Will the storyline be good...

...or will it be vauge like the DOOM story line. I like detailed story lines. Do you guys want a deep, intricate storyline or a vauge "They attack, everyones dead, you survived, you have a gun, kick some ass" type storyline?

I would like to see a nice deep storyline that is built of throughout the entire game (like SS2) but is introduced in a much move involving way (like HL). And a nice long ending that wraps it up would really make my day.

id already stated that DOOM's storyline will "dwarf anything done previously by id". Of course, that's not much of a real information, but it's promising.

As long as it's not as bad as Quakes storyline which was basicaly 'somethings attacking Earth from another deminsion...oh no, find out what it is and kill it'.

At least Doom had some flavor, like the U.A.C., a snippet of storyline telling how you got to Mars, and at least remotely identifying your enemies' nature (we all know they are from Hell, but not much more).

Despite what everyone says, however, Q2 had a pretty good storyline.

If Doom's storyline is half as good as Half-life's, then we're in for a treat.

but is introduced in a much move involving way (like HL).

Without that annoying, little voice please.

Dwarfing anything id did previously really doesn't say much.

Of course, I think people are confusing "storyline" with "intro" or "setting" to some extent. Half-Life has a story-line. Your objectives change, the situation changes and progresses, you interact with people and things (albeit in a largely linear way).

Whereas with Doom, Quake, and Quake 2, there was less of a storyline.

Doom - First what, you want to survive? So why doesn't your guy go for the escape ship or something? Unclear. Then you decide to go to hell. Or are you made to go to hell? And so on, if there's a story, and there probably is, it's a pretty confused and poorly told one. The game is a classic, the story is not.

Quake - As Danarchist says...

Quake 2 - No real storyline that I noticed. Just like, you're dropped on a planet, something goes wrong, you land on your own, and then what? You try to rejoin your force? Seems that way, but you end up just wandering along until you get to the final boss and kill him. There doesn't seem to be any reason for it, or really for any of the levels. It's just "find the keycard, find the exit" sorta stuff.

I don't deny that it had an interesting background and setting. I didn't see much evidence of a storyline, though.

Half-Life - First you're just a scientist, just doing your job. Then it all goes to hell, you try to escape to the surface, but your route is blocked, so you have to find an alternate way out, then the military arrives, starts killing everybody, forcing you to re-think your escape plan again, and so on, the story progresses until eventually you HAVE to go and deal with the aliens, because no-one else is about to do it, and it's more or less the only way to avoid being killed by one side or the other.

So it does have a storyline, which does actually progress. Unreal does too, though it is less clear, because of the lack of NPCs, and I would say it's more or less on par with Q2 story-wise, in practice.

Doom 3 will have to be a big leap. We know this, id know this, and I think they will make it. It will take some effort, though...

Quake 2 - No real storyline that I noticed. Just like, you're dropped on a planet, something goes wrong, you land on your own, and then what? You try to rejoin your force? Seems that way, but you end up just wandering along until you get to the final boss and kill him. There doesn't seem to be any reason for it, or really for any of the levels. It's just "find the keycard, find the exit" sorta stuff.

Well yes, though I think id did a better job than most other FPS developers at the time. The intro movie was really cool (Paul Steed should be doing the DOOM 3 intro movie, goddammit). If you read the little intro story in the manual, then listened carefully to the intro movie, there actually was some sense to the story, and a certain involvement in it.

The game structure itself wasn't like Quake's "walk trough castles and bases, killing bizarre monsters for no apparent reason". It was about achieving military objectives you got trough your mission briefings.

I liked the radio chatter especially. "Entering factory, reports of troops being... *pause* being disassembled."

We're taking about Q2, an old game by today standards. There's incredible potential in that setting, but the game was made in a time when NPCs either present of "talking" through comm links, scripted sequences, and all that good stuff was just in it's first steps.

Quake 4 by Raven will prove to be something really fantastic if they archieve the war/conflict atmosphere Q2 had, combined with all the tools we have today for storytelling.

Quake's storylines are bad in my opinion

Well thanks for such a well-thought input.

I disagree, the Quake storylines are perfect launch points for great, moody games. Afterall, Quake 1's plot is just DooM's plot with certain twists.

Quake 2 deals with a conflict between humanity and a slighty more advanced parasitic race that selected the Earth as their next objective in their nomadic behavior.

Quake 3 deals with the idea of an hyperadvanced race amused by duels.

While all the Quakes tackled these stories in a simple way, it is obvious that you can make a lot with them.

Half-Life's nothing more than a Quake1-with-better-storyline. And that's a game so many people consider the "best damn plot ever" (something I disagree).

The beauty of Half-Life is in the many little touches and details, like the scripted sequences. At one point in the game, a Barney runs up to you to tell you something, then gets shot by an assassin's bullet mid-sentence. To make that, Valve made a 200kB .wav file for the voice, made a specific animation routine, and took the time to implement the script in WorldCraft - all this for something that's used only once in the game.

That's the difference between Quake2 and Half-Life : In Quake2, that would have never happened. id's design philosophy has always revolved around simplicity, flexibility and smooth gameplay. From what I've seen and heard, I believe id is going to break this tradition. They're obviously taking their time to put in a lot of cool details that appear only once or twice in the game. The urinals in the bathroom scene, for example, or the monster in the MacWorld video jumping over the railing.

id isn't the same company like they were seven years ago. Thank God.

id isn't the same company like they were seven years ago. Thank God.

Amen.

Doom - First what, you want to survive? So why doesn't your guy go for the escape ship or something? Unclear. Then you decide to go to hell. Or are you made to go to hell? And so on, if there's a story, and there probably is, it's a pretty confused and poorly told one. The game is a classic, the story is not

/me sighs

The reason he chose to fight was not just because if he didn't we wouldn't have a game, but he was completly pissed about all his comrades being killed, and he wanted to try to end the evil, before it got to earth.

Did you really expect him to be such a pussy and run away? Maybe you would, AND GOD FORBID maybe even I would, if I knew there wasn't a chance in hell. But he fought bravely to the end (sucks that all he got for it was to get stuck in the eternal arena in q3 though).

If no one underst00d my post please tell me, because I sure as hell don't understand it.

On Quake 2:

The game structure itself wasn't like Quake's "walk trough castles and bases, killing bizarre monsters for no apparent reason". It was about achieving military objectives you got trough your mission briefings.

Yes, and also note, there were some pretty involving parts in that game, such as dismantling the Big Gun, assassinating Makron, and the part where you realize they aren't just imprisoning your comrades, but using them for their own twisted needs...
And if you play the expansion packs, they add even more detail.

I liked the radio chatter especially. "Entering factory, reports of troops being... *pause* being disassembled."

Woah, I missed that one. I thought that they were mostly just a bunch of military chatter. Things like 'wet sector' and such...

Yeah, those sentences were pretty good
There are a few like that.
If you can catch them.
The way that it was said, then the machine around the corner. done well.

Report's of troops being.......Disasembled.
hmm.
If they add more of that.
Cool. adds to atmosphere

I want Doom to be very story-centric. I want to have a story that my actions in-game would have a direct impact on. I want to be able to choose between two resolutions for a situation, and have at least a little change in the overall story and the environment because of it.

Here's a thought: You might be able to fail some of your objectives in the game without losing the game completely. Whether you suceed or fail in some of these little things, along with whichever path you choose to take when you're offered two or more, could ultimately determine the story's final resolution. You might be able to save the world completely, or you might beat the last boss just... a little too late.

Maybe express your final score in the percentage of humanity not killed.

I think Doom 1 expressed the storyline plenty through it's kick-butt level design. I mean, thinking you're in the darkest corners of hell was pretty cool. BRING BACK JOHN ROMERO!

BRING BACK JOHN ROMERO!

He wanted to leave?

BRING BACK JOHN ROMERO!

He wanted to leave?

He already did.

Yeah, bring Romero back so he can design some kick-ass levels as he recently did in Daikatana.

Personally, I think daikatana sucks as an overall rating.
It has good graphics, good scipted secuences, but it's TOO LINEAR.