The Paralysis of Evolution

Is conservation getting in the way natural selection. It just seems to me that the tree huggers never understood the concept of 'survival of the fittest.'

Nature will ALWAYS balence itself out. It will find ways of carrying on with life through meteors and nuclear explosions. No doubt the next inheritors of this planet will be the cockroaches which will split become new animals, perhaps a new civilisation with it's own inane god. The cycle will continue until this planet is incinerated or frozen.

Surely it can find a way out of;
- Global Warming
- Pollution
- Being Hunted.

Or perhaps dumbing down our animals is for the best.

Discuss.

The Earth will survive of course. That's not the issue. It's whether it will continue to be a fit place for humans to live.

I suppose you have a point. But if a species has to die out, I'd rather it not be because of human interference.

I'm predicting something more along the lines of Dune, were humans take control of the universe after spreading to a million planets. Granted I wont be around to relish in the politics of it all.

Conservationism is as arbitrary as anything else we do. It's just a reaction to what we perceive as damaging to our habitat. And you can't generalize about it... that would be like putting taking care of the trash that's bound to rot at your front porch on the same level as being bitchy about anyone smoking anywhere. It's neither pointless nor salvation.

Also, life is sickness. There's always some issue to deal with. It's like owning a computer. You know. Perhaps our end will come sometime relatively soon in the measureless course of eternity. But if so, should we really care? And how? We'll all die anyway, separately or not... what is the difference between the magnitude of each our deaths and the end of all humanity?

Humans have far too much control over the planet. Agent Smith said it best when he told Neo that humans are more of a virus than a mammal.

We do need to respect our conservation of ourselves, but we need to stay conscious of our conservation of the planet.

It'd be great if everybody stopped having kids for a couple decades, but oh well. We're all destined to die.

Humanity über Alles.

When earth strikes back, it'll be those "tree huggers" who'll actually have the knowledge and will to survive without modern comforts. So you better make friends with some hippies REAL QUICK, or earn your Wilderness Survival badge.

On a whole, humans may be stupid when it comes to keeping their environment in working order. But when it comes down to it, the people are still smart enough to dig themselves out of a hole. Global warming will be slowed to a crawl after the alternative fuel phase kicks in, right about the time fossil fuels become "endangered".

I think JAnderson has a point. I mean who's to say the fact that we've evolved into beings intelligent enough to create methods of destroying the world isn't nature's way of eventually selecting us for extinction?

Numbermind said:

When earth strikes back, it'll be those "tree huggers" who'll actually have the knowledge and will to survive without modern comforts.

Doubt it. If resources get slim people standing in the way of a persons survival will get strung up.

Survival of the fittest has to do with reporduction and genes (remeber the Tribbles). But conservation is only possible in a resource rich society.

Relica Religia said:

Humans have far too much control over the planet.

I second that

Grazza said:

The Earth will survive of course. That's not the issue. It's whether it will continue to be a fit place for humans to live.

Humans are quite arrogant to assume that whether or not the earth survives is in direct correlation as to whether or not it's habitable for human life.

yea we are only a newborn to this planet. at most our species is about 200,000 years old, however numbers vary from 300,000 to 65,000. and we havnt been the only "humans"
some species are very old, as is their families. in some cases there is only 1 surviving species that represents an order, example being the tartu(bad spelling) it is an animal with a massive lifespan, around 100+ years.
some things are new
grass for example. its everywhere, but dinosuars didnt get to taste it.
our actions are changing things, often to the worst. however we do have the technology to change that, and even to prevent certian things (like comet or meteor strike)

Heh, what an idiot

The whole purpose of conservation and biodiversity is to keep things interesting, basically, if britain's wild areas where left wild, they would all be oak forests full of owls and mice, biodiversity lets more animals exist and basically makes 'nature' more interesting to look at

As for the other bullshit, you seem like one of those people who hates the human race and secretly wishes we all die, well start with yourself!

And as for "tree huggers never understood survival of the fittest", well thats probably a way of secretly saying you want to beat them up and kill them, which doesnt suprise me, reminds me of some christian going on about "those pathetic PETA terrorists", the same one who said that a kid who was mauled by one of the royal family's dogs "deserved it" for freely playing in a public park, and then was going on about how he hated democracy and wished america was ruled by a monarchy

Sephiroth said:

some species are very old, as is their families. in some cases there is only 1 surviving species that represents an order, example being the tartu(bad spelling) it is an animal with a massive lifespan, around 100+ years.

Do you mean the tuatara? They are cool - their lifespan may be well over 100 years.

deathbringer: Biodiversity has far more importance than just "making nature more interesting" for humans to look at - if that were all there was to it, it would indeed be rather an indulgence. Take a look at this for instance. The world is shaped by the creatures that inhabit it - if a species is removed, it has repercussions.

Look the bottom line is that it is all about the Woo Wooooooo.

that was the animal, tuatara.
it is lizard like, also on that island is the worlds largest insect. a giant criket like things.

You mean this. The one on the first pic looks like a DOOM 3 monster. apparently the tuatara eats them.

Relica Religia said:

Humans have far too much control over the planet. Agent Smith said it best when he told Neo that humans are more of a virus than a mammal.

You realize that there will be a point were humans have so much control over the planet that both the planet and the creatures on it will benefit.

Provided we don’t "alls blow up" as suggested in the comical video link I posted last night that may or may not have vaguely inspired this thread.

myk said:

You mean this. The one on the first pic looks like a DOOM 3 monster. apparently the tuatara eats them.

Heh, they used at least one weta in that scene in LOTR where they are hiding from the Ringwraiths.

numbermind said:

When earth strikes back, it'll be those "tree huggers" who'll actually have the knowledge and will to survive without modern comforts. So you better make friends with some hippies REAL QUICK, or earn your Wilderness Survival badge.

This is true. I can survive in the local wilderness indefinitely. I think I might need a refresher course on what to eat though.

myk said:

You mean this. ... apparently the tuatara eats them.

Kind of sad when you see one endangered species eating another. Rats are apparently the main threat to the giant weta though, according to that well-known book Which New Zealand Insect?.

I don't think nature is very endangered altogether. Humans may rule the planet, but there's enough nature to go around, still. Besides, the environmental awareness has improved significantly since the 20th century.

Earth strikes back? Exactly how would that happen? The only thing I can think of is either a new ice age or a mutated, deadly virus. But even in those cases, I think we'd be able to survive.

Eventually, I think humanity will indeed enter a space age, and long before that we would have solved the problems currently plaguing the world, both our and nature's problems.

Yeah, I'd say I'm pretty positive about the future :)

Grazza said:

Do you mean the tuatara? They are cool - their lifespan may be well over 100 years.

Check out the tail on that thing. Totally dinolike, and totally cool

deathbringer said:

Heh, what an idiot

Ouch.

Calm down dear, it's just an opinion.

Dude, I didn't suggest anywhere that I wanted humanity to die, at least not conciously, I have often attempted to kill myself often ending up in embarassing and hilarious predicaments, lol.

I don't think I need to beat the seven bells out of tree huggers as all the weed they had consumed have made most of them, but not all, either schozophrenic or paranoid. Of course I do respect their cause, protecting and saving lives is a noble cause.

Back on topic, I was merely suggesting that conservation was getting in the way of evolution. When an animal is affected by pollution there will be a way of adapting to it and by putting a quilt over them we aren't doing them any favours. A moth (I don't know it's species) is a perfect example. It's wings could camoflage it from animals against moss. The factories around it turned all plant life black. The moss winged moth could not hide. A mutation occured which turned the wings black, they could hide again. THe local inhabitants found the moths were getting fewer and fewer so they shut the factories down. The trees got their natural colour back the moths died out.

Back in the day, oxygen was a toxic waste product, the shit of plants basically, but modern and archaic life adapted to it. That's what I'm talking about.

Wouldn't evolution find its way past conservation?

Ralphis said:

Check out the tail on that thing. Totally dinolike, and totally cool

They're quite small though, and softer to the touch than you might expect from looking at them. Cool tuatara facts here; e.g.:

Scientists at Victoria University of Wellington have been breeding tuatara in captivity and have made an interesting discovery… Tuatara incubated at 21° C had a 50/50 chance of being born male or female, but at 22° C, 80% were likely to be males. At 20° C, 80% were likely to be females. At 18° C all tuatara hatched were female – what a cool discovery!

Dude, I didn't suggest anywhere that I wanted humanity to die

Oops, wrong thing..heh, actually its mainly the REALLY extreme "PETA Assholes" who want the human race to die, "cuz thats the onlie way to haev wlrd peece!", and of course, no conservation so everything in britian will die out, except Oak trees, Mice and Owls...and Grey squirrels, who will wipe out the native and endangered red squirrels