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dsm

Classic elements missing in Doom 3

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Ok, I felt like starting a thread about elements (everything really) that were in classic Doom games that didn't make it into Doom 3.

This is not a whining thread, just pointing out what isn't there.

So far, I've noticed this:

- No marines impaled on spears, neither the motionless ones or the ones that twitch, although Doom 3 has those ripped open torsos that twist and turn in agony (which I find pretty cool at that).

- I didn't see any marb faces in Hell or anywhere else, so for the time being, I'm gonna say that they aren't there.

- No wooden areas from what I gathered. This includes those doors with a cybie skull on it that were in the classic games.

- No Baron of Hell :~(

- No Arachnotron, oh well.

- No Pain Elemental, oh well.

- No Spider Mastermind, oh well.

- No boiling blood or water. I can live without both, but I'm a little disappointed about the lack of boiling blood - it could've looked so awesome in the Doom 3 engine with a bubbling red mass with steam and a slight heat haze rising from it. Oh well, I got lava and toxic waste - that'll do.

Anything you've noticed that's missing?

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You mention a lot of hell elements from the original Doom games there. I thought the Hell level (and a half) in Doom3 was awesome, but it would have definitely been interesting to see them take a more unique slant on hell than the predictable fire, chains and brimstone. The Doom3 engine would do green marble proud, as well.

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no idbeholdl? :)

Boiling blood would have been nice in hell. I didn't like their sterilized interpretation too much, although I suppose it technically looked very cool.

I really don't miss the Baron of Hell as much as everyone else seems to. If they had simply called it Baron of Hell would everyone say they miss the Hell Knight?

I kind of miss summaries of progress. I'd be amused if you got an email via PDA after each level saying your % kill, % items and % secret. Maybe even your time vs par time.

I was hoping for more "using the environment", such as devices you could use to aid in fights (maybe make a wall squish, a bridge retract, turn on electricity to broken wires, etc). The area where you dispose of the toxic waste is extremely cool.

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toxicfluff said:

You mention a lot of hell elements from the original Doom games there. I thought the Hell level (and a half) in Doom3 was awesome, but it would have definitely been interesting to see them take a more unique slant on hell than the predictable fire, chains and brimstone. The Doom3 engine would do green marble proud, as well.

Well don't get me wrong, I absolutely loved the Hell areas in Doom 3 - just pointing out what I noticed was missing ;-)

I really don't miss the Baron of Hell as much as everyone else seems to. If they had simply called it Baron of Hell would everyone say they miss the Hell Knight?

I kind of miss summaries of progress. I'd be amused if you got an email via PDA after each level saying your % kill, % items and % secret. Maybe even your time vs par time.

I was hoping for more "using the environment", such as devices you could use to aid in fights (maybe make a wall squish, a bridge retract, turn on electricity to broken wires, etc). The area where you dispose of the toxic waste is extremely cool.

I miss the Baron, because of its more "cliché" demon appearance. The Hell Knight is awesome, but I had hoped there would be a Baron that looked a little more like the old Baron and HK. That and the possibility that a Baron could have had a slightly different behavior or attack. It doesn't have to be a fully faithful recreation of the old Baron's attack - the old imp doesn't pounce on you like the new imp does for instance and the Tentacle Commando is like a variation of the Chaingunner.
If they made the Baron a Hell Knight with hooves, a more "goatish" head and with a slightly different attack (I kinda had the idea of a Baron that could fling a rain of small, green plasma balls at you instead of just the usual plasma projectile), it'd have been really awesome.

I miss the summaries too, but I can live without them, the "using the environment" was also a thing I was disappointed with. I had definitely expected something like it to be in the game - the GUI interface on interactive computers had potential to enable you to do all sorts of things to the environment, but they didn't really use it.

I remembered another thing that was missing: the bookcase textures from Doom 2 - not that I miss them. They wouldn't really fit in as well imo. I would kinda assume that PDAs would work like the "books of the future" - instead of purchasing a book, you purchase a text download to your PDA or something like that :-P

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Hmm...Well the PE is AWOL, but the arachnotron can be passes off as trites, the SM can be the Vagary, the Baron could be the guardian...

Just my $.02 on the monster issue...

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I haven´t played Doom3 yet (saving money to upgrade my computer for it), put my impression is that half of the items are absent in Doom3. Can anybody confirm this? Only 2 types of armour (normal and shard), 2 types of health, etc...
And the powerups, Berserk is obviously there, I also saw pics of Supercharge and an Invisibility powerup, but what about Megasphere, Invuln, Goggles, Biosuit...?

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^^^The Megashpere is sorta there in multiplayer

- Secrets.

The game has very few items that you see but cant get to until you do something to unlock them. Theres a couple of items locked in cabinets that you need codes for, and towards the end theres a couple of things you can use computers to acess; but its not the same as the supersheres on catwalks and really high elevators.

I miss looking for little "problems" with wall and then finding out there was stuff in there .

I also miss little switches that activated stuff you cant see, and have to kind of search for to figure out what happened.

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I really hate the hellknight design, it wouldve been much better the old and memorable baron of hell, as u say, its a lot more hellish, the hellknight looks more as an extraterrestiral id4 monster than a hell spawn, if uve guys made it to hell entrance in doom3, ull probably seen those two statues standing beside the ladder, well, those two thins make a much better impression than any monster in the whole game, thats the way monsters should have been, well, saying all this, i still think doom3 is, in my taste, one of the best games ever done, its really freaky and sick, oh i love it.

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Technician said:

The archvile cannot revive the dead.

???!?!?!?!!?

I thought he did, but then again dead bodies dont stay for more than 3 seconds so you cant REALLY know

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Wobbo said:

^^^The Megashpere is sorta there in multiplayer


On a screenshot I saw what looked like Supercharge (blue sphere that gives you + 100 health), the Megasphere was a tan sphere that set health and armor to 200 each.
So the powerups like Berserker and Invis are only available in Multiplayer?

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The helmet, which was supposed to conceal the marine's identity. Even though I understand that id wanted to show off what great details they have on the marine's face, I prefer the marine starts off the game with his helmet on, and the helmet would be destroyed piece by piece and slowly reveals his true face as the player receives damages.

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Tetzlaff said:

On a screenshot I saw what looked like Supercharge (blue sphere that gives you + 100 health), the Megasphere was a tan sphere that set health and armor to 200 each.


Unfortunately, they call this blue sphere "Megasphere" now. Of course this is nitpicking but.. WHY THE FUCK CAN`T THESE GUYS FIRE UP THE ORIGINAL DOOM AND HAVE A LOOK AT THE ITEM NAMES? This would have taken them 1 or so minute. Now the fans have to mess around with a blue megasphere! :(


@DSM/Wobbo: If we listed every single trigger and texture from the original Doom, that didn´t make it into Doom3, we could sit here until the end of time. This is way too much nitpicking, IMO. :)
And by the way: There are some green armors that are hard to reach (on slim catwalks and so on..)

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dsm said:

- No Pain Elemental, oh well.


I don't think that's a bad thing :)

The Lost Souls in Doom 3 are annoying enough, let alone something spewing them out of it's mouth.

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in the lower excavation sector, theres an armor and some plasma ammo hidden ( you can see it when you're going underground to find the key that is needed to open the door ( where theres a asian scientist hidden in the pipes )
to get it, you need to open the locked door, go trought , exit the building and then lock to your left ( in the dark zone when the imps starts to climb on your right )
and you will find a ladder there and a sliding door.

so bad you dont get "you'found a secret level!" or something like the old quake and doom series..
so you dont know if you missed something or not :/

since its complex, I will try later to take a screenshot heh :P

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- No marines impaled on spears, neither the motionless ones or the ones that twitch, although Doom 3 has those ripped open torsos that twist and turn in agony (which I find pretty cool at that).


There was that one guy impaled on the ceiling when you first fight wraiths.

I must be the only person who isn't throwing a fit about the stupid Baron of Hell.

The original Baron of Hell and the Hell Knight WERE THE EXACT SAME SPRITE (but different color)!! IT'S JUST A STUPID NAME!

The Baron was not that hard anyway. He just had a little more health than a Hell Knight. (In fact the Hell Knight was just a knockoff Baron made for Doom 2 so that they could say they added X-number of new monsters. He really wasn't new at all.)

And there are secrets in this game. Listen hard. When a voice says "over here" or "follow me" or "help me" something like that, they are trying to lead you to a secret.

Usually when the screen goes all red and your guy freaks out, a secret has been triggered somewhere. It's usually extra health, armor, or ammo.

Just because at the end of each level a screen doesn't pop up telling you the percentage of kills, secrets, and items you got, doesn't mean there are no secrets.

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Rusk said:

Just because at the end of each level a screen doesn't pop up telling you the percentage of kills, secrets, and items you got, doesn't mean there are no secrets.


Yeah, but the point about secrets is that you like to know if you found them. If you never get a message about them, it could easily be some normal stuff that was placed a litte less obviously. You´ll never know if the designer wanted a particular place to be a secret or just a normal place to put some stuff.

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Right at the end before you fight the CyberDemon there are guys impaled on stuff everywhere. Theres one dude who's decapitated, no arms or legs and he's squirming around. Very cool, it actaully felt like a Doom game!

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Deathmatcher said:

Yeah, but the point about secrets is that you like to know if you found them. If you never get a message about them, it could easily be some normal stuff that was placed a litte less obviously. You´ll never know if the designer wanted a particular place to be a secret or just a normal place to put some stuff.


I agree entirely. To me a "secret" is truely extra. By that I mean that you should be able to run through the game without getting any item which is intended as secret. The game can still be tough, ammo can run out, but it must be possible. A secret might make one particular tough spot easier by upping your health a bit, or providing enough ammo for a couple more kills. A lot of people seem to think there is too much ammo anyway (I see people bragging about having over 100 shells all the time), but it's the thought that counts.

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We don’t have the "face hud," in doom 1 the face turned towards the direction that it was being attacked from, it didn't matter much in doom 1 but if that was implemented in doom 3 it would have been very helpful.

Plus non of the "hell" stuff was brought in. Non of those Candlebras no Marble pedestals with still beating hearts on it, very few people chained to walls with various parts of their bodies ripped off no "organic ground" or "skull buttons" no skyline.

Hell was devoid of zombies except on a few occasions. No "vines" on the walls, they incorporated the huge organic limbs but the smaller vines are gone. Hell didn't seem to have very many monsters in it; this may just be me I don’t know. I don't think that there were any caco demons, revenants or pinkies in hell. Could be mistaken. And no "teleporters" except for the ones to exit the level.

To be blunt I think ID just copied Blizzard Diablo's interpretation of hell and turned it into first view. Not that that’s a bad thing.

and finnally, there are no secret levels and there are no reference easter eggs to IDs other games.

Thats just my 2 cents.

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Black Hand said:

no skyline.

[..] and finnally, there are no reference easter eggs to IDs other games.



-There is a skyline of mars city when you look out of the windows. It looks great, in my opinion.

-Have a look at the easteregg thread, there are numerous references.

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Deathmatcher said:

@DSM/Wobbo: If we listed every single trigger and texture from the original Doom, that didn´t make it into Doom3, we could sit here until the end of time. This is way too much nitpicking, IMO. :)
And by the way: There are some green armors that are hard to reach (on slim catwalks and so on..)

what in the fuck are you talking about?

Both me and DSM are talking about CALSSIC GAMEPLAY ELEMENTS, certainly not nitpicking about minor details (like the difference between a megashpere and a Supercharge... as you just did IN THE SAME POST)

Secrets were a big part of the fun in doom, not a minor thing

As for green armors or anythign else i only noticed on little secret, underneath a ladder in the mines; the rest of the secrets in the game were just hiding stuff in poorly lit areas, or underneath stuff you can crouch to... not the smae thign as exploration in doom

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That´s true, having a "you found a secret area!" message and a sound cue triggered when you find a secret is much more rewarding then just finding some stuff in a dark corner that may or may not be intentionally hidden there.

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the secrets I'm talking about are not just crap in a dark corner.

I'm talking about specific sound que's leading you somewhere, and a wall moving or a secret door with bonus items hidden behind it.

There are plenty of those in Doom 3. Especially early in the game.

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The only thing I wish was in the game was that the marine should be wearing a helmet (like someone else mentioned). But, I suppose people would say it would look like a Halo rip off..... even though Halo's helmet rips off the original doomguy's.

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Deathmatcher said:

-There is a skyline of mars city when you look out of the windows. It looks great, in my opinion.


I was refering to hell.

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Wobbo said:

what in the fuck are you talking about?

Both me and DSM are talking about CALSSIC GAMEPLAY ELEMENTS, certainly not nitpicking about minor details (like the difference between a megashpere and a Supercharge... as you just did IN THE SAME POST)


I never claimed that I am not a nitpicker! Everyone of us is, sometimes. And DSM said that he missed the marb faces and the book textures. You said you would have liked little switches that activate things. I´d say, a thread entitled as this with these things being discussed could very well be called nitpicking.

And you don´t have to be pissed off by this. There´s nothing bad about a little nitpicking.. :)

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