e-ziest level editor, I think

I've been using WadED ever since '96. It's the easiest Doom/Doom2 level editor out there. You can use line segments instead of sectors to make the level (which is, in actuality, a whole lot easier).

The only problem is that it limits the size of the WAD since its a DOS-based program, which really sucks if you wanna make a big ass level. However, I found Super WadED somewhere back in '98, and noticed that the beta was never finished. Matt Ayres, the author, went on to the Quake 2 level editing theme. Anyone know if Super WadED was ever finished?

No, I don't think there's anything newer than 1.83ß that works any good. To up the WadEd limits tho, just rem out any programs loaded from autoexec.bat and config.sys, I've done that and the sidedefs limit (which I always hit first) is 3150 sidedefs. Of course that aforementioned procedure cripples DOS pretty bad tho, but it doesn't affect Windows at all.

Do it in sections. I've got a map with 28,206 sidedefs and 3,694 sectors I did in WadEd. Took a while to get it organized to cut+paste properly, but it worked.

What editor did you use to cut->paste?

I've been using WadED ever since '96. It's the easiest Doom/Doom2 level editor out there. You can use line segments instead of sectors to make the level (which is, in actuality, a whole lot easier).

The only problem is that it limits the size of the WAD since its a DOS-based program, which really sucks if you wanna make a big ass level. However, I found Super WadED somewhere back in '98, and noticed that the beta was never finished. Matt Ayres, the author, went on to the Quake 2 level editing theme. Anyone know if Super WadED was ever finished?

Why do you care about making levels? They're positively anti-the original Doom.

May you rot in a small plastic container eternally.

What editor did you use to cut->paste?

WadAuthor.

Although Deepsea works just as well as long as you have "Paste As-Is" turned on.

Do you know something?

The state of WadEd and the lack of really similar editors (DeePSea or DCK are your best bet, but still not similar enough - they're both great, but I don't really work too well with either) has made me take up C++ coding so that I can actually make a new editor. One quite like WadEd.

However, I know so little of C++ it's not even funny. ATM I can add two numbers and print the result. Wow, I'm good :p

However, give me a year, and I might have a functional WAD viewer of sorts. Then whatever features I can implement will be added.

In short, there WILL be a new WadEd (Although it won't have the same name) if you don't mind waiting for it. Realistically, three years minimum, but anyway. I'm going to do it, dammit.

I just wish Matt Ayres was around at least SOMEWHERE so I could get the original WadEd code as a reference., if he still has it, which I doubt.

But anyway, wish me luck ;)

FOOTNOTE: Jack, if you're reading this, I hope you won't mind a few e-mails from me in the future for a little advice - I'd rather get it from someone who knows what they're doing. ;)

[Edit]
If anybody's interested, I'm mocking up (Again ;) a screen of what I want this editor to turn out like, but this time the mockup has some relevance, as it will most probably be what the interface will end up as.

.. I could get the original WadEd code as a reference.

Since it's DOS and I doubt you want to make it for DOS(?) it would just have made life harder for you:) Other sources will give you the basic info - Wintex, DEU/DETH, Windeu and DoomEd. Just be prepared for a famine in comments. I forget which is the worst - but none get above a C grade in that department:)

Once you get the basics down of C (suggestion: ignore C++ classes for now and stick with just C, with a little bit of C++ advantages) it will all make sense. The Doom file layout and how Windows "draws" will make displaying a level duck soup. This will be one of the simplest steps.

Start with a simple Windows pgm with a "window" (i.e., not console mode) and then add screen drawing (borrowing code from the 2 listed above). There are some sample drawing programs shipped with most compilers to get the basic flavor. Convert the "dot-to-dot" code with "line" code.

But anyway, wish me luck ;)

Ok, good luck.

I hope you won't mind a few e-mails from me in the future for a little advice

If it's easy:) The one thing you have to be aware of is that WadEd is Hexen deaf. Adding that functionality changes the whole design approach. There will be a point where one embraces dialogs in recognition of a more complex environment.

I'm mocking up (Again ;) a screen

Good, maybe I'll get some more ideas!

My next toolbar stuff might be a 2-column variation of what is already there. Or maybe a purpose built vertical section of the most common commands. I too have to do a mockup. FYI, if you have a compiler use the dialog tool to make your creation.

I sometimes have prototype dialogs built that take 8 months to finish. The latest linedef editing dialog is a good example. I did that early this year (as a mockup), but it took a bit for the code to match my thoughts. There's another one in the works for the toolbars - reducing control to just 2 keys + a dialog.

You could always right it for the new Amiga OS, that way your could use the editor inside Winblows, Linux, QNX, and few others, and not be restricted to just 1 OS.

i've heard about a new amiga about 9 months ago, but i never thought they'd release one (have they?). i mean, i still have a fully working amiga 500 in my bedroom.

Oh man, you got a lot of news to catch up on. :)

Yes there are a few new Amigas right around the corner (days even), as well as a new PPC native update of the Classic OS, and of course Amiga NG, which is there other new OS that can run by itself on an Amiga, or can run hosted within Winblows, Linux, Qnx, ect. Of course to code for it you will need to purshase the AmigaDE kit from:

amiga.com

and you can get all sorts of help on the #amiga channel on the openprojects IRC server.


Keep an eye on these sites:


amiga.com

amiga.org

ann.lu

As ever, Jack, thanks for pointers and that - it's welcome. Even though I thought you'd see this post and give me a condescending lecture on "Why would you want a new WadEd? DeePSea is PERFECTTTTTT!!!!!!111"... heh j/k

But anyway...

Since it's DOS and I doubt you want to make it for DOS(?) it would just have made life harder for you:)

I wouldn't have figured it would. Basically I'd see ANYTHING similar as being helpful, so I can see different ways of doing things... I know that the screen drawing and layout stuff would be irrelevant, but it's better to seek more help than need, than not enough, I figured.

I'll grab the source for the editors that have it available, anyhow.

Once you get the basics down of C (suggestion: ignore C++ classes for now and stick with just C, with a little bit of C++ advantages) it will all make sense.

Make sense? I'll be waiting for that day ;)
Seriously, I swear it's the hardest thing in the world to convert from knowing BASIC on one format to learning C on another... the book I'm going through ("Taking lessons from") has some great exercises that I look at and think 'I know how to do that!' - but I don't. I do in BASIC which is not really too good, but it's like relearning everything again. At least I have a start with coding though - a lot of the basics still seem to work.

The one thing you have to be aware of is that WadEd is Hexen deaf. Adding that functionality changes the whole design approach. There will be a point where one embraces dialogs in recognition of a more complex environment.

I'm working on something in this regard - this editor WILL support Hexen, hopefully.

I too have to do a mockup. FYI, if you have a compiler use the dialog tool to make your creation.

Like in Borland C++ Builder? I'm having a stab at that... actually I half made a window with all the buttons and everything, but thought I ought to at least get a working WAD reader/viewer working first before that... maybe I'm wrong there - but not understanding this lot is posing problems for me at this early stage, and yet I remain enthusiastic about the project. :))

But anyway, I have a few neat ideas for this editor, like a new name, some ideas for different features, and some stuff that'll make it quite unique as an editor... mostly fun stuff that can wait for now, of course.

I'll keep you posted, when I actually get anywhere, heh.

There is no better way to get into understanding of Editor design issues - than by coding one:)

If you know Visual Basic really well (not just Basic), then you understand how windows drives the code. That's 1/2 the battle. Basic makes it a little bit (lot) transparent since the way stuff interacts is "canned" (or done for you), however, a successful Visual Basic programmer understands Windows messaging.

It makes perfect sense to do the Mockup FIRST, since that will determine the code. IOW, the visual interface drives the code via "messages" to your code, not visa versa as in "classic" coding.

Although not 100% true (you have to go out of your way to code it differently), you can take that to the bank when designing something for a "windowed" interface with buttons and gadgets.

Then what you do is research how to make your design interact with your "windows". Most things are "windows", that includes dialogs, buttons, listboxes, etc. All with their own set of messages you need to code "actions" for.

I'd work from existing sample code first. Usually there's a hex dump example, a drawing example and a simple dialog example. Then combine those 3 into ONE program and get a basic idea of the flavor.

You could then just take one of the existing Editors and try to compile it and get it working. This will help you a lot (even if you don't understand all the details).

I think DoomEd is your best bet since Windeu used some Borland only code - not recommended - though some code elements will be useful. Stick with general purpose API's so you can switch compilers if you want to. DoomEd used MS Visual Studio (well an earlier version thereof).

Damn - I get the fun first, THEN the work... I usually prefer it the other way around....

But hell, I guess the struggle will be worth it, and I may actually go with the WinDEU source - both programs/compilers I use are Borland anyway, and I'm trying to stick with them ATM - they came on cover CDs, and with my limited budget, it's all I can get for now.

I'll get a mockup done, then link to it here for some feedback if people are interested, then.

I may actually go with the WinDEU source - both programs/compilers I use are Borland anyway,

If you knew C/C++ that would be cool, however, WinDeu uses OWL and that will almost certainly present you with conversion problems (and can't be ported to other compilers directly although one can substitute the original API calls to do the same thing).

My suggestion was only to work with a simpler source code (DoomEd) to make it easier to learn. There are a lot of things you can do in C that usually puzzle Basic coders to no end:)

Then tackle the WinDeu conversion.

P.S. As I recall, there are also some resources missing from the WinDeu sources, not a big deal for experienced coders, but again something that will confound you starting out.

P.S.2 I think this older stuff was coded for 16-bit settings, which may present you with some more issues when you use the 32-bit model - the size of data types change. I don't find that a big deal (more like a minor annoyance) - but again more problems for you.

ZDOOM Randy mentioned he had problems compiling DoomEd, but there's nothing in the code that's terribly hard to correct - patience is the key.

I converted the orginal 16-bit DeeP to 32-bit and was surprised how easy it all went. Took me 1 day. I made my own type definitions for int, char and all that stuff (which I do ALL the time now to avoid that problem once and for all). Basically a grunt find and replace typing job.

Of all the editors I've (attempted-for some anyway) used, DeePSea is my fave.
It has the ease-of-use I like, plus re-doing levels (hehehe)is a lot easier than I thought it would be.

[quoteWhy do you care about making levels? They're positively anti-the original Doom.

May you rot in a small plastic container eternally.[/quote]Rebuttal time, Katgut. Doomworld speaks about the playing of Doom. It also speaks of wads made, ports, TC's, etc. So, Doomworld is anti-the original Doom by that logic. And, since YOU are using Doomworld, in fact, a member of the forums of Doomworld, you're anti-the original Doom.

May you be eaten alive by hungry imps.

Having read many many of DEEP's posts, for many months here in Editing Forum, I just want to say this....
DEEP is a heckuva fine guy always helping people. I'm gonna have to buy his Editor. The guy really inspires confidence.
End of rant.