothing else.
The Megasphere spawns as is but can't be picked up.
There are also some problems with the SSG that were mentioned here but again changing the editor number isn't necessary

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Graf Zahl said:

Beware, there's a Myk hack coming... :-D


Heh, while we're on the subject are there any mirrors of the Doom sourcecode for the benefit of those who want to get their grubby, potato chip-greasey hands on it while ID's download page is still down?

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Graf Zahl said:
Beware, there's a Myk hack coming... :-D

Lay off my cock, you fag.

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myk said:

Lay off my cock, you fag.



Not if you continue to persistenly insult all the programmers that keep Doom alive.

Infinite Ammunition said:

Heh, while we're on the subject are there any mirrors of the Doom sourcecode for the benefit of those who want to get their grubby, potato chip-greasey hands on it while ID's download page is still down?




The code is available in the /idgames archives at ftp://archives.3dgamers.com. But you won't be able to do much with it. In its released state it is simply too buggy and unstable to run on a modern OS without crashing. It's certainly interesting to look at but if you really want to mess around with it better start with a source port that got the most annoying bugs fixed.

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I'm suprised there are such many restrictions to things. The only usefull restriction I can imagine of is not to add the SSG when using the IDFA and IDKFA cheats.
All other checks are pretty useless as you know, they'll never be checked in Doom1, because those extra things simply don't exist in the maps, and therefor in Doom2, the check if Doom2 is running always is positive consequently.
A pitty they didn't thought of resrticting IDMUS, which surely would have been of more use.

I didn't checked, but I guess, the animations and switches from Doom2 wouldn't work either, providing the textures are there, of course.

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Ah, good news--not that it matters much. I'm gonna be ZDooming for most of my heavy bullshitting around. :)

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LogicDeLuxe said:

I didn't checked, but I guess, the animations and switches from Doom2 wouldn't work either, providing the textures are there, of course.



Animations fully work. Switches don't. Apparently they were programmed by different people. The guy who made the animation code dit think about it. The guy who did the switches code obviously did not.

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Graf Zahl said:

Animations fully work. Switches don't.

That's strange. The other way would even make slightly sence, as the animation table has to be updated all the time and shortening it for Doom 1 would save a few CPU cycles, though probably not remotely worth the effort. The extra switches never are touched at all in regular Doom 1, hence a restriction is completely useless.

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LogicDeLuxe said:

That's strange. The other way would even make slightly sence, as the animation table has to be updated all the time and shortening it for Doom 1 would save a few CPU cycles, though probably not remotely worth the effort. The extra switches never are touched at all in regular Doom 1, hence a restriction is completely useless.



The restriction with the switches is only due to an incompetent implementation. The guy who wrote the texture animation code checks whether the textures exist and ignores non-existing animations. The guy who wrote the switch code doesn't and instead has added a gamemode flag for each switch - restricting each one to the first mode where it exists and up. You can't even use registered switches in the shareware version. This stupidity is also responsible for all Doom1 switches being replaced with dummies in Doom2. Sadly, not one single source port has fixed this issue to my knowledge...

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Graf Zahl said:

This stupidity is also responsible for all Doom1 switches being replaced with dummies in Doom2.

What do you mean by dummies? I noticed, that some switches have different textures in Doom2, but the names are still identical to Doom1, which makes it a pain porting a map from Doom1 to Doom2. The very first switch in E1M8 is affected for example.
I guess, this is also pretty anoing when making the freedoom textures, as they are meant for both games.

Also I wonder, what is the purpose of AASTINKY?

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I believe the first texture is ignored by the engine, so that's just a placeholder. Notice that if you try to use it, it will not work.

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VolteFace said:

Notice that if you try to use it, it will not work.

That's because the engine only supports textures width with a power of 2 like 16 or 32, but AASTINKY is 24. The texture is not ignored, and in fact, it can be used, when the size is changed in TEXTURES1.
I just don't get the reason why it's there.

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No, trust me, it's a placeholder that can't be used (though it wouldn't tile correctly either). I'll guarntee, actually. Put in a custom texture in the first slot. It'll show up as a HOM.

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Grimm said:

No, trust me, it's a placeholder that can't be used (though it wouldn't tile correctly either). I'll guarntee, actually. Put in a custom texture in the first slot. It'll show up as a HOM.

Interesting. The same with Doom2's AASHITTY, which actually is a valid texture.

Apparently the guys at the Doom2 hires textures project didn't knew this either, as there are hires version of both AASTINKY and AASHITTY.

Apparently Doombuilder knows that, as AASHITTY does not appear in the list.

Is this restriction still there in all ports?

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It certainly is in ZDoom, and since that's about the most advanced, it's probably in all of them.

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You know, it surprising that id never redid doom/doom2 so that you could run either one as a single game (i.e. one iwad and one executable). They could have milked the franchise a little more. Either way, its something that could be useful for everyone. Anyway, keep up the good work!

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You mean like Super Mario Bros?
It wasn't really worth the time remaking them as the same game. Most people would of already had Doom if they were going to get Doom2.

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LogicDeLuxe said:
What do you mean by dummies?

They are duplicates of other switches. No graphics were included for them so they used the same graphics used for other switches.

All the restrictions for DOOM in respect to DOOM II follow the same concept used for the shareware's restrictions; so that users will have an incentive to register, or to buy the commercial game. Their implementation is according to the time worth spending on them in order to release a good game as soon as possible. People nitpicking on these implementations have had lots of time on their hands, and have done it in conjunction (various source hackers and critics combined) and with open source concepts in their minds, while the game, quite brilliant in its overall design, was made in a quite different context.

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