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i just wanna play

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i just want to play doom against other people, is this how i get there?

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CodeImp said:

No, thats how you would like him to get there.

I have no preference, but if you read the link...

Don't forget you can also play using different ports at Doom Connector and Skulltag is now a brilliant option.

, with a nice hyperlink to Doom Connector.

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Yes, I know, but that topic as a hole is very subjective and I am a bit picky on subjective things lately. As a webmaster/article writer its very important to stay objective IMO, but thats tough when you have an opinion and this isnt much of a website/article either, so im not really blaming you, just ignore me :P

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Depends on what you mean by "better."

But - as far as I can tell, ZD is the multiplayer client used by most (and I mean MOST) of the still-active gods (when they're not playing doom2.exe).

If you want better graphics, ZDaemon 2.0 will be released within the next few months, and will include OpenGL and hi res texture support.

But yeah - ZDaemon is THE port, in my opinion, if you want DOOM II multiplayer action.

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killer9 said:

No.

Somewhat isolated in your own little world maybe?


Theres a bunch of engines that allow for multiplayer online, however, some are better optimized for multiplayer than others. ZDaemon is indeed a good choice and so is Skull Tag (which is unfortunately for no good reason always mentioned as some sort of alternative). Then there is ofcourse ZDoom which is always on top when it comes to new editing features, there is Doom Legacy and jDoom which have the OpenGL to make it look fancy, but they play somewhat with a different feeling and tend to be senstitive to lag.

ZDaemon comes with its own launcher, for the others (and for ZDaemon as well if you wish) you can use Doom Connector or IDE to get online and find servers. Note that these are launchers for multiplayer, not engines. You need an engine and a launcher (or know an IP address from the top of your head).

Best thing to do is to try them all and see what you prefer.

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Its a crime to constantly place Skulltag second to Zdaemon, just because Zdaemon is more popular.

Its only so popular because 150 people come to dogmatise ZD as the one true solution everytime someone asks how to play doom online. Thus dragging more people onto the bandwagon and continuing the cycle.

If people did the same thing for Skulltag, the tables would start to turn very rapidly. Whenever I've answered this question, I've always suggested Skulltag _and_ Zdaemon, but sod being objective, from now on I'm a Skulltag pimp.

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Exactly. ZDaemon is just another example of the popularity effect at work. I mean, few people use Skulltag at one time, but those ZDaemon servers can have a LOT of people on. I ask, why?? What does ZDaemon have that Skulltag does not? I find it totally illogical to use a considerably more buggy port than Skulltag, which can play the exact same types of wads and has extra features.

Then again, it also tends to be the case that the popularity effect is illogical. ¬_¬

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Who says you even have to? Skulltag has lots of new items sure, but load up a classic deathmatch wad and everything is exactly the same as it's always been. You might have taken the time to discover that before you decided to piss on it from a high place.

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The thing is just that people tend to post their preference instead of giving a straight answer. Nothing wrong with posting your opinion, but although it may look that way to the one asking the question (because you didnt tell its only your opinion), its not an answer to the question at all.

In the case of a website or tutorial, this may be very misleading to new users. When the question "What do I need to play Doom online?" is to be answerred, and the writer of the site or tutorial is being subjective by listing only the things he or she prefers to use, the one searching for that answer will actually take that for a correct answer, because he or she doesnt know any better. And unfortunately when you ask to include the other options as well (how come Doom Connector and Skull Tag suddenly come to mind?) they are noted at the bottom of the page like "oh and there is also this alternative" instead of properly compiled into the same list/tutorial/description, because it is not how the writer would like to see it.

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CodeImp said:

The thing is just that people tend to post their preference instead of giving a straight answer. Nothing wrong with posting your opinion, but although it may look that way to the one asking the question (because you didnt tell its only your opinion), its not an answer to the question at all.

Ah, but it is the nature of conversation to change subject, right?

I would've posted "all the options" if no one else had, but it had already been established, so there was nothing much for me to post but opinions.

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chilvence said:
Who says you even have to? Skulltag has lots of new items sure, but load up a classic deathmatch wad and everything is exactly the same as it's always been.

Not really; we're taking about engines with "public" servers here. For the most part people play what there is, and the main (stable) batch of servers related to a developing engine are usually somewhat tied to the development team... for development reasons, as long as the development is healthy. Most players do not decide server settings, and settings will tend to cover what's possible for the engine, using its main features. This obviously happens in an individual basis to a degree, but in the case of client/server, the correlation between engine specs and what you'll have available to play is quite strong. Furthermore this "popularity" is players interacting, editing wads and playing; not something to dump in five minutes for features which aren't part of the actual game.

CodeImp said:
but they play somewhat with a different feeling and tend to be senstitive to lag.

I assume you mean they don't try to fake it.

The thing is just that people tend to post their preference instead of giving a straight answer.

Yeah, I know; like you did on your preceding post.

Objectivity on a website is pretty pointless, though, since these are generally about particular things, not generalizations that pretend to listen to everybody. Being clear isn't bad, though, and that's usually when you write what you're convinced is best to write. You've got "objectivity" in the site downloads section (more so if it's kept up to date.)

Plus who cares which engine is most popular... Someone can simply say one is best, celebrating it; that should hurt no one. At least no one that's sane.

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Noone thats sane replies "no, use zdaemon!!11one" to every multiplayer question. Better to give the user a list of options he can choose from, because there ARE options.

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Look myk, none of what you said has anything to do with why I'm pissed off. I dont have any intrest in fighting a holy war for Skulltag until it is the one true ultimate champion of Doom online, such a notion is completely ridiculous. I'm just pissed because everytime multiplayer is mentioned, 50 people zoom in to promote their precious ZDaemon, when clearly it is not the one in need.

Now I enjoy ZDaemon, I play it every odd week or so, and as people have said, it is easy to find a challenging game, and the servers are always full. But (gosh, golly!) I would actually like to fire up Skulltag maybe once a week as well, to enjoy some its alternative experience, or maybe a game of Coop in which my monitor does not attempt to inflict epilepsy on me! Unfortunatley, It doesnt work, because players are gradually funneled toward ZDaemon thanks of this knee-jerk reflex favouritism. If I really want to play using Skulltag, I have to be patient. Or lucky. So I am sad.

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chilvence said:

Its a crime to constantly place Skulltag second to Zdaemon, just because Zdaemon is more popular.

Its only so popular because 150 people come to dogmatise ZD as the one true solution everytime someone asks how to play doom online. Thus dragging more people onto the bandwagon and continuing the cycle.

If people did the same thing for Skulltag, the tables would start to turn very rapidly. Whenever I've answered this question, I've always suggested Skulltag _and_ Zdaemon, but sod being objective, from now on I'm a Skulltag pimp.


In my opinion, ZD and ST are very comparable, as far as customization features go, and in fact, ST has a couple of things that I would like to see in ZD (and they will be put in for the 2.0 ZD release), but ZD has ceratin advantages over ST.

For one - perhaps due to popularity - ZD has a global base to work with. There are, as I type this, 161 ZD servers active, all around the world. Even at almost 3:00 AM, there are thirty players online. I just logged on to ST for the first time in probably a year, and found about six or seven servers, all with terrible ping (I'm spoiled - 100+ = terrible to me), and no players logged on. On ZD, there are currently 18 servers which I ping <50 to, and several are in the 30s. Those are some excellent pings.

In fact, there wasn't even a SINGLE "oldschool" deathmatch server online. To me, this is dissapointing.

In a related topic, oldschool DM is where it's at, in my opinion, even though CTF if picking up popularity on ZD. The point is - the active gods of the game all play ZD mostly on oldschool servers (that I know of) when they're not playing doom2.exe, and you will find them pretty much exclusively on ZD's old deathmatch servers. This means you won't find many legendary players playing some map with bounce pads and rail guns. No offense to those of you that are into those things. It's definitely not for me though. Not in DOOM anyway.

That brings even another advantage ZD has - user accounts.

User accounts help out a lot. First, there's a buddies system, making it easy to find a specific player, even when there are 150+ servers online at the time. Secondly, exp and levels are integrated into the user accounts, and this is cool because it is something for the player to be pround of and build up - it records stats, and that is just cool.

Also, ZD's user-community is very active and truly ARE a community. Weekly, there are ZSessions. ZSessions is a time when players get together on a server and play a lesser-known-wad for an hour or two. There is one for Euro severs and one for US serndvers, once weekly.

Tournaments are regularly held, and several (quite a lot) of users participate in the tournaments.

What else?

The future of ZD is simply awesome. For those of you that are into enhanced DOOM graphics, version 2.0 will be released in the next couple of months, featuring high res texture support as well as OpenGL support. And of course, that's just the tip of the iceberg of the features to come with 2.0, but man -

THE POINT IS - ZDaemon's popularity may be it's greatest strength, as both programs are somewhat comparable as far as features go, but as long as ZD is more popular, with WAY more players (including some of the very best players out there like Ocelot, Dev, Hi Jango, etc) and such things as user-accounts and the flat-out awesome-ness of the upcoming 2.0, ZD is the way to go. In fact, honestly, in light of these things, there's barely any reason at all to mess with Skulltag. One might say, "if ST were as popular as ZD..." Well, it's not. Not even close. And as long as that's the case, why spend your time somewhere where nobody plays?

ZD is just the greatest thing to happen to online DOOM in years.

--In my opinion.

EDIT - Oh yeah, I almost forgot to mention - STRIFE support in 2.0! How cool is that? It bugs me a little bit that ZD isn't going to remain exclusively DOOM oriented, but it will be cool to expose new people to Strife. And hey - this will be (truly) the only way to play Strife online.

So yeah, I guess that's all (for now).

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Thank you for telling me a load of shit that I already know. Well done, I'm sure you will make us all proud. Every thing you have just written could have been condensed into one sentence: "Skulltag is shit because nobody like it! Nyaaa!". All of those benefits arise from the size of the community it has, rather than any by merit of the program itself (apart from the user accounts) Only the upcoming switch to 2.0 has actually piqued my intrest in the program again.

Thats getting back to my original point again, which you so deftly sidestepped. ZDaemon is popular, because it is popular, and theres nothing more to it than that.

I told you, I'm just as willing to play ZD as I am Skulltag, and I do drop round both websites to see whats going on. I'm not a clueless Skulltag fanboy. I just want people to stop pissing on it, so that maybe it can have a fair share of the popularity effect. You'd think it was your mission to stave it into the ground or something based on the content of your post.

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chilvence, you might know it, but it isn't necessarily obvious on the thread, which is what matters. But, also, you ignored the (material) explanation as to why I gave above. You took it as unrelated information.

And, by what you're saying, you're putting some bug fixes or features SkullTag has above the work (development, play, support, etc.) of the ZDaemon community.

You seem to take it like one has "random" poularity, when it has to do with community activity and the engine's specs tend more toward DOOM and not something else.

SkullTag's philosophy was always "a new school" thing. It's not surprising things are as they are.

By the way, where did mje say anything about SkullTag being "shit"?

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Id almost reply "stfu already" now.

You fail to realize that the user searching for an answer doesnt know any better and takes the first given "answer" as a correct answer, even if its complete bullshit. Maybe if there were more retarded SkullTag fans that would reply to each such question with a "no, use skulltag!!11one" message, it possibly could get more popular as well.... but would also get that "bunch of morons" imago.

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myk said:
By the way, where did mje say anything about SkullTag being "shit"? [/B]


I said he might as well have done, since thats the impression someone would get.

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chilvence said:
I said he might as well have done, since thats the impression someone would get.

Would is way too strong a word here. Perhaps might if they had a the idea that enumerating (and praising) one engine's qualities means calling another engine crap.

CodeImp said:
You fail to realize that the user searching for an answer doesnt know any better and takes the first given "answer" as a correct answer, even if its complete bullshit.

They do? I don't. Do you?

And I mean in general in regards to a new subject (naturally DOOM-relatedly we don't even need to go around asking stuff.)

You may not like that tribal behavior. It may be stupid in some ways and from some people. But that's not really what's defining things here; it's just a factor, even a secondary effect to more relevant occurrences. And to say that that is what defines the popularity of an engine isn't particularly lucid.

People will try things, not necessarily everything, and not everyone will try more than one thing, but if they were to accept any first reply as correct, why does anything matter? If they are that stupid, why bother saying or doing anything?

To me the belief that an engine is popular due to one-line pimping is a total lack of faith for the users of said engine who should, according to such belief, supposely be able to see that this other eninge's just as good or better. But that is their choice. Not the choice of what's supposedly better according to someone's idea, or the choice of some scribbled "X is the best!"

"Hey, the ZDaemon team and it's horde of mindless users are brainwashing everybody!"

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