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Jehar

flat trasparensy?

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is it possible to have transparent flats? this way we could have some better looking deep water. imagine a water flat that was 1\2 transparent. you could see some into the water. that would kick ass.

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I believe legacy supports translucent flats. I dont know of any other ports with that capability though.

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There is a transparent floor in Nick Bakers Boom tricks WAD. It's somewhat limited though.

Assmaster said:

I believe legacy supports translucent flats. I dont know of any other ports with that capability though.

EDGE and maybe Vavoom.

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As I recall there was a fake transparent flat in AgentSpork's E1M3RC map.

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DooMBoy said:

As I recall there was a fake transparent flat in AgentSpork's E1M3RC map.


yeah, i took a look at that. it was just a custom flat though. doing the deep water shit as mentioned, you might be able to do it with a custom water flat that has cyan in it. i'm not sure, but have been thinking about giving it a whirl.

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Spunkman said:

doing the deep water shit as mentioned, you might be able to do it with a custom water flat that has cyan in it. i'm not sure, but have been thinking about giving it a whirl.

You know, there is no cyan in Doom's palette, don't you? Unless you design it for a port with truecolor support, this sure would look quite ugly, as the engine has to replace cyan with close matches, which won't be close at all.

Chances are there, that we might see translucent flat support in the next ZDoom.

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LogicDeLuxe said:

You know, there is no cyan in Doom's palette, don't you? Unless you design it for a port with truecolor support, this sure would look quite ugly, as the engine has to replace cyan with close matches, which won't be close at all.

Chances are there, that we might see translucent flat support in the next ZDoom.


i thought cyan translated into transparent? i mean, i know it does in textures, and since deep water is essentially sector/over sector, or at least faux sector/sector, i thought some cyan in fwater might allow you to see below the water level.

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Color #247 is transparent, you can set it to any color your want in your palette.
Wall textures and flats are rendered differently, there can't be transparent spaces in flats.

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ah. well, good to know. someone mentioned the next version of zdoom possibly supporting transparent floors, but outside of deep water, would there really be any need for it? i mean, i can see legacy having it because legacy can actually do true 3D floors.

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hrm... and what keeps the next version of zdoom\gl having 3d floors?

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i don't want zdoom to have 3d floors. i mean, you can only do so much before you're just making a new game.

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Spunkman said:

ah. well, good to know. someone mentioned the next version of zdoom possibly supporting transparent floors, but outside of deep water, would there really be any need for it?

Windows in the floor and ceiling for one.

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Spunkman said:

ah. well, good to know. someone mentioned the next version of zdoom possibly supporting transparent floors, but outside of deep water, would there really be any need for it?


You could have a grating texture and see the floor below it, usefull for quite a few effects.

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There is much use of translucent flats. Several discussions came up recently about portals on the ZDoom-Forum. Currently ZDoom has support for the skybox, though even with regular sky, translucent flats make sense. With slight modifications, stacked rooms, 3d bridges and translucent water could be made of portals. Hence it was pointed out that translucent floor would be easy possible with the current texture system. So I guess, we see both in the near future: translucent flats and stacked sector portals (you might know them from Shadow Warior and Blood).
Of course, no one has promised anything so far.
What we don't see anytime soon very likely is multiple floors in one sector (like Edge and Legacy support it), though. Those might be very useful for bridges, but tend to become very complex when building multi story buildings and are not that efficient (no reject map over stories possible, more collision detection required). Portals are the other way around, great for multi story buildings, but almost the same work to do for just a bridge.

And concerning the palette, there is no such thing as transparent color in Doom. The way Doom stored the graphics allowing use of all 256 colors and have gaps in it. Read the Doomspecs 1.666 if you don't believe!
What you actually have to appear as transparent is what the graphics editor makes transparent. With Deutex 4.4.0, you can specify any color with a command line parameter to be transparent, for example.
Cyan is frequently used for that purpos because it's save since there actually is no cyan.

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Try using ALL index 255 in a wall graphic and see what happens with DOOM and various ports. You might be surprised. I posted that quite some time ago since a part of the DOOM code made me curious about this. Not sure where where the ports stand on this since I haven't rechecked, but you can check them all again if you like. I put it on a 1-sided wall. Make sure you actually end up with 255 as the index, since I did something to force that to happen, but I can't remember ATM. The test file is somewhere on my hd. Should probably retest to make sure - too much to do right now.

Cyan (or rather the index value Wintex uses by default) is not a safe index since DOOM actually uses that index. So it's a combination of both the index and RGB it represents(both arbritrary) that needs to be considered. The other problem with using Cyan at 247 is that if you use PSP (for example) to do a palette match using a palette taken from an image exported by Wintex, you end up risking using Cyan as an actual color if palette matching.

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Spunkman said:

i don't want zdoom to have 3d floors. i mean, you can only do so much before you're just making a new game.


It isn't making a new game, providing they are used properly - too many people over do it with 3d floors.

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deep said:

Try using ALL index 255 in a wall graphic and see what happens

Can't you just tell us what happens? You can type it out faster than I can go palette-fucking I'm sure...

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